Languish.org

i'm not sure how well known the East Indiaman Götheborg is. It's a replica of a ship that sank on the return voyage from China in 1738 just outside the harbour of Gothenburg. It's one of the largest wooden sailing ships around today.

The replica has been sailing since 2005 and has made on China voyage and a lot of shorter voyages. It's right now on the outward leg of a new voyage to China.

I applied to join as a deck hand for the leg from Oslo to London and today I was accepted. I'm over the moon right now, I will be getting to sail on a square rigged ship over the North Sea.

That sounds awesome :cool:

When are you making the trip?

Cool. Good luck.

Remember:  one hand for the ship, and one for yourself.

Sounds like quite an adventure, even if you just end up on mess duty.

That is super cool! That is absolutely something I would enjoy, so I understand why you're over the moon :cheers:

I have a bunch of questions:

What sort of qualifications do you have? How big is the crew? How long is the journey expected to take? When is it happening? Do you have any details on what will you be doing specifically?

But yeah, super cool :)

Here are a few pictures I just googled. Gorgeous :wub:

(https://gotheborg.com/bild/departure3.jpg)

(https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2016/05/000_B83YF-1024x640.jpg)

(https://images.vastsverige.com/publishedmedia/yzu531ar1x4842t5zyd7/gotheborg_Sara_St_Clair_Renard_CMYK.gif)

This is extremely cool.  :smoke:

Experience of a lifetime, grats  :cool:

Wow, that is amazing!

Congrats on beginning your journey to becoming a pirate!

Very cool. Enjoy!

Quote from: Jacob on June 12, 2022, 10:57:01 AMWhat sort of qualifications do you have? How big is the crew? How long is the journey expected to take? When is it happening? Do you have any details on what will you be doing specifically?

No qualifications at all. I'm from a family of seafarers and fishermen, but that ended in the mid 80's. I'm brought up by the sea, but haven't had anything to do with it since I was a kid. I'm borderline land lubber.

The crew is 25 (real) sailors and 50 deck hands (me).

It's 7 days sailing and 4 days in London. One or two days in Oslo beforehand probably, haven't gotten the details.

30/7 to 11/8.

I will probably be (shout out to grumbler) doing mess duty and pulling ropes and polishing tar or something. It might be that they need money (I'll pay about 1000€) so I'll just be a glorified passenger or something, I don't know.

I looked this up the last time they were out a few years ago, a Facebook friend had volunteered. Then Corona hit and I just forgot about it. Last week the same friend posted that his wife was joining so I looked it up again. Apparently still places left aboard so I signed up and today I got the response. I barely believe it and somewhat suspect some IT problem and that they'll call and tell me it's a mistake.

I wanna read about a keel hauling in the news.

Quote from: chipwich on June 12, 2022, 12:29:25 PMI wanna read about a keel hauling in the news.

It's not so traumatic now that ships have modern antifouling paint.  It still wouldn't be a doddle, though.

Anyway, I find the ship's design to be very interesting.  It's clearly a ship made when sailing ships were moving from the heavier ships with extreme tumblehome and relatively short masts to taller masts.  Look how far down they had to place the outriggers that hold the standing rigging (rigging the hold up the mast).  I also am a bit puzzled by the lack of a forecastle.  Transitional designs are always more interesting than mature designs.

The story of her loss is also interesting.  The phenomenon that led to her loss wasn't scientifically explained until 1905 (ironically, by a Swedish scientist, Vagn Walfrid Ekman).

Tell us more grumbsy! As always very interesting.

Will the menu be hardtack and grog?

Very cool! Congrats! :)

At least some of the pine for the decks came from a distant relative's land.

Very, very cool.

Quote from: Threviel on June 12, 2022, 01:11:25 PMTell us more grumbsy! As always very interesting.

The original Götheborg was lost by grounding on a well-charted rock that the captain and navigator were aware of and avoiding.  Suddenly, the rudder stopped biting and the ship drifted downwind onto the rock.  The captain argued that the ship had hit "dead water" and so he was not responsible.  "Dead water" is a phenomenon that sailors have know about for centuries, but which was dismissed as mythology by scientists.  It means that the ship suddenly loses control and even is sometimes slowed, stopped, or pushed backwards by some force no one can see. 

The Swedes investigated on and off but couldn't find anything until their scientists were shown a long-duration bit of dead water and they took temperature and salinity samples.  It turns out that dead water is caused by cold, fresh water flowing into a bay or harbor so strongly that it doesn't mix with the denser salt water and forms a layer on top of the salt water that can have different currents, waves, etc from the water below it (just as air does to the water below it) and so the sailors are seeing one thing (the surface layer) but being acted on by the lower layer in a way completely different than what they expect based on what they see.

It's just a kind of neat little story about how science couldn't solve a problem until scientists actually listened to those who'd experienced it, rather than dismissing the witness statements because they didn't conform to what was already known.  Science in the 19th Century didn't have thousands of grad students trying desperately to prove the conventional wisdom wrong in order to secure a tenure-track job.

Thanks grumbs, very interesting.

Video on what I'll be doing:

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 12, 2022, 01:19:45 PMWill the menu be hardtack and grog?

With a side of rum and sodomy.  And lash for dessert.

The ship is completely white, so I guess I'll have to do with the sodomy and the lash. Also seems to be a lot of women aboard so question mark on the sodomy  :weep:

:(

There are some men who will indulge you even if women are available, you know.

Made it all the way back from China then sank at the harbour.... Ouch.

Quote from: Tonitrus on June 13, 2022, 01:46:42 AM

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 12, 2022, 01:19:45 PMWill the menu be hardtack and grog?

With a side of rum and sodomy.  And lash for dessert.

Grog is made with rum. :nerd:

So... The family wants to join me in London. Wife and two kids 5 and 8.

I looked at some hotels, but I don't know London. The ship will be in Canary Wharf and they will want to be there from the 7th to the 13th or something.

What areas should we be looking at for hotels? Budget some 1000 £, preferably on the cheap end.

Canary Wharf is a bit dull for children but probably nicest area in east.  That said with things like the DLR and Elizabeth line, you can easily get to Canary Wharf so could end up staying somewhere closer to Central London though prices will go up. :blush:

Thanks, and please assume that I'm a country hobo that's never been outside Bumfuck, Sweden. I really don't have a clue about London.

What is DLR?

Can I assume that any tube station makes travel easy? Are some lines to be avoided?

I assume that they'll be doing stuff around places whilst I have to work at the ship for a few days. They don't necessarily have to be close by.

This might be good for basic city orientation: https://www.frommers.com/destinations/london/planning-a-trip/orientation

And maybe overly detailed basics on tube stations: https://freetoursbyfoot.com/how-to-use-the-london-underground/

DLR is the Docklands Light Railway and until Elizabeth line opened main 'tube-like' line for East London. I say tube-like as it is more of an elevated tramway and like some metros in Germany, many have no ticket gates but require you to remember to tap out. Same system though as all of TFL (tube, bus and rail lines in city).

I'd say yes to your thoughts on tube station, though my general preference has always been to be near a few different lines (or station with multiple lines) for ease of travel. I'm not sure in central london any lines have to strictly be avoided.

As a tourist, I either stayed north of Hyde Park (near to Paddington station) or on the Strand. north of Hyde Park was sort of out of the way but Paddington makes easy to get a few places plus pretty easy to navigate to Notting Hill or roundabout to South Kensington with Natural History museum and Science museum. Strand is much more central but may come with higher hotel price. Been over 7 years since I came as a tourist. :D

I also found this which also recommends Southbank

https://www.visitlondon.com/where-to-stay/where-to-stay-in-london-with-kids

I'd ignore the Greenwich and Crystal Palace/Forest Hill suggestions unless money is the main object as those are all fairly far from main London attractions so would require a bit of a trek in. Though Greenwich is very close to Canary Whar.

Thanks, much appreciated.

That sounds awesome, though check on your navigator if the East Indiaman heads to America ... wrong direction. :P

Also: play Return of the Obra Dinn as preparation. :P

I've never been there but I've heard Greenwich is really nice.
It's high on my list for next time I've a day to kill in London.

Quote from: Threviel on June 13, 2022, 04:11:28 AMThanks, and please assume that I'm a country hobo that's never been outside Bumfuck, Sweden.

So the caravanning around France was all a lie?  :o

That sounds very fun.

