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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Josephus on January 23, 2020, 11:45:55 AM

Title: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Josephus on January 23, 2020, 11:45:55 AM
Deserves its own thread, no?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on January 23, 2020, 11:50:55 AM
Is it any good, then?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 23, 2020, 12:09:27 PM
all the reviews I have read say yes - definitely good.

Will not know until it airs tonight.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: HVC on January 23, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
didn't reviews also say discovery was good?

I do hope its good, but i'm weary old many picard can carry a show mostly on his own. so I hope the supporting characters will be more integral then what the trailers imply.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on January 23, 2020, 12:25:22 PM
Amazon prime threw an advert for it at me when I tried to watch something else.
I'm tippy-tapping.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 23, 2020, 12:25:46 PM
He looks pretty damn creaky, but I wasn't a fan of the series so I'm not the target audience.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 23, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
didn't reviews also say discovery was good?

I do hope its good, but i'm weary old many picard can carry a show mostly on his own. so I hope the supporting characters will be more integral then what the trailers imply.

Discovery *IS* good! :mad:

The reviews I've said say the new characters play a large part, but it still sounds like the focus is firmly on Jean-Luc.

But I don't think it's meant to be an action show.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on January 23, 2020, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: HVC on January 23, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
didn't reviews also say discovery was good?

I do hope its good, but i'm weary old many picard can carry a show mostly on his own. so I hope the supporting characters will be more integral then what the trailers imply.

I thought Discovery was good too.


I imagine this show will be more cerebral than phaser shooting. Reviewer said that first three shows he's seen, there's very little "spacey S/F" stuff.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 23, 2020, 01:26:10 PM
QuoteWhat does it all mean? A Star Trek less childishly idealistic about the future, a Star Trek about aging and regret and a Star Trek accessible to those who never cared for its sunny trust in technology.

Sounds promising  :)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-star-trek-picard-at-last-a-down-to-earth-emotionally-authentic/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2020, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 23, 2020, 01:26:10 PM
QuoteWhat does it all mean? A Star Trek less childishly idealistic about the future, a Star Trek about aging and regret and a Star Trek accessible to those who never cared for its sunny trust in technology.

Sounds promising  :)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/article-star-trek-picard-at-last-a-down-to-earth-emotionally-authentic/

I have to point out we have had many Star Treks about aging.. Certainly Star Treks 1-6 were heavily about aging and regret, as was Generations and Insurrection.

But then again the author does admit to not really knowing his Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 23, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
I think he was specifically referencing the work where we last saw Picard which was definitely the sort of world the critic described has having a sunny trust in tech.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2020, 02:01:52 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 23, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
I think he was specifically referencing the work where we last saw Picard which was definitely the sort of world the critic described has having a sunny trust in tech.

We last saw Patrick Stewart in Star Trek: Nemesis.  The nemesis in question was Shinzon, a faulty clone of Picard himself who required a transfusion of Picard's blood in order to live.  Oh there was also a Romulan technology that was going to wipe out all life in the Federation.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 23, 2020, 02:33:12 PM
Yes that was the threat which was faced.  And a robot saved the day.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2020, 02:39:59 PM
I watched Discovery on streaming service Crave TV.  But because it was also being shown on cable TV it only came out one day later on Crave.

Looks like they fixed that - ST: Picard is available on Crave the same day.

Nice. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 23, 2020, 04:21:16 PM
Apparently they've changed Captain Picard's favourite drink! :o

[spoiler]Apparently he now orders "Tea, earl grey, decaf"[/spoiler]

Those monsters!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on January 23, 2020, 07:26:12 PM
shocking!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on January 24, 2020, 09:03:56 AM
Quote from: Barrister on January 23, 2020, 04:21:16 PM
Apparently they've changed Captain Picard's favourite drink! :o

[spoiler]Apparently he now orders "Tea, earl grey, decaf"[/spoiler]

Those monsters!