QuoteAs a tourist, I either stayed north of Hyde Park (near to Paddington station) or on the Strand. north of Hyde Park was sort of out of the way but Paddington makes easy to get a few places plus pretty easy to navigate to Notting Hill or roundabout to South Kensington with Natural History museum and Science museum. Strand is much more central but may come with higher hotel price. Been over 7 years since I came as a tourist. :D

Yeah - the other point is that West/North of Hyde Park is maybe a bit out of the way of some other sites unless you're mainly doing the museum bit of South Ken and palaces. I think around the Strand is better for a more general London trip - South Bank, Bloomsbury, Soho, Covent Garden, St Paul's/the City etc.

I think Greenwich would work as an alternative slightly lower-key base (and it's close to Canary Wharf) but that would be a very maritime focused ending to a very maritime holiday - so you might want a break :lol:

This sounds like an amazing couple of weeks. Deckhand on a tall ship, then family vacation in London.

Can you sneak the wife aboard at some point? Do you have your own cabin?  :P

Be careful of how close together central London tube stations are. It is easy to walk a longer distance underground, spend time on a crowded train and on re-emerging at the surface find that you are 500m from your starting point.

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 13, 2022, 07:39:50 AMThat sounds very fun.

QuoteAs a tourist, I either stayed north of Hyde Park (near to Paddington station) or on the Strand. north of Hyde Park was sort of out of the way but Paddington makes easy to get a few places plus pretty easy to navigate to Notting Hill or roundabout to South Kensington with Natural History museum and Science museum. Strand is much more central but may come with higher hotel price. Been over 7 years since I came as a tourist. :D

Yeah - the other point is that West/North of Hyde Park is maybe a bit out of the way of some other sites unless you're mainly doing the museum bit of South Ken and palaces. I think around the Strand is better for a more general London trip - South Bank, Bloomsbury, Soho, Covent Garden, St Paul's/the City etc.

I think Greenwich would work as an alternative slightly lower-key base (and it's close to Canary Wharf) but that would be a very maritime focused ending to a very maritime holiday - so you might want a break :lol:

But if you are near Paddington, you can take Elizabeth line and Bakerloo to get you central. If hotels cheap enough vs Strand might be worth that bit of inconvenience.

Quote from: Josquius on June 13, 2022, 07:10:07 AMI've never been there but I've heard Greenwich is really nice.
It's high on my list for next time I've a day to kill in London.

It is nice but more for a 2nd/3rd or later trip to London.

Quote from: garbon on June 13, 2022, 09:19:53 AM

Quote from: Josquius on June 13, 2022, 07:10:07 AMI've never been there but I've heard Greenwich is really nice.
It's high on my list for next time I've a day to kill in London.

It is nice but more for a 2nd/3rd or later trip to London.

Josq has been to London a few times, it's just he doesn't suggest a meet-up with other languishites. :sad:

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2022, 08:14:38 AMBe careful of how close together central London tube stations are. It is easy to walk a longer distance underground, spend time on a crowded train and on re-emerging at the surface find that you are 500m from your starting point.

I've found that investing the time to figure out what busses to take is almost always superior to taking the tube when touristing in London. Less interminable walking in crowded tube stations and a much better view of the city.

Quote from: Jacob on June 13, 2022, 10:01:06 AM

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2022, 08:14:38 AMBe careful of how close together central London tube stations are. It is easy to walk a longer distance underground, spend time on a crowded train and on re-emerging at the surface find that you are 500m from your starting point.

I've found that investing the time to figure out what busses to take is almost always superior to taking the tube when touristing in London. Less interminable walking in crowded tube stations and a much better view of the city.

I've mixed feelings about busses in central London as traffic can make it burdensome. But as you say may be easier to navigate at times than some of the tube stations that are rabbit warrens.

I would agree for a core portion of central London that walking is best plan.

Quote from: Jacob on June 13, 2022, 10:01:06 AMI've found that investing the time to figure out what busses to take is almost always superior to taking the tube when touristing in London. Less interminable walking in crowded tube stations and a much better view of the city.

Yes - plus buses are more fun (sit at the front, top deck).

Although as a train geek I would take a Crossrail train just to see a new tube(-ish) line which only opened a few weeks ago. But I would, on any international trip, go and see a new-ish metro line because I am tragic :weep: :ph34r:

Riding the tube I find to be quite a fantastic experience in itself for those not used to metros.

Quote from: mongers on June 13, 2022, 09:31:34 AM

Quote from: garbon on June 13, 2022, 09:19:53 AM

Quote from: Josquius on June 13, 2022, 07:10:07 AMI've never been there but I've heard Greenwich is really nice.
It's high on my list for next time I've a day to kill in London.

It is nice but more for a 2nd/3rd or later trip to London.

Josq has been to London a few times, it's just he doesn't suggest a meet-up with other languishites. :sad:

I'm like the SAS.
I get in.
Pop pop pop.
I get out.

The DLR is a driverless system; so if you are quick you can get the seat at the front and pretend to be the driver    :yeah:

Your kids might like that Threviel...I know i still do  :Embarrass:

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 13, 2022, 07:26:39 AM

Quote from: Threviel on June 13, 2022, 04:11:28 AMThanks, and please assume that I'm a country hobo that's never been outside Bumfuck, Sweden.

So the caravanning around France was all a lie?  :o

You know what they say about assumptions...

Quote from: Berkut on June 13, 2022, 08:04:54 AMCan you sneak the wife aboard at some point? Do you have your own cabin?  :P

I'll check if the cockpit is free.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 13, 2022, 11:23:35 AMThe DLR is a driverless system; so if you are quick you can get the seat at the front and pretend to be the driver    :yeah:

Your kids might like that Threviel...I know i still do  :Embarrass:

Sounds awesome!

Threviel I am super jealous.  Sounds like fun.

Somehow I think about 2 years ago I fell into a deep Youtube hole of sailing videos.  There's a whole bunch of channels of people who post videos of their sailing adventures.  I am now a guy who lives 1000s of km away from the ocean who wishes he was a sailor.

Remember the Poop Deck is not what it sounds like.

Never throw up over the on the upwind side.

Only let your closest friend hold you from behind at the bowsprit Titanic style.

It's good to see that they take safety very seriously.  It'd be even cooler if they flew the Jolly Roger and made everyone talk like a pirate, but what they have is pretty damn cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7ox8u7Kas

Hur Ostindiefararen Götheborg byggdes del 3

It all looks very sound and high quality except that ridiculous pine they're using for the decks.  Where did they get that shit?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2022, 09:21:39 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7ox8u7Kas

Hur Ostindiefararen Götheborg byggdes del 3

It all looks very sound and high quality except that ridiculous pine they're using for the decks.  Where did they get that shit?

:rolleyes: Yi the pine expert.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2022, 09:21:39 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7ox8u7Kas

Hur Ostindiefararen Götheborg byggdes del 3

It all looks very sound and high quality except that ridiculous pine they're using for the decks.  Where did they get that shit?

I'm not sure what your objection is.  What is ridiculous about the pine that they used?  Do you see something there that tells you that the pine is particularly "shitty?"

I like the idea of Yi as a pine snob.  I can imagine him going around critiquing people's wood.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2022, 09:21:39 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp7ox8u7Kas

Hur Ostindiefararen Götheborg byggdes del 3

It all looks very sound and high quality except that ridiculous pine they're using for the decks.  Where did they get that shit?

Sweden historically has boasted a non-trivial amount of pine forests.

Portugal used pine for its fleet. Athena forest of Leiria was planned in the 13th century for building material (and a dune stop)

Seems Brainiac is the only one who got the joke.

Which is, I'm talking smack about his distant relative who supplied the pine.

Thought he were making a new girl reference.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/8/19/enhanced/webdr06/original-26275-1457483945-4.jpg?downsize=600:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 13, 2022, 10:28:17 PMSeems Brainiac is the only one who got the joke.

Which is, I'm talking smack about his distant relative who supplied the pine.

 :lol:  :blush:

That's really cool, Threviel! If you enjoy the experience, I know other people who also do sailing taking paying passengers with them. In their case they do smaller routes around W. Europe (Between Scandinavia, British Isles, Netherlands, the English Channel area and the Iberian peninsula) and from there to the Caribbean and back. You can book shorter stages of around 10 days or full legs of a month or more. They use much smaller vessels (late XIX/early XX century cargo ships), though, so navigation will be a bit rougher.