He's old. If he takes caffeine after a certain point in the day, he won't sleep.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on January 24, 2020, 09:04:30 AM
Anyway. Season 1 ep 1 rated five out of five for me. I thought it was very good.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Caliga on January 24, 2020, 10:04:03 AM
I'm rewatching all of TNG and probably the TNG-era movies before I watch Picard. :sleep:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on January 24, 2020, 10:04:24 AM
4 out of 5.

What I liked the most of Star Trek was the episodes had conclusion. This one, not really.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on January 24, 2020, 10:19:19 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 24, 2020, 10:04:24 AM
4 out of 5.

What I liked the most of Star Trek was the episodes had conclusion. This one, not really.

WELL, I think they're taking the episodic route with this one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 24, 2020, 10:23:16 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 24, 2020, 09:04:30 AM
Anyway. Season 1 ep 1 rated five out of five for me. I thought it was very good.

Agreed.  I really like the new Star Trek vibe and the move away from the saccharine universe prior to Discovery. [spoiler]Loved the interview and Picard denouncing Star Fleet for losing its way.
Also love the exposing the fear other storyline.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on January 24, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
Quote from: Josephus on January 24, 2020, 09:04:30 AM
Anyway. Season 1 ep 1 rated five out of five for me. I thought it was very good.


Something bugs me... as the Romulan soldier looks like he's spitting blood that destroys the human android and the gun...  Could have been something else though, maybe some kind of capsule he bit knowing it would be the end.

The rest has been explained in the episode, or will be in the future, so I'm ok with it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on January 24, 2020, 02:46:27 PM
I'll say very good...a 5/5, but was kinda disappointed in that by the end, [spoiler] after seeing that the female protagonist was an android of some sort (so a few minutes in)...and that she had a Data/daughter connection, that this series wasn't going to be "The Wrath of Lal".  :P[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 24, 2020, 03:01:21 PM
So I don't know...

I mean, it was awesome to see Patrick Stewart "back in the saddle" so to speak.  The production values here are quite high - the show looks miles better than TNG ever did.

But it seems... kind of formulaic?  Mystery girl with ass-kicking powers shows up needing help?  This episode wasn't nearly as "cerebral" as we were led to believe.

Although I think I recognized the problem:

QuoteAkiva Goldsman   ...   executive producer (10 episodes, 2020)

https://film.avclub.com/from-the-dark-tower-to-batman-robin-crappy-blockbust-1798264841

There's no chance I'm not watching this, but I'm ready to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on January 24, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Do they generally [spoiler] kill the bad ass girl seeking help? [/SPOILER]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 24, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 24, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Do they generally [spoiler] kill the bad ass girl seeking help? [/SPOILER]

[spoiler]But then there's another one[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on January 24, 2020, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 24, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 24, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Do they generally [spoiler] kill the bad ass girl seeking help? [/SPOILER]

[spoiler]But then there's another one[/spoiler]

[spoiler] Who hasn't sought help. Also explains some of the - she's activating. [/SPOILER]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on January 24, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 24, 2020, 03:01:21 PM
So I don't know...

I mean, it was awesome to see Patrick Stewart "back in the saddle" so to speak.  The production values here are quite high - the show looks miles better than TNG ever did.

But it seems... kind of formulaic?  Mystery girl with ass-kicking powers shows up needing help?  This episode wasn't nearly as "cerebral" as we were led to believe.

Although I think I recognized the problem:

QuoteAkiva Goldsman   ...   executive producer (10 episodes, 2020)

https://film.avclub.com/from-the-dark-tower-to-batman-robin-crappy-blockbust-1798264841

There's no chance I'm not watching this, but I'm ready to be disappointed.

Yeah the episode had some little great moments (his interactions with data, for example, or the character moments with the romulans and even his dog) interspeded with some really trite storytelling. I want to think it's just 'first episode syndrome' and the writers feeling pressured to introduce some thrills to hook audiences from the onset.

The show has Akiva Goldsman, but also a Pullitzer Prize winner (Chabon). Will see who wins out!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 24, 2020, 06:05:21 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 24, 2020, 05:21:13 PM
Yeah the episode had some little great moments (his interactions with data, for example, or the character moments with the romulans and even his dog) interspeded with some really trite storytelling. I want to think it's just 'first episode syndrome' and the writers feeling pressured to introduce some thrills to hook audiences from the onset.