In case you (or anyone else) wants to check them: https://fairtransport.eu/sail-along/ (https://fairtransport.eu/sail-along/)

Quote from: HVC on June 13, 2022, 10:43:51 PMThought he were making a new girl reference.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/8/19/enhanced/webdr06/original-26275-1457483945-4.jpg?downsize=600:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)

Have you mixed up Yi and garbon again? /smh

I'm in hard training and dieting now, I need to drop about 5kg in 6 weeks. Today I'm at 84 kg, which is 15 kg or so above my ideal weight.

I'm in fairly good shape, I swim two to three times a week and I can probably run 10 km in under an hour.

I will increase my swimming to 4 times a week and see if I can run inbetween and at the same time run a calorie app and eat as little as possible.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2022, 07:16:25 AM

Quote from: HVC on June 13, 2022, 10:43:51 PMThought he were making a new girl reference.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/8/19/enhanced/webdr06/original-26275-1457483945-4.jpg?downsize=600:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)

Have you mixed up Yi and garbon again? /smh

When do I make New Girl references?

So is there going to be a Languish London meet to honour our intrepid Swedish voyager?

Quote from: garbon on June 14, 2022, 09:59:19 AM

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2022, 07:16:25 AM

Quote from: HVC on June 13, 2022, 10:43:51 PMThought he were making a new girl reference.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/8/19/enhanced/webdr06/original-26275-1457483945-4.jpg?downsize=600:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)

Have you mixed up Yi and garbon again? /smh

When do I make New Girl references?

You have seen it, right?

Quote from: mongers on June 14, 2022, 11:20:15 AMSo is there going to be a Languish London meet to honour our intrepid Swedish voyager?

The family is meeting up and I won't be popular if I suggest that. But you could visit the ship.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2022, 12:48:24 PM

Quote from: garbon on June 14, 2022, 09:59:19 AM

Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2022, 07:16:25 AM

Quote from: HVC on June 13, 2022, 10:43:51 PMThought he were making a new girl reference.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/8/19/enhanced/webdr06/original-26275-1457483945-4.jpg?downsize=600:*&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto)

Have you mixed up Yi and garbon again? /smh

When do I make New Girl references?

You have seen it, right?

I mean, sure I watched all of it.

Equipment wise I'm buying some stuff.

An Vangedal (possibly some kind of Danish scout knife) knife with an attached marlinspike.

Blundstone boots to use onboard. 

Armour for my phone that has strings attached. Nothing can be allowed to drop from the masts onto deck.

Plane tickets for the family (ffs that's expensive)

Still looking for a hotel.

What exactly is the purpose of a marlinspike?  Does it help with tying and untying knots?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2022, 02:22:16 PMWhat exactly is the purpose of a marlinspike?  Does it help with tying and untying knots?

Possibly, I'll get to know in a few weeks.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2022, 02:22:16 PMWhat exactly is the purpose of a marlinspike?  Does it help with tying and untying knots?

It's for getting swordfish drunk.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 18, 2022, 02:22:16 PMWhat exactly is the purpose of a marlinspike?  Does it help with tying and untying knots?

It's primary purpose is to pry apart the strands of a rope in order to splice in another rope.  It's also useful to pry apart knots and is a symbol of deck seamanship in the USN (boatswain's mates have to make rate before they can wear one).

So, we ended up with a far too expensive hotel, Millennium Gloucester Hotel London Kensington. It seems to be in a nice neighbourhood and within walking distance of a lot of stuff. We made the mistake of order plane tickets before hotels, the Saturday to Sunday night kosts about 5000 SEK (500 freedom money). Changing plane tickets costs 3000 SEK so we ran with it. We could have chosen an hotel less central, but everyone we thought was ok was still really expensive so the cost of being central is that Sat-Sun and about 3000 SEK more for the whole week. I guess inflation will make it sound cheap in 10 years or so.

The plan for London is:

Wife, her brother with wife and our kids will come to London on the 7th. The ship arrives on the 8th and I will spend at least 3 days with the ship doing stuff. They will do the regular touristing, watching the ship come in, visiting the ship, Tussauds :yuk: , Tower and so on.

On the 11th as I debark the brother in law returns home and we will be alone until we go home on the 14th. So 3-4 days. Our flight leaves at 20:45, so one day there as well.

What I want to see:
Imperial war museum (wifey enjoys this stuff as well, It's often me that drags her away)
British museum

What wife wants to see:
Notting Hill/Portobello Road (planned for the day we go home)

We plan on walking from the hotel to Harrods, then over Kensington Gardens, Buckingham palace, Parliament, Westminster and stuff. That ought to take a day even if the walk itself is about an hour.

Any other great tips?

How old are the kids? Maybe a day trip to Oxford? You can tell them that it's where they shot the Harry Potter films.  :nerd:

Quote from: The Larch on June 19, 2022, 09:52:21 AMHow old are the kids? Maybe a day trip to Oxford? You can tell them that it's where they shot the Harry Potter films.  :nerd:

5 and 8. They've seen the first few films, but I think Oxford and the countryside is a better adventure for the camper. This might be the one time we go to London as a family, we'll try to make the best of London.

Any tips for food? The oldest one is very picky. Almost only eats Pizza, pasta if the sauce is white, tacos and Peking Duck. Sometimes we get him to eat fries. He is very staunch and will go apathetic before he eats most foods.

So it's almost only junk food for the whole week. What chains should we go to and what to avoid? Where can we eat on the cheap?

I'd hardly call Oxford "countryside".

I think the IWM was recently renovated - I've only been once but thought it would be really good for kids (and I don't mean that in a negative way at all). The new-ish permanent Holocaust galleries may not be for a family trip but are, I think, incredibly well done.

Just as an FYI I'd recommend making sure you have time for the queue. It used to be a really easy open museum and I haven't been in a year but I went to an exhibition and the covid/bag search entry way was pretty busy. The queue moved quickly but it took time - that might not be an issue now as I imagine there's less covid stuff at the entry. But worth bearing in mind.

In terms of food tips (I have a shared spreadsheet with friends to collect tips for all over town :blush:):
IWM - I'd recommend popping up towards Lower Marsh just south of Waterloo and a short walk/maybe one stop on the bus. On most days (not Sunday - not sure about Saturday) there's a food market on the street. Particularly recommend Himalayan Dumplings and Naija High Street for Nepalese dumplings or Nigerian. There's also a good coffee shop on the street (Coleman Roasters, I think). At the end of the street there's a park next to a pub which often has a pretty decent jerk stall too.

British museum - This is Bloomsbury so there's loads of places in the immediate area that are good - if not you're not far from Soho or Fitzrovia which have plenty of options. Depending on when you're there there's a really good coffee shop about a block away on Store St (Store Street Espresso, originally). If you're looking for a cheap snack/lunch and sit in a park there's normally food stalls just north of the museum on the University of London campus area.

Notting Hill/Portobello Road (planned for the day we go home) - Less sure about this area but I'd recommend popping into Books for Cooks which is, as it says in the name, a cookbook shop. What's great, though, is they have a test kitchen/cafe where they cook recipes from their massive collection of books - it changes every day based on what's in Portobello Market and it's been a few years but was incredibly cheap/good value when I was last there.

Harrods, then over Kensington Gardens, Buckingham palace, Parliament, Westminster and stuff - Food deserts and I've no idea what people do here or where they eat.

Go to Hamleys if you want to spoil the kids.

Thanks guys, good tips!

So this is maybe so obvious maybe there's a reason you're not doing it, but the Tower of London was definitely worth it.

Buckingham Place was nice and interesting, but the Tower would beat it all to hell.

Yeah, I've been to London before, in '95 or '96, I remember that the IRA had their last bombing campaign going. Class trip at the end of 9th grade. Boat that time as well, there was a ferry from Gothenburg to somewhere around London.

Some friends and I skipped Tussauds that time around also. We also missed the Tower.

I want to go there, but time is limited and since they will be going when I'm with the boat it seems wasteful that they'll go again with me. Hopefully I'll have some free time in port that I can spend with the family, but I don't know if that's the case. So the most obvious touristy stuff will already be done when I join.

Quote from: Barrister on June 19, 2022, 11:20:05 PMSo this is maybe so obvious maybe there's a reason you're not doing it, but the Tower of London was definitely worth it.