The show has Akiva Goldsman, but also a Pullitzer Prize winner (Chabon). Will see who wins out!

Chabon is out for season 2 (wants to work on getting his movie produced).

Oh I'll definitely keep watching.  I mean I won't watch just anything - I never did watch Enterprise, and I petered out on Voyager, but I'll definitely give this show a good, long try.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on January 25, 2020, 05:15:03 AM
So it's prime time line after the kelvin movies. Interesting.
I see hints of brexit in the message it is giving.

Borg cube is very curious. They're really going for the end of history vibes here.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on January 26, 2020, 12:45:59 AM
Enterprise was slow to start, but became ok by the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: KRonn on January 26, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
This is on Amazon, right? I see also CBS all access or something. I may check it out on Amazon but to be honest, I really haven't watched much of Amazon stuff since getting my first smart TV about six months ago. Some good stuff there but I watch enough TV with other shows.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: ulmont on January 26, 2020, 09:36:26 PM
Quote from: KRonn on January 26, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
This is on Amazon, right? I see also CBS all access or something. I may check it out on Amazon but to be honest, I really haven't watched much of Amazon stuff since getting my first smart TV about six months ago. Some good stuff there but I watch enough TV with other shows.

No, it's on CBS All Access.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on January 26, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
It's on Amazon outside of the US (North America?).
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on January 26, 2020, 11:52:24 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 26, 2020, 11:46:09 PM
It's on Amazon outside of the US (North America?).

It's on Crave TV, not Amazon, in Canada.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on January 27, 2020, 04:40:33 AM
It's on Amazon Prime over here.

I am not saying it does not have promise after Episode 1, but I have already seen the movie Logan, so I am not too thrilled about its TV version.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on January 27, 2020, 07:34:49 AM
Given KRonn is in the US all the rest past ulmont seems like an unnecessary gloat/clarification. ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: KRonn on January 27, 2020, 09:16:30 PM
Quote from: ulmont on January 26, 2020, 09:36:26 PM
Quote from: KRonn on January 26, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
This is on Amazon, right? I see also CBS all access or something. I may check it out on Amazon but to be honest, I really haven't watched much of Amazon stuff since getting my first smart TV about six months ago. Some good stuff there but I watch enough TV with other shows.

No, it's on CBS All Access.

Ok, thks for the info.  :) 
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 31, 2020, 12:32:19 PM
Second episode put more meat on the bones.  I liked the [spoiler]Bulterian Jihad vibe[/spoiler]. 
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on January 31, 2020, 01:42:59 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 31, 2020, 12:32:19 PM
Second episode put more meat on the bones.  I liked the [spoiler]Bulterian Jihad vibe[/spoiler].

It wasn't a "great" episode though. I preferred the first one. But it was a necessary evil episode, full of necessary exposition that's gonna get to the crux of the rising action.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on January 31, 2020, 01:57:01 PM
Agreed. 
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on January 31, 2020, 03:50:21 PM
I liked it. It had less character moments than the first episode, but at the same time the plotting was less in your face and successfully managed to make the conspiracy feel interesting.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: dps on January 31, 2020, 04:59:53 PM
Quote from: Caliga on January 24, 2020, 10:04:03 AM
I'm rewatching all of TNG and probably the TNG-era movies before I watch Picard. :sleep:

Same here, and I'm in no particular hurry about it.  At the very least, I'm going to wait until it's legally available in the US without subscribing to CBS All Access just to check this out.

TBH, while Patrick Stewart seems very happy to be playing Picard again, and that's a very promising sign, I have no faith in anyone to produce good Trek anymore.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on January 31, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
Yeah, by the 3rd season, you know everything about warp core breaches, distortion in the space time continuum, reversing the shield polarity, rotating the shields' harmonics and using the delfector array for something else than it was conceived :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on January 31, 2020, 08:48:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on January 31, 2020, 06:42:35 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
Yeah, by the 3rd season, you know everything about warp core breaches, distortion in the space time continuum, reversing the shield polarity, rotating the shields' harmonics and using the delfector array for something else than it was conceived :P

:lol:

I read once, back in the TNG days, that the writers would frequently write something like:

Riker: "What shall we do Captain?"
Picard: "Jordi?"
Jordi: "Captain I recommend we --Add Science Fiction jargon here--- so we can turn around and gain back the time we lost."
Picard: "make it so.:

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on February 01, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
I'm not sure. My girlfriend has never seen TNG and she is struggling with Picard.

Though to be honest I am a bit too. Trying to remember if some characters that appear have been seen before or not.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 01, 2020, 03:16:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
I'm not sure. My girlfriend has never seen TNG and she is struggling with Picard.

Though to be honest I am a bit too. Trying to remember if some characters that appear have been seen before or not.

Other than Data, i dont' think anyone has appeared from the TV shows. And Data's only been in dreams.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on February 01, 2020, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
I'm not sure. My girlfriend has never seen TNG and she is struggling with Picard.

Though to be honest I am a bit too. Trying to remember if some characters that appear have been seen before or not.

Watching some of the "easter egg" videos on Youtube...it looks like this series is drawing quite a bit not only from the last TNG movie, but also some obscure comic book series (especially some of the characters that he has an apparent history with) as well.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on February 01, 2020, 05:09:49 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 01, 2020, 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
I'm not sure. My girlfriend has never seen TNG and she is struggling with Picard.

Though to be honest I am a bit too. Trying to remember if some characters that appear have been seen before or not.

Watching some of the "easter egg" videos on Youtube...it looks like this series is drawing quite a bit not only from the last TNG movie, but also some obscure comic book series (especially some of the characters that he has an apparent history with) as well.

Makes sense.
The doctor and the black chick both seemed telegraphed as being known characters... But no.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on February 02, 2020, 10:51:48 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
I'm not sure. My girlfriend has never seen TNG and she is struggling with Picard.

Though to be honest I am a bit too. Trying to remember if some characters that appear have been seen before or not.


Probably the only background that would be helpful is watching Star Trek Nemisis

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: dps on February 02, 2020, 11:17:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.

It kills time until the show is available other than on CBS All Access.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on February 02, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: dps on February 02, 2020, 11:17:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.

It kills time until the show is available other than on CBS All Access.

I read that the first episode should now be free on CBS All Access's Youtube channel...but after that, I doubt it.  I don't think Discovery ever has been available elsewhere (in the States anyway).



Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 02, 2020, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: dps on February 02, 2020, 11:17:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.

It kills time until the show is available other than on CBS All Access.

When the season is done, subscribe for a month, it's 6$. Also includes 2 seasons of Discovery.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Threviel on February 02, 2020, 01:48:09 PM
Now and again I get offers to try different services for free, usually for a month. Plenty of time to catch up on what I want to see.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: dps on February 02, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 02, 2020, 11:47:59 AMI don't think Discovery ever has been available elsewhere (in the States anyway).

Hasn't the first season had a DVD release?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 02, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Quote from: dps on February 02, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 02, 2020, 11:47:59 AMI don't think Discovery ever has been available elsewhere (in the States anyway).

Hasn't the first season had a DVD release?
Both seasons have
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on February 03, 2020, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 02, 2020, 10:51:48 AM
Quote from: Tyr on February 01, 2020, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 31, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Watching TNG is always fun but not really prerequisite for Picard.
I'm not sure. My girlfriend has never seen TNG and she is struggling with Picard.

Though to be honest I am a bit too. Trying to remember if some characters that appear have been seen before or not.


Probably the only background that would be helpful is watching Star Trek Nemisis

I would (and did) also re-watch TNG S2:E9 "The Measure of a Man".  It's very relevant to the central conflict.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on February 03, 2020, 06:57:42 PM
Good point
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on February 19, 2020, 03:11:04 AM
No posts in two weeks, I can see why... the show is weird. Lots of interesting ideas and world building, pretty tacky dialogue and lame plotting.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 19, 2020, 07:46:14 AM
We're almost halfway through the season.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 19, 2020, 08:11:52 AM
Per episode, nothing is happening. Last week was just 45 minutes leading to meeting 7 of 9.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on February 19, 2020, 08:31:40 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 19, 2020, 08:11:52 AM
Per episode, nothing is happening. Last week was just 45 minutes leading to meeting 7 of 9.