Buckingham Place was nice and interesting, but the Tower would beat it all to hell.

For children, sure.

On British museum,I was just there on Saturday and using the back entrance is a much quicker way to get in than the endless line in the front.

Natural History museum is probably more fun for young kids than the British museum; you may want to consider it.

I would want to check out The City and Canary Wharf and check out the money guys.

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 20, 2022, 04:02:15 AMNatural History museum is probably more fun for young kids than the British museum; you may want to consider it.

Dinos!  :w00t:  :wub:

Although they moved Dippy out :weep:

I think they have a big whale now :hmm:

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 20, 2022, 04:47:34 AMAlthough they moved Dippy out :weep:

I think they have a big whale now :hmm:

Dippy? :unsure:

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit/exhibitions/dippy-returns.html (https://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit/exhibitions/dippy-returns.html)

Apparently Dippy is back.

:w00t:

My training and dieting has gone quite well this week. I've been swimming about 10ish km and I've been digging out for a support wall in the garden. Lots of exercise and lots of calories spent.

At the same time I've been dieting, something I normally would never do, focusing on eating fat and proteins and staying over 1000 calories below my daily spend.

So far I've dropped from 84,6 last Monday to 81.9 today. A velocity of 1-1.5 kg a week which, with 5 weeks remaining, ought to get me to around 78 kg at departure.

Something like this is super useful on any working boat/sailboat.

https://www.leatherman.com/surge-3.html

Sounds awesome Threviel. What an experience.

There's tons to do in London, even if you just stick to a 5km of your hotel. For your walk, as well as Kensington Gardens, Hyde Park is huge and right next door to you. St James's Park is lovely and worth a walk through if you are planning on going in the direction of Buckingham Palace, Westminster Abbey or the Houses of Parliament. You have three major museums on your doorstep - I would explore one or two of them rather than schlepp over to the British Museum.

Depending on how old your kids are, I'd recommend a bike ride (on a Sandandar (or Boris) bike) along the Thames back to your hotel if you are going to Tower of London or anywhere else along the river. All segregared and you get to see quite a few sights.

Thanks guys, great ideas.

I want to bring a thick long pocket book on something maritime/naval from the 18th or 19th century. Any tips on a great history of the East India Company? Or a great book on the Napoleonic wars? Or something else?

Abrey/Maturin and Hornblower are on my shelfs, so I guess non-fiction...

The Anarchy by Dalrymple

I was just looking at that one, seems like a great book, but not naval enough for me in this case.

N.A.M. Rodger's Command of the Ocean?

Some book on the Dutch raid on Medway(IIRC) in 17th century might be nice also, seeing as I'll sail in those waters.

Quote from: Maladict on July 03, 2022, 12:39:56 PMN.A.M. Rodger's books on the Royal Navy? You'll want the second one

That's the one that I was after, I'd forgotten all the details :cheers: . Any more ideas?

Quote from: Threviel on July 03, 2022, 12:40:02 PMSome book on the Dutch raid on Medway(IIRC) in 17th century might be nice also, seeing as I'll sail in those waters.

Come to Amsterdam to see the trophies  :cool:

Rodger's book also contains the Medway raid. I've got nothing else, not something I've actually read at least.

I really enjoyed the Medway raid memes when the Dutch navy were in the Thames to dock earlier this year :lol: :ph34r:

John Elting's Swords Around a Throne here (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B77AGWW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) is what you want.  It covers the Grande Armee from the leadership to the training to the foods they ate and everything in between.  Chockablock full of anecdotes and Elting's dry humor (he was a cavalryman before WW2 and then moved up the ranks to colonel during the war so he speaks dogface).  Divided into lots of small chapters so you can set it down easily on short notice.  It's one of my favorite books and I've probably read it five times and used it as a reference dozens of time.

Sounds like a great book that I'd enjoy immensely, but perhaps a tad bit too non-nautical for this trip.

How is London when it comes to cash? Am I expected to pay with cash like in Germany or can I use my Mastercard everywhere like in civilised countries?

Quote from: Threviel on July 04, 2022, 03:58:03 AMHow is London when it comes to cash? Am I expected to pay with cash like in Germany or can I use my Mastercard everywhere like in civilised countries?

Should be pretty easy to pay with a credit card almost anywhere.

Yeah card more or less everywhere, generally contactless.

My assumption is anywhere that is cash only is into tax evasion :lol:

Quote from: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 04:06:34 AMYeah card more or less everywhere, generally contactless.

My assumption is anywhere that is cash only is into tax evasion :lol:

Is there something like Bizum in the UK? With it you can pay electronically and evade tax at the same time! Dodgy businesses love it.

Quote from: Threviel on July 04, 2022, 03:58:03 AMHow is London when it comes to cash? Am I expected to pay with cash like in Germany or can I use my Mastercard everywhere like in civilised countries?

I basically never use cash since COVID debuted. Only time it has come up recently are some small indie restaurants but usually well signed so you would know in advance.

Also, in my experience, barbers. I think it's because it's easier to tip in cash? :hmm:

I haven't been to a barber in years...never in the UK.:shutup:

Am I expected to tip in restaurants? I'll only be going to kid-friendly places.

Service charge is normally included. You can tip extra but I don't think there's any expectation, unless service charge isn't included (and then I think probably 10-15% is normal).

Normally no need to tip in cafes or pubs. I think if it's counter service it's not necessary, if it's table service then either there'll be a service charge or it's normal to tip.

So I'll have to use my street smartness to figure out when? Great, this is going to go horrible. :weep:

On the plus side I'm a stupid tourist and I'll be forgotten i 2 minutes.

I read somewhere that kids are not always welcome, can I bring them into a pub in the touristy parts of London and expect them to be accommodated?

I'd say I generally don't tip anymore. Always unclear if they'll have credit card machines that ask you for a tip or not - so I typically don't add anything, particularly if a servie charge is listed.

Apparently we made am mistake when we booked our flights. My son got the title "Mstr" which means that I can't update his passport info due to gender. Mstr probably being mistress or something retarded.

I'm trying to call BA Swedish support number, but the line is just busy. Apparently BA has no other means of contact, but I've also tried to message them on Facebook. Expect no answer...

We have no titles in Sweden and this shit just infuriates me. Fucking medieval idiots.

I think Mstr is Master which is a (very formal) title for a boy. I'd check with BA but I don't think you need to change anything.

Quote from: Sheilbh on July 05, 2022, 04:58:07 AMI think Mstr is Master which is a (very formal) title for a boy. I'd check with BA but I don't think you need to change anything.

Their website won't let me put in his pre-flight passport details because of the gender and I can't change anything with regards to title. Could probably be fixed at manual check-in but I want this fixed beforehand. I won't be there when they check in.

Mstr/master is pretty standard for little boys. My son always gets this automatically.

I think my savings account I've had since I was a kid still says that, it's why I don't have the heart to close it.

If you're close to the airport I'd go physically to it and look for a BA office so you can talk directly with someone rather than an automated reply system, which is incredibly frustrating if you need something done urgently.

Airport is 1.5 hours away in a direction we're rarely going, so no go on that one.

Incredibly strange that it doesn't work if Mstr is a male title.

I just don't understand why I had to put in title in the first place. Who cares? What is the point? Why have some weird irrelevant shit that can only cause problems?

I'll guess I'll have to call the British support service number and try to get them to understand my issue. Say something like "Oi Guvnor, my flight info is bad, it seems your automated system takes the young master for a girl!"

I called BA. Apparently Heathrow has the same issues as Arlanda in Stockholm. Covid ended and no-one was prepared so long queues and waiting times.

Also I could barely understand what the automated recording was saying, low sound quality and some weird dialect. She spoke about rumors of problems at Heathrow this summer, but I didn't understand.

And if I'm not flying within a month I can fuck off, they are busy.

BA has a chat that can be accessed when logged in and I got to talk over text to a brit. Everything was cleared up without issue.

:cheers:

Glad it's sorted :w00t:

Going on holiday in a couple of weeks and absolutely dreading the airports. Everyone I've spoken to who's been in an airport (all the main London ones, Amsterdam, Dublin, Athens) have said it's absolute carnage at the minute. My assumption is that, like the airlines, they fired loads of people during the pandemic and are now surprised people still want to travel.