Last week they  introduced a new character and a new sect of  Romulan culture.  We also learned the details of why Picard left Star Fleet.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 19, 2020, 08:42:26 AM
See! I didn't even remember anything but the last minute!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Maladict on February 19, 2020, 08:47:54 AM
Thanks guys. I'm planning to watch ep.3-4 tonight, which one can I skip?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 19, 2020, 12:38:20 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 19, 2020, 08:47:54 AM
Thanks guys. I'm planning to watch ep.3-4 tonight, which one can I skip?

None.  I have a feeling they will be important in the future.  So far, it looks like the entire season is one big pilot: identify the crew members, establish who are the ennemies.   Mix that with a those of Mass Effect while you go around picking up side quests to recruit new members.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 19, 2020, 02:50:45 PM
Kind of like the first half of the last harry potter film.

A lot of getting stuff ready for the next season.

I'm being patient on this, I'm sure we will be rewarded with two excellent episodes towards the end.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 19, 2020, 08:47:54 AM
Thanks guys. I'm planning to watch ep.3-4 tonight, which one can I skip?

None they are good and important to the world building exercise.  I am not sure what GF is smoking
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Maladict on February 20, 2020, 09:44:51 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 19, 2020, 08:47:54 AM
Thanks guys. I'm planning to watch ep.3-4 tonight, which one can I skip?

None they are good and important to the world building exercise.  I am not sure what GF is smoking

Yes, they were.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 20, 2020, 10:49:29 AM
I am just still bitter that Picard is breaking the Trek formula.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on February 20, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
It's boring, guys. You are allowed to say it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 20, 2020, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2020, 10:49:29 AM
I am just still bitter that Picard is breaking the Trek formula.

Explain
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 20, 2020, 12:12:28 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 20, 2020, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2020, 10:49:29 AM
I am just still bitter that Picard is breaking the Trek formula.

Explain

The episodes are not self contained. There is no fun episode arc, only a season arc.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Habbaku on February 20, 2020, 12:13:00 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 20, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
It's boring, guys. You are allowed to say it.

Yep. My brother dislikes it and he's an ST addict. That's enough for me to steer clear.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 20, 2020, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2020, 12:12:28 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 20, 2020, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 20, 2020, 10:49:29 AM
I am just still bitter that Picard is breaking the Trek formula.

Explain

The episodes are not self contained. There is no fun episode arc, only a season arc.

Discovery is a bit like that too.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on February 20, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
I think that is just Discovery/Picard sharing in the overall trend in television shows that have moved to longer/season arcs instead of episodic plots.  Nothing unique here.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 01:02:54 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on February 20, 2020, 12:48:54 PM
I think that is just Discovery/Picard sharing in the overall trend in television shows that have moved to longer/season arcs instead of episodic plots.  Nothing unique here.


Agreed.  And it helps that I prefer this form of story telling.  I much prefer the Expanse/B5/Discovery season/multiseason arc.  If you want self contained episodes only connected by different things happening to the same people every episode then this is not for you.

If you like more in depth story telling, this is definitely for you.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 20, 2020, 12:13:00 PM
Quote from: Tamas on February 20, 2020, 12:06:22 PM
It's boring, guys. You are allowed to say it.

Yep. My brother dislikes it and he's an ST addict. That's enough for me to steer clear.
patience is required.
Not many sci fi shows were great on their first few episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Liked the last episode.  Even had a contained story within the arc.
Disappointed Seven's not going to be a regular.


Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 21, 2020, 10:15:01 AM
Unsurprisingly, I liked this one.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 02:05:36 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Liked the last episode.  Even had a contained story within the arc.
Disappointed Seven's not going to be a regular.

Same here.  I thought it would end boringly, in a Startrekish kind of way, but I was pleasantly surprised :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 05:42:07 PM
Sorry :(
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Maladict on February 22, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?