I'm planning to arrive with plenty of town but it sounds like a bit of a shitshow - definitely in the London airports I'm afraid :(

Well, fuck me then. We'll be flying at 20:45 on a Sunday. A long long day for the kids and I'm not looking forward to spending the evening in queue hell.

Our local airport is ok, but the main Swedish hub at Stockholm is also hellish right now.

Apparently the Norwegian one is doing ok, they spent covid investing in more modern and more efficient equipment to handle security checks. Seems to be a European wide pattern where the air ports that invested during covid are doing well now.

Investigating a bit it seems not exactly horrible at Heathrow, but pretty bad. Sundays seem to be very busy and August is apparently holiday time for Brits.

Heathrow chaos as hundreds lose luggage and airlines 'fish passengers out of queues' (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/heathrow-chaos-hundreds-lose-luggage-27386400)

https://mightygadget.co.uk/heathrow-airport-busy-times/ (https://mightygadget.co.uk/heathrow-airport-busy-times/)

We're flying out at 20:45 and at least three hours are recommended to come through security and check-in. I want to give it two hours more, I'm working the day after and I will not miss my flight. Of course we can't check in to early either.

So I guess we'll be at Heathrow from 15 to 21 or so.  :bleeding: We'll probably get through in 30 minutes or so forcing us to spend 5 hours in the terminal. Time to check som lounges.

Heathrow does have lounges you can pay out of pocket for.

Or maybe I should say that at least once upon a time, they did. :blush:

Naval reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/014198032X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1657028394&sr=1-3

Quote from: Berkut on July 05, 2022, 08:40:16 AMNaval reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/014198032X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1657028394&sr=1-3

Yeah, but that's a preyty hefty volume to be carrying around on a cruise.

For Age of Sail naval reading, nothing tops the Bolitho series.  To Glory We Steer is probably the best, but Command a King's Ship and Passage to Mutiny are right up there, and can be slipped into a pocket when necessary.  In passing, I'd note that "Alexander Kent" is a pseudonym for Douglas Reeman, if you've read any of his books.

Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 08:46:37 PM

Quote from: Berkut on July 05, 2022, 08:40:16 AMNaval reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/014198032X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1657028394&sr=1-3

Yeah, but that's a preyty hefty volume to be carrying around on a cruise.

For Age of Sail naval reading, nothing tops the Bolitho series.  To Glory We Steer is probably the best, but Command a King's Ship and Passage to Mutiny are right up there, and can be slipped into a pocket when necessary.  In passing, I'd note that "Alexander Kent" is a pseudonym for Douglas Reeman, if you've read any of his books.

How would you compare the Bolitho series the Hornblower and Aubrey-Maturin series?

Quote from: Jacob on July 05, 2022, 09:14:44 PM

Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 08:46:37 PM

Quote from: Berkut on July 05, 2022, 08:40:16 AMNaval reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/014198032X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1657028394&sr=1-3

Yeah, but that's a preyty hefty volume to be carrying around on a cruise.

For Age of Sail naval reading, nothing tops the Bolitho series.  To Glory We Steer is probably the best, but Command a King's Ship and Passage to Mutiny are right up there, and can be slipped into a pocket when necessary.  In passing, I'd note that "Alexander Kent" is a pseudonym for Douglas Reeman, if you've read any of his books.

How would you compare the Bolitho series the Hornblower and Aubrey-Maturin series?

I liked them a lot better than either, though the Horblower series can be excused a bit because it is so old and almost classic.  The Bolitho books are not as self-indulgent as the O'Brian books, though that's understandable as they are aimed at a different audience.  The Bolitho books are action novels, not character novels.

Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 08:46:37 PM

Quote from: Berkut on July 05, 2022, 08:40:16 AMNaval reading:

https://www.amazon.com/Rules-Game-Jutland-British-Command/dp/014198032X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1657028394&sr=1-3

Yeah, but that's a preyty hefty volume to be carrying around on a cruise.

For Age of Sail naval reading, nothing tops the Bolitho series.  To Glory We Steer is probably the best, but Command a King's Ship and Passage to Mutiny are right up there, and can be slipped into a pocket when necessary.  In passing, I'd note that "Alexander Kent" is a pseudonym for Douglas Reeman, if you've read any of his books.

Kindle is your friend.

I did consider Castles of Steel, seeing as I'll sail in those waters. But it's a bit dated and perhaps a bit too much book.

Good book ideas so far, this'll ruin me.

Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 10:09:38 PMI liked them a lot better than either, though the Horblower series can be excused a bit because it is so old and almost classic.  The Bolitho books are not as self-indulgent as the O'Brian books, though that's understandable as they are aimed at a different audience.  The Bolitho books are action novels, not character novels.

Thanks :cheers:

So... BA cancelled our flights. A huge flurry of panic later we got some new ones, worse fly-out time and somewhat better home.

Travelling in these post-covid times seems to be more adventurous than I'm used to. I hope there'll be no more of this shit.

It's getting pretty bad here.  Lots of flights getting cancelled - baggage going missing for days, etc.

As for the long term, it does not look good.  The number of pilots needed is expanding rapidly.  None were trained over the last couple of years.  World wide a large percentage of pilots are over 40.  The trend lines do not look good for people looking for convenient air travel.

On the bright side, less air travel means less carbon emissions - so if you are a glass half full kind of guy... 

I'm reading up on Heathrow and it's quite clear that Heathrow has the possibility to become a huge problem. There are reports of BA flights going around with only luggage that's been missed in the chaos.

We'll pack everything necessary for a few days in cabin bags and I guess we'll have to buy clothes if our luggage gets lost. Going home is not as critical, but it sure wouldn't be fun if our luggage takes a month.

My training and dieting s going ok. I've dropped about 5 kg (0.8 stone) down to 79.5, which is good enough I guess. Still two weeks and some to go but today is my last day at work and my vacation starts which usually means a bit more wine and snacks than usual. I aim for 77 or so, but it's doubtful if I'll get there.

I haven't been able to swim 4 times a week cause my shoulder is bothering me, but three times is good enough. I have been continuing with my stone retaining wall around the garage, but I'm thinking of pausing that, I do not want to get my fingers between two huge rocks right now.

I am probably in the best shape I've been in my adult life, swimming two-three times a week for two years have done wonders.

Quote from: Threviel on July 15, 2022, 12:47:35 AMI'm reading up on Heathrow and it's quite clear that Heathrow has the possibility to become a huge problem. There are reports of BA flights going around with only luggage that's been missed in the chaos.

We'll pack everything necessary for a few days in cabin bags and I guess we'll have to buy clothes if our luggage gets lost. Going home is not as critical, but it sure wouldn't be fun if our luggage takes a month.

Heathrow is indeed going through a really rough patch this summer, and having tons of issues with lost luggage. There are pics around the net of their luggage processing sites absolutely swamped. I wouldn't check in anything that you counted on for the trip.

I've had a flight via Heathrow cancelled twice in the past week now. Seems quite a mess.

It's chaos. Apparently the smaller London airports are okay (I hope so - I'm flying from one tonight  :ph34r:) but, from friends, Heathrow and Gatwick are just broken right now.

Didn't Heathrow put a cap or a moratorium on flights until September in order to try to rein in the situation?

I flew in to Gatwick, and the whole process of customs + luggage retrieval took about 15 mins...

Ouch, should have taken Ryanair then. We, perhaps wrongly, assumed that BA would handle it better and it felt better to go with a serious airline since costs were about equal.

Luggage handling is more of an airport thing rather than an airline thing, so it'd depend to which airport Ryanair would take you. Stansted, I assume?

Quote from: The Larch on July 15, 2022, 07:16:45 AMLuggage handling is more of an airport thing rather than an airline thing, so it'd depend to which airport Ryanair would take you. Stansted, I assume?

Stanstead IIRC, but irrelevant now, tickets are paid and we won't change.

Quote from: The Larch on July 15, 2022, 07:16:45 AMLuggage handling is more of an airport thing rather than an airline thing, so it'd depend to which airport Ryanair would take you. Stansted, I assume?

Yeah. Although I think BA fired a third of their staff during covid and now can't find enough staff.

I think it's similar with the airports - my impressions are the busier/more international/long-hauly are struggling more. They fired loads of people - who need a background check - now they don't have enough staff and they can't quickly hire people because the background checks take time (and are taking longer than normal because all the airports and airlines are trying to hire thousands of people at once).

Basically the entire travel industry (in the UK):

QuoteMe sowing: Haha fuck yeah!!! Yes!!

Me reaping: Well this fucking sucks. What the fuck.

 :lol:

Yeah, nice comeuppance there

I'm off in about two hours. Nothing new has fucked up and I'm not sick so everything is well so far. I don't expect to be able to update in anything but small texts, no computer where I'm going.

Have a good trip! :cheers:

 :pope:

This sounds awesome, hope it's going well.

:cheers:

Take lots of pictures if you can!

Have fun!

And remember, if you see a mermaid it's just a manatee and you're lonely :P

Have fun!  :)

Yargh.

That's pirate for have fun.

Thanks guys!

Yesterday was Rammstein in Gothenburg. God damn that was a good show, but it always bothers me how they stole that little melody in "Du hast" from Cyber Empires.

Me and wifey had Ethiopian food before the show. It was a nice little central place and a lot of seemingly immigrants from the Horn was there also. We had some dish with 6 different foods and that bread/pancake thingy. One of the best meals of my life and made all the better for me being able to check in Eritrean and Ethiopian beer to untappd. It's the second time since the kids that we were out alone.

I've said goodbye to the family, and now I'm having a coffee waiting for the bus to Oslo. Or Moss rather since I'll be staying tonight at a friends place.

Quote from: Threviel on July 29, 2022, 04:42:11 AMbut it always bothers me how they stole that little melody in "Du hast" from Cyber Empires

Pff, Zombie Nation ripped off Lazy Jones for their Kernkraft 400 song. :P

Original:

Copy (from 0:41):


(And infests sports arenas to this day :D )

Though I guess in this case it's justice, because Lazy Jones also included bits of 99 Red Balloons, and Visage's Fade To Grey.

Anyways - bon voyage! :)

Ship arriving this morning:
https://twitter.com/antonhowes/status/1556554769736634368?s=21&t=rHBzYSSSjPDnjpQGUVkZXA

No mutiny or keelhaulings one hopes  :D

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 08, 2022, 04:12:37 AMShip arriving this morning:
https://twitter.com/antonhowes/status/1556554769736634368?s=21&t=rHBzYSSSjPDnjpQGUVkZXA

 :cool:  :cool:  :cool:

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 08, 2022, 04:33:14 AMNo mutiny or keelhaulings one hopes  :D

Still hoping Threviel leads a mutiny and takes on the pirate life.  :pirate

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 08, 2022, 04:12:37 AMShip arriving this morning:
https://twitter.com/antonhowes/status/1556554769736634368?s=21&t=rHBzYSSSjPDnjpQGUVkZXA

Very nice. :cool:

I was in on the starboard side of the foremast topgallant under the bridge.


Will return with full report when I'm home.

Looking forward to it :cheers:

Looks very cool:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZn1z3YWYAAGNtx?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Did she fire her guns this time? Or is that from a different visit?

I think a different vision - it was very sunny today - but it's for the ship being open for people to visit.

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 08, 2022, 04:04:55 PMLooks very cool:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZn1z3YWYAAGNtx?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Looks like something supernatural is invading London. Call the doctor.

Quote from: Josquius on August 09, 2022, 05:28:10 AMLooks like something supernatural is invading London. Call the doctor.

(https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/653530/capsule_616x353.jpg)

I came home Sunday evening at 23 or so and started working the day after. This has been hectic...

Rammstein in Gothenburg was a damn good show, they really gave it all. Can recommend.

The day after Rammstein it was time to say goodbye to the family and take a bus to Oslo. Was not very fun and a few tears were shed.

In Oslo I stayed with a friend and drank beer, we also had some some sight-seeing before I joined the ship. That was a nice city in a nice location.

On joining the ship I got allocated to the starboard watch, which mean that my watches were 00-04 and 12-16 using the standard merchant ship watch system (and not the Swedish system) with fixed and permanent watches without dog watches. Also I got a green scarf.

In port we had to climb the shrouds up to the first platform, to acquaint us with the safety procedures. The ropes in the ship were all made of hemp, but the safety lines were nylon and they were available everywhere to attach our safety harnesses to.

What's not immediately obvious, but a big problem for me, is that the shrouds do not go to the base of the platform but rather to the center of it, or perhaps better described as to the top of the lower mast (the mast being divided into the lower mast at the bottom, the top mast and the topgallant).

This can be seen on the main and mizzen mast in this picture: Götheborg (https://digitaltmuseum.se/011014897355/tre-seklers-flaggskepp-maj-2008-ostindiefararen-gotheborg-och-briggen-tre/media?slide=0)

So for the last 3 meters or so one has to climb at an outward angle, hanging with straight arms to save the muscles. And then you have to climb up on the platform. I'm very sensitive of heights and this scared me out of my mind when they described it. But then I was dragged up as number two into the mast and didn't really have time to chicken out, I just had to go. Once in the shrouds I was just focusing on the climb and it actually went really well. All my swimming and dieting beforehand paid off and it was quite easy actually.

We were recommended to try and sleep before our watch and I tried. If you get the chance to sleep in a hammock on a ship in a small room with 14 other people then for fuck's sake ask the experienced ones for tips. My first attempt was absolutely horrible, I got my bedding wrong and it was cold on my back and it was just absolutely horrible. And I didn't dare move because we had the hammocks setup wrong and I was lying pressed up against the feet of some girl. This probably gave me some inflammation in the back and for the first half of the trip I could barely sleep because of the pain. But once I learned how to use the hammock it was actually very nice and the second half of the trip went well.

The first watch was spent tidying up the ship and learning the ropes (I have learned so many expressions, for example what a slacker really does). The command language on the ship is Swedish, so archaic Swedish commands had to be learned for rope handling and general sailoring. The watch leaders all speak english normally and translate readily, but the primary command language is Swedish. So everyone had to learn commands like "Kom så vackert" for when to let some slack in the rope in order to attach it. But that's not much of an issue since the english terms are often just gibberish and might just as well be Swedish for any non-nautical person. (If someone tells you to "tighten the starboard fore topgallant clew garnet" they might as well tell you to "sträcka bukgårdingen till bramseglet på styrbord sida").

To be continued

Great experience! :pirate

:cheers:

Cool. :cheers:

Threviel on his first day:

(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/298346319_5317648788304309_2717236868850165488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=-MEqoD_VYqIAX-qwK6Z&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=00_AT-Y-fkLPv00b_R0X6HBW9ptM_wsYRFJ8k674DOWEf5ilg&oe=630290BF)

We got to watch this movie on a movie night, the real old sailors were hard men.


An old captain filmed the last time Peking went around the Horn in his youth and lived to tell about it in 1980, real sailors in real situations. Must have been a hard life, I especially appreciate the dude going down the side of the sail to the next yard, holding the sail between his thumbs and fingers.

On a three watch ship, what do they call the third watch?  :hmm:

Did you ever set the topgallants and studding sails?

Were you told to feed the *googles English term* keelson? :)

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 18, 2022, 03:00:35 AMOn a three watch ship, what do they call the third watch?  :hmm:

Did you ever set the topgallants and studding sails?

Starboard, port and midship.

We took down the topgallant mast when leaving Norway, due to the hard weather. Put them up again going into London.

The studding sails have rarely been used on Götheborg, mostly on one leg of the first China journey when they couldn't fill up with diesel before heading out from India. In 2008 the sail warehouse burned and the studding sails haven't been repaired since.

Quote from: The Brain on August 18, 2022, 03:02:39 AMWere you told to feed the *googles English term* keelson? :)

The keel pig (Swedish literal translation of keelson) was unfed by me at least.

Watches could be one of three things.

You could be one of two helping out in the galley, mostly dishes and setting up food or tea/coffee every two hours.

It could be BURR, which was a rotation of fire watch, lookout, rudder 1 and rudder 2, one hour each.

The ship has a fire watch going through every space every hour every day.

As a lookout we stood in the front and informed the mate about whatever was in front of the ship. If the spritsail (in Swedish called a "blinda" - "blindsail") is set you cannot see in front of the ship from he deck, then the lookout has to climb the bowsprit and there's a great seat there where you can sit and just look around and enjoy life.

Rudder 1 and 2 just steer the ship according to instructions from the mate.