Just surprised at people not using spoiler tags for episodes that were released just a day or two ago.
The Star Wars thread looks like the Mueller Report, what's different here?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 22, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?

Just surprised at people not using spoiler tags for episodes that were released just a day or two ago.
The Star Wars thread looks like the Mueller Report, what's different here?

See, I haven't been inside the Star Wars thread because I'm the one guy here who hasn't seen it yet :D

But yeah, fair enough.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 22, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 22, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?

Just surprised at people not using spoiler tags for episodes that were released just a day or two ago.
The Star Wars thread looks like the Mueller Report, what's different here?

See, I haven't been inside the Star Wars thread because I'm the one guy here who hasn't seen it yet :D

But yeah, fair enough.

I haven't seen it either.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 22, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 22, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 22, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?

Just surprised at people not using spoiler tags for episodes that were released just a day or two ago.
The Star Wars thread looks like the Mueller Report, what's different here?

See, I haven't been inside the Star Wars thread because I'm the one guy here who hasn't seen it yet :D

But yeah, fair enough.

I haven't seen it either.
You can live the rest of your life being happy, or you can see it.  Your choice.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 22, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 22, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 22, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?

Just surprised at people not using spoiler tags for episodes that were released just a day or two ago.
The Star Wars thread looks like the Mueller Report, what's different here?

See, I haven't been inside the Star Wars thread because I'm the one guy here who hasn't seen it yet :D

But yeah, fair enough.

I haven't seen it either.
You can live the rest of your life being happy, or you can see it.  Your choice.

blu ray out next month. I don't go to theatres anymore...i don't like having my movie experience ruined by other humans
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 22, 2020, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 22, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 22, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Maladict on February 22, 2020, 08:02:15 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 21, 2020, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
Guys, spoilers  <_<

I don't understand. Why would anybody read a thread called Star Trek Picard and be surprised to see people discussing the show?

Just surprised at people not using spoiler tags for episodes that were released just a day or two ago.
The Star Wars thread looks like the Mueller Report, what's different here?

See, I haven't been inside the Star Wars thread because I'm the one guy here who hasn't seen it yet :D

But yeah, fair enough.

I haven't seen it either.
You can live the rest of your life being happy, or you can see it.  Your choice.

Not that big of a Skywalker series fan to be disappointed by it that far.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 22, 2020, 07:32:06 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 22, 2020, 04:41:34 PM
blu ray out next month. I don't go to theatres anymore...i don't like having my movie experience ruined by other humans
these days, I seem to go to the theater more often for my 7 years old goddaughter than for me, so really, the movie in itself is ruining it for me :P

It's not the movie experience per se that I relish, but being with friends/family, talking about the movie before&after :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 02:22:08 AM
Why did they cast the tng's big-bosomed telepath lady as the crime boss?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
They did not. They don't have time travel capabilities.

They did find someone who looks like Marina Sirtis from 30 years ago tho.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 07:12:21 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
They did not. They don't have time travel capabilities.

They did find someone who looks like Marina Sirtis from 30 years ago tho.

Hah, she looked totally like I thought that actress would be looking today.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on February 24, 2020, 07:29:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 07:12:21 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
They did not. They don't have time travel capabilities.

They did find someone who looks like Marina Sirtis from 30 years ago tho.

Hah, she looked totally like I thought that actress would be looking today.

:huh:

The actress playing Bjayzal is in her 30s.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 07:39:24 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 24, 2020, 07:29:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 07:12:21 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
They did not. They don't have time travel capabilities.

They did find someone who looks like Marina Sirtis from 30 years ago tho.

Hah, she looked totally like I thought that actress would be looking today.

:huh:

The actress playing Bjayzal is in her 30s.

Looked far older.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 07:56:15 AM
Troi will be in Picard, Sirtis still has the role. We'll know how she looks.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 24, 2020, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
They did not. They don't have time travel capabilities.

They did find someone who looks like Marina Sirtis from 30 years ago tho.

was that intentional...and why?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 24, 2020, 09:32:00 AM
Is Seven a regular?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 10:13:25 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 24, 2020, 09:31:28 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 24, 2020, 06:51:14 AM
They did not. They don't have time travel capabilities.

They did find someone who looks like Marina Sirtis from 30 years ago tho.

was that intentional...and why?

Picard had a sort of eye-flash as if recognising the character we are talking about, when they first met in this episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on February 24, 2020, 10:13:43 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 24, 2020, 09:32:00 AM
Is Seven a regular?

[spoiler]Nope[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on February 24, 2020, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 24, 2020, 09:32:00 AM
Is Seven a regular?
Maybe recurring, we don't know yet.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 01:00:18 PM
Keeps getting better.

Loved yesterday's episode. Everything's coming to a head with four episodes to go.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on February 28, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 01:00:18 PM
Keeps getting better.

Loved yesterday's episode. Everything's coming to a head with four episodes to go.

Agreed.  Now that the world has been created they are moving on with the story.  Last episode was great.  The last line was a great way to end the episode. "Please, my friends, choose to live"
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on February 28, 2020, 04:35:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 28, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 01:00:18 PM
Keeps getting better.

Loved yesterday's episode. Everything's coming to a head with four episodes to go.

Agreed.  Now that the world has been created they are moving on with the story.  Last episode was great.  The last line was a great way to end the episode. "Please, my friends, choose to live"

Yep. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 06, 2020, 01:21:53 PM
Woah....that was a moving episode. [spoiler]Good to see Riker and Troi back. One of the things I'm not enjoying this season, though, is realizing how much they, and by extension, me, are aging. Marina looks nothing like Troi season one. Frakes has put on the pounds. [/spoiler]

Only one thing I'm confused with is why the new cyber girl, hasn't quite accepted her fate as quickly as her sister, who once she was activated knew she had to find Picard. This one, doesnt' seem to know, or trust him.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 06, 2020, 03:01:48 PM
nostalgia bomb that last one...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 06, 2020, 04:14:00 PM
Yeah, I thought she was going to get the same message and then have the distrust she is showing because she knows her memories are not real - her sister did not have the benefit of learning that before she died.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 10, 2020, 12:50:07 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2020, 04:14:00 PM
Yeah, I thought she was going to get the same message and then have the distrust she is showing because she knows her memories are not real - her sister did not have the benefit of learning that before she died.

Yeah, that's how it seemed to me too.

I also appreciate that they are able to run this show with some of the old cast making cameos and because of story can be unapologetic about the changes in appearance due to age.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 10, 2020, 01:03:41 PM
Have to say I'm a bit disappointed by the show. It is too much just Picard's grand fan service tour.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on March 10, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 10, 2020, 01:03:41 PM
Have to say I'm a bit disappointed by the show. It is too much just Picard's grand fan service tour.

The character's name is right there in the title...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
Great episode

Love that all sides think they are in the right
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 13, 2020, 06:21:28 PM
They definitely amped up the tension. Glad they finally made the villains a bit sympathetic.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 14, 2020, 02:53:14 PM
One thing I'm finding odd is it's really based around the same plot idea as the last series of discovery. AI threat leading to the end of civilization. Wonder whether the two will meet- what with discovery being flung into the future at the end of the last series
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 15, 2020, 07:15:11 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 14, 2020, 02:53:14 PM
One thing I'm finding odd is it's really based around the same plot idea as the last series of discovery. AI threat leading to the end of civilization. Wonder whether the two will meet- what with discovery being flung into the future at the end of the last series

Good point. I think there will be a plot-meet at some point.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: MadImmortalMan on March 20, 2020, 04:27:06 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 10, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 10, 2020, 01:03:41 PM
Have to say I'm a bit disappointed by the show. It is too much just Picard's grand fan service tour.

The character's name is right there in the title...

Except it's not him. It's just his name. A cardboard Picard cutout surrounded by fan service.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 20, 2020, 07:58:32 AM
In what way is it not the same character?