But most often you were on the work watch. In daytime that often meant setting and taking down sails, hauling on the braces to set the yards at correct angles and so on. In the night it was much the same, but with less sails there was much less to do. So nights were often spent under a red light with our watch leader telling us stuff and drawing on the deck to explain. She was an experienced boat builder and sailor and we could spend 4 hours on sailing rigs, whales, stars or whatever. Sometimes just lying on the deck telling stories. We spent one cloudless watch looking for the Andromeda galaxy.

Quote from: Threviel on August 18, 2022, 02:16:27 AMWe got to watch this movie on a movie night, the real old sailors were hard men.

An old captain filmed the last time Peking went around the Horn in his youth and lived to tell about it in 1980, real sailors in real situations. Must have been a hard life, I especially appreciate the dude going down the side of the sail to the next yard, holding the sail between his thumbs and fingers.

That's an amazing movie. The man's a great cameraman and narrator. And the skipper seems to have been a pretty great guy.

Starboard watch (https://www.facebook.com/gotheborgofsweden/photos/a.105112014014/10160503025524015)

I'm the one closest to the mast.

Quote from: Threviel on August 17, 2022, 11:35:52 AMWhat's not immediately obvious, but a big problem for me, is that the shrouds do not go to the base of the platform but rather to the center of it, or perhaps better described as to the top of the lower mast (the mast being divided into the lower mast at the bottom, the top mast and the topgallant).

This can be seen on the main and mizzen mast in this picture: Götheborg (https://digitaltmuseum.se/011014897355/tre-seklers-flaggskepp-maj-2008-ostindiefararen-gotheborg-och-briggen-tre/media?slide=0)

So for the last 3 meters or so one has to climb at an outward angle, hanging with straight arms to save the muscles. And then you have to climb up on the platform. I'm very sensitive of heights and this scared me out of my mind when they described it. But then I was dragged up as number two into the mast and didn't really have time to chicken out, I just had to go. Once in the shrouds I was just focusing on the climb and it actually went really well. All my swimming and dieting beforehand paid off and it was quite easy actually.

You are now one of those few people who can answer the question "what are futtock shrouds?" :thumbsup:

And futtock shrouds (that's what I meant, you might as well learn puttingvant, the technical terms are all nonsens to landsmen) are scary, but in practice not a problem to climb in.

On my first real day watch at sea there was a stiff gale on the North Sea. By the beginning of the watch the officer on watch estimated Beaufort 6, by the end it was more, one experienced deck hand said 8. I have no clue. It was raining more and more throughout the watch.

The previous watch had taken down the fore topsail from the yard for repairs and put it on the top in the fore mast. It was our job to take it down to the deck. I volunteered to go up together with two other newbies and a few experienced sailors. This was my third time up in the masts and I thought it would be excellent to kill my fear of heights. And it was.

It was sheer and utter joy, to stand there and feel the ship as it heaved and dove into the waves from a height of 20-25m whilst you were doing stuff together with other people. The waves were impressive from my perspective, but in reality they were just a few meters high. It felt like the mast could break, but of course it never did, and as the weather worsened we had to realise that we would never get a line down to take the sail down with. So we had to pack the sail on top of the radar, situated under a protecting structure, so that it wouldn't block the signal.

We struggled with this and in all we spent perhaps 2 hours up there before we got it fixed up good enough. I don't think I've ever been as elated by doing scary stuff as when I stepped back down on the deck. Endorfin explosion. That was probably the best time I had on the ship and that experience is exactly why I wanted to sail on the North sea.

After the watch we sat and talked about it on gun deck and the waves were horrible enough that some gift from the Chinese embassy fell down and broke in a thousand pieces. Quite an experience.

Great story - but I have to get glasses - I read "some git" and it was only after reading the smashing into pieces that I realized my mistake.  :D

After that the winds died down and we got nice weather the rest of the trip. Unfortunately we only got one good day of sailing, otherwise the winds were against us.

The next exiting thing happened a few days later. We were cruising along nicely with a few sails set, but with the engine running also. In general the stay sails were almost always set since they stabilise the ship. The fore and main sails were also set at this event.

When the watches changed both watches form up by the capstan and we go through a formal watch change. At noon the weather was very nice, shorts and t-shirt nice, but there was some rain coming in. This is where the inexperience of the crew plays a part, because what was coming was not just some rain but a squall (error 1: the sails should already have been down). We started by changing into rain gear (error 2: we should have done that before) and slowly preparing to take down some sails. Then bam, 20 minutes in it's over us and it one hell of a squall (from my perspective, probably nothing for a real sailor). In a second wind speed goes up considerably and the whole ship starts to lean over to one side, we need to get the sails down and get them down really fucking fast. So, we started with the mizzen topsail (error 3: Should not have started with the mizzen topsail). Whilst we are doing that the assistant to the watch leader mentions that she's afraid the ship is going to tip over (no, it wouldn't). I'm getting my adrenaline up and we're working really fast to get the sails down.

When taking down the mizzen topsail most ropes are on the sun deck, the high deck in the aft of the ship. We're standing there in one hell of a noise, the sails are banging about like crazy. We get the sail under control and then the sheet to the mizzen staysail breaks. The sails is only connected at the two fore connection points and the sheet line becomes more less a whip sweeping over the sun deck. Once that is clear to everyone we get everyone safe and hide away aft and watch as the sheet whips and wooden splinters and radar parts start (not many, but still) flying in the air. We're thoroughly fucked and in a bad situation and our watch leader seems overwhelmed.

Unbeknownst to us all man on deck has been ordered and the other watches comes up at more or less that second and they quickly start to take down the stay sail. We're saved. Then all of us hurry up and take down the rest of the sails and just about exactly when we're finished the sun comes back and the squall is over.

That was tense. It looked a lot more serious from our perspective than it was. Had we started with the stay sails it would have been nothing. The mate could not change course either because one of those high ways of the seas was just beside us and it wouldn't look good to cross into that. If it had been serious they would have done something. All in all a glorious experience.

The rest of the watch was spent setting sails again and bracing the yards.

Amazing that it's such an epic adventure even for the seemingly absolutely piddling journey of Oslo to London.

Quote from: Josquius on August 20, 2022, 07:59:01 AMAmazing that it's such an epic adventure even for the seemingly absolutely piddling journey of Oslo to London.

Yeah, this trip really delivered beyond my dreams. That's why I wanted the North Sea, I wanted to experience bad weather and adventures and I got that in just the right amount. I only had 6 pairs of socks and I would not have made it if it would have been wet and dreary all the way. So if anyone wants to do the same thing, bring 1.5 pairs for every day at sea.

The days before London we were told that the City had said no to firing the guns and saluting the Tower. The weather was really nice with very little wind so the day before entering the Thames we hauled out the guns and fired a broadside for fun. The photographer got a drone circling and hopefully got some nice pictures out of it.

Hopefully updates with more pictures of the saluting will come.

After that we hove to and took a swim in the North Sea. Some 20 degrees in the water, it was really nice.

We were told that we were to man the yards going under Tower bridge. Our watch leader made the schedule so our watch got to man the best mast, the fore mast. The we drew lots on who would get to man it and I got in. Then we drew lots on which yard to man and I drew the winning lot, the topgallant yard.

The topgallant had been taken down the entire trip and just put back the same day, so I had never been so high up. Luckily we were two and the other person was the coolest girl I've encountered for many a year. Very calm, very nice and very encouraging (also very pretty by the way). She was very experienced and I had the utmost respect for her. Since I trusted her completely it felt safe to go up beside her, had it been anyone else I would have traded my place for a lower yard.

So that's how I ended up in the fore topgallant yard going under Tower bridge and spending half+ an hour looking out over London from some 40-45 meters.

My family, having arrived at the hotel at about 1 the previous night, of course were late and almost missed it, just seeing us leave.

And that's about that with sailing adventures, I did not go up again, I was done with it. I'll probably post an update on the London :wub: adventures with the kids.

See fellow deck hand https://www.instagram.com/exploredannesweden/ (https://www.instagram.com/exploredannesweden/) for some nice pictures of the leg. I'm actually in one or two pictures.

https://www.instagram.com/josefx3m/ (https://www.instagram.com/josefx3m/) was the official photographer and has some pictures. On the night picture with the stars I'm the one closest to the mast.

https://www.instagram.com/theswedishshipgotheborg/ (https://www.instagram.com/theswedishshipgotheborg/) The official instagram for the ship. Has some nice pictures of the London part.