About the last episode [spoiler]looks like Data and Lore made it into the gene pool[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: MadImmortalMan on March 20, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyGGW3tqNPY

RLM guys explain it better than I could.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 20, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 20, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyGGW3tqNPY

RLM guys explain it better than I could.

Do I want to spend over and hour listening to some jackasses? Probs not.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: MadImmortalMan on March 20, 2020, 03:11:44 PM
Granted, it takes a LONG time to point out everything wrong with this show. Heh.  :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Valmy on March 20, 2020, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 20, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 20, 2020, 01:22:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyGGW3tqNPY

RLM guys explain it better than I could.

Do I want to spend over and hour listening to some jackasses? Probs not.

Yet you spend hours posting with us :hug:

I enjoy RLM but yeah they can make ridiculously long video essays about silly cultural things.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Habbaku on March 20, 2020, 03:32:59 PM
That's literally the reason they exist--to make video essays about silly cultural things. If you're not into it, you're not into it, but criticizing the mere existence is a bit weird.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Valmy on March 20, 2020, 03:34:46 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 20, 2020, 03:32:59 PM
That's literally the reason they exist--to make video essays about silly cultural things. If you're not into it, you're not into it, but criticizing the mere existence is a bit weird.

Oh I am into it :blush:

But I get how most normal people don't have time for that :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on March 20, 2020, 05:05:22 PM
Up until this last episode, I've been enjoying the series. 

Now I think it's kinda bad.

[spoiler]Unkown Soong's son, who is essentially just like his dad on a planet of yogie-Datas?  Ugh.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 20, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 20, 2020, 05:05:22 PM
Up until this last episode, I've been enjoying the series. 

Now I think it's kinda bad.

[spoiler]Unkown Soong's son, who is essentially just like his dad on a planet of yogie-Datas?  Ugh.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
For some reason, all Soong look alike.  Remember Entrerprise.  Maybe they are all clones.  ;) [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on March 22, 2020, 03:14:38 AM
Yeah, it pains me to say it but this show isn't too good. I had big hopes for new Trek in this golden age of serialized TV, but so far it hasn't delivered.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 22, 2020, 05:36:23 AM
Is the Soong thing really that problematic?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on March 22, 2020, 05:40:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 22, 2020, 05:36:23 AM
Is the Soong thing really that problematic?

Nah, I'm not that much of a geek to care for those things. I just think there's way too much fan service and the story hasn't been interesting. Take out the fact it is Star Trek and the show doesn't have much on its own.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 22, 2020, 06:37:48 AM
Quote from: celedhring on March 22, 2020, 05:40:11 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 22, 2020, 05:36:23 AM
Is the Soong thing really that problematic?

Nah, I'm not that much of a geek to care for those things. I just think there's way too much fan service and the story hasn't been interesting. Take out the fact it is Star Trek and the show doesn't have much on its own.

Fair. I mean it is a rather simple story that has been expanded over quite a fair amount of episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 22, 2020, 08:31:15 AM
I agree that's fair comment. I mean, if it wasn't appealing to the fan base, the whole episode at Riker's house was pointless, and it is a simple story. But still enjoyable for us old Trekkers.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2020, 02:53:23 PM
Knight Commander of the Illustrious Nerd Order awarded to Jo Jo for calling himself a Trekker and not a Trekky.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 22, 2020, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2020, 02:53:23 PM
Knight Commander of the Illustrious Nerd Order awarded to Jo Jo for calling himself a Trekker and not a Trekky.

:)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 22, 2020, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Josephus on March 22, 2020, 08:31:15 AM
I agree that's fair comment. I mean, if it wasn't appealing to the fan base, the whole episode at Riker's house was pointless, and it is a simple story. But still enjoyable for us old Trekkers.

Like most such appearances there are moments of "Oh it's him! I wonder if they'll be there too....? There they are! Swee!" but this doesn't last long.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 22, 2020, 06:52:17 PM
Quote from: celedhring on March 22, 2020, 03:14:38 AM
Yeah, it pains me to say it but this show isn't too good. I had big hopes for new Trek in this golden age of serialized TV, but so far it hasn't delivered.

It's Mass Effect in the Star Trek universe
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 27