That's all kinds of awesome. :)  :bowler:  :cool:

Some general notes and observations on the trip and on London

HMS Belfast looks much older in design than I would have thought from pictures. She is a WWII ship built in 36-39 but to me looked more 1910s than I imagined beforehand.

Camden market is well worth a visit, the kids loved it with all the weird foreign food.

Meal Deals in the shops is very nice. It can be a very healthy lunch or, I suspect ore often, it can be a sandwich with crisps and a coke.

British candy and chocolate, unlike French or German, is good and we should have bought more.

Rich Tea biscuits is the shit when it comes to biscuits for coffee and tea.

London is the friendliest city ever, it's like being in the French countryside but I can also understand what people are saying.

Pub food is horrible, bangers and mash was just pukeworthy. Tasteless sausages and a mash you could build a house with.

Pubs in general are very nice, order at the bar and pay at the same time. No need to wait for snotty servers ignoring you.

When it comes to food in general it's a miracle that the Brits are not all obese. Unhealthy with lots of fat. White bread everywhere, otherwise you could eat something fried or deep fried. 

London in general fits my style. Everything was obvious and easy to understand.

British parks have more in common with prison yards than parks.

We went to Heathrow in very very good time, expecting long queues. No queues and everything went very well, meaning we spent 5 hours inside Heathrow.

I had time to read my book on the bus to Oslo. That's it.

Sea sickness does not look like fun, I wonder how they deal with it on navy ships.

Navy rum is hard to get hold of. Bought a gill measure cup at Greenwhich and then had a hard time getting hold of rum to use it with.

Going into a public toilet together with my kid in Primrose park there were two gay-looking guys coming out from the same stall looking sheepish.

Scotch eggs are amazing, absolutely amazing.

Camden Market :x

Quote from: Threviel on August 25, 2022, 12:18:39 AMMeal Deals in the shops is very nice. It can be a very healthy lunch or, I suspect ore often, it can be a sandwich with crisps and a coke.

:lol: Yes :ph34r:

QuoteBritish candy and chocolate, unlike French or German, is good and we should have bought more.

I agree on British sweets - I think with desserts it's something Britain does quite well. I like French and German ones but the American ones I've tried are inedible (Reese's :x).

QuoteRich Tea biscuits is the shit when it comes to biscuits for coffee and tea.

Love Rich Tea - especially as a dunker.

QuoteLondon is the friendliest city ever, it's like being in the French countryside but I can also understand what people are saying.

Wut? :o That seems very strange.

QuoteWe went to Heathrow in very very good time, expecting long queues. No queues and everything went very well, meaning we spent 5 hours inside Heathrow.

This is a mistake I've made. I went for a quick holiday to Bulgaria and to see a friend in Greece - which was very exciting as my first trips out of the UK since covid hit. For every leg there's been no issues at the airport and I've just arrived 4-5 hours early :blush:

Although my flight from Athens was delayed for two hours because there was an air traffic restriction for some reason.

QuoteScotch eggs are amazing, absolutely amazing.

Yes. The good home-made/pub ones that are freshly cooked with a soft egg in the middle are great.

I recently had someone tell me that like coke, they've only had Reese's once as they knew otherwise they would be addicted.

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 25, 2022, 05:33:00 AM

QuoteBritish candy and chocolate, unlike French or German, is good and we should have bought more.

I agree on British sweets - I think with desserts it's something Britain does quite well. I like French and German ones but the American ones I've tried are inedible (Reese's :x).

Yeah, lots of weird crap from the US, but also Mars  which is ok I guess. God damn, looking it up most of the good ones are British. Add the US to the list of bad candy.

Quote from: Sheilbh on August 25, 2022, 05:33:00 AM

QuoteLondon is the friendliest city ever, it's like being in the French countryside but I can also understand what people are saying.

Wut? :o That seems very strange.

Talked a bit about it when I came home and everyone I've talked to agrees. Londoners are nice and friendly, helpful and kind. When looking confused they even volunteer to help. Unlike Paris or especially Germans which are borderline hostile. To tourists that is.

Also the experience the day I manned the ship for visitors. Brits are friendly and funny.

Ohh, and an addendum to the list when thinking about unfriendly peoples. As usual when I'm encountering them I several times noted Spanish tourists behaving badly.

I've always found Londoners to be very friendly too. The main exception being at mainline stations during rush hour...but that is totally understandable...do not bugger about at London Bridge station at 8.45 if you can't take criticism  :lol:

I'm not a fan of rich tea for dunking. Too prone to collapse. A digestive is much better.

Susprised by the comments on London parks. I think they are superb and there are lots of them. I can't think of any other city that comes close.

Pub food in London has gone downhill quite badly in the last couple of years. There are a few good places but not that many in the centre.

Quote from: Gups on August 25, 2022, 08:05:03 AMSusprised by the comments on London parks. I think they are superb and there are lots of them. I can't think of any other city that comes close.

Once you get through the barbed wire and mined approaches, sure...

Or more seriously there's fences everywhere, the parks seemed closed off until you found an entrance. The same with playgrounds, huge fences all around. Not used to that. But yeah, some of the parks were huge. And full of grey squirrels.

Otherwise the parks seemed nice, would probably be nicer if there had been some rain.

QuoteGoing into a public toilet together with my kid in Primrose park there were two gay-looking guys coming out from the same stall looking sheepish.

Gay looking how?
Cum around their mouths?

Quote from: Josquius on August 25, 2022, 08:17:54 AM

QuoteGoing into a public toilet together with my kid in Primrose park there were two gay-looking guys coming out from the same stall looking sheepish.

Gay looking how?
Cum around their mouths?

The well manicured stylish young men with ear piercings and short well kept hair coming hurriedly together out of a public toilet stall without flushing could of course have been anything.

It's probably my country boy imagination trying to create interesting events in the big city.

Quote from: Gups on August 25, 2022, 08:05:03 AMI'm not a fan of rich tea for dunking. Too prone to collapse. A digestive is much better.

Susprised by the comments on London parks. I think they are superb and there are lots of them. I can't think of any other city that comes close.

Pub food in London has gone downhill quite badly in the last couple of years. There are a few good places but not that many in the centre.

My friend you lack the finese of a true dunking aficionado. :tongue:

I've never had a problem with Rich tea, whereas some versions of malted milk biscuits can be rather tricky, unless you cheat and only dunk them in cocoa/drinking chocolate.

Quote from: Threviel on August 25, 2022, 09:10:35 AM

Quote from: Josquius on August 25, 2022, 08:17:54 AM

QuoteGoing into a public toilet together with my kid in Primrose park there were two gay-looking guys coming out from the same stall looking sheepish.

Gay looking how?
Cum around their mouths?

The well manicured stylish young men with ear piercings and short well kept hair coming hurriedly together out of a public toilet stall without flushing could of course have been anything.

It's probably my country boy imagination trying to create interesting events in the big city.

I think he was questioning the 'gay-looking' as story would have been just as clear without that description.

Quote from: mongers on August 25, 2022, 09:16:58 AM

Quote from: Gups on August 25, 2022, 08:05:03 AMI'm not a fan of rich tea for dunking. Too prone to collapse. A digestive is much better.

Susprised by the comments on London parks. I think they are superb and there are lots of them. I can't think of any other city that comes close.

Pub food in London has gone downhill quite badly in the last couple of years. There are a few good places but not that many in the centre.

My friend you lack the finese of a true dunking aficionado. :tongue:

I've never had a problem with Rich tea, whereas some versions of malted milk biscuits can be rather tricky, unless you cheat and only dunk them in cocoa/drinking chocolate.

Rich tea is not suitable for dunking. Its like a glass biscuit, completely immune for a while then suddenly it just shatters.

It's a risk for sure, but I still think it's very good for dunking.

I reckon they were trading football cards and suddenly realised that their behaviour might be misconstrued, hence the sheepishness.

Couple of blokes coming out of the toilet looking sheepish are odds-on snorting charlie.

Damnit, I was hoping for something fun and innocent like sex, didn't even consider drugs.  :(

Maybe one was snorting it off the other's little fella?

So, the video of the trip is up. I'm in it in the background a few times and my bum makes a grand entrance in the bathing scene.

Nice. :)

 :thumbsup:  :bowler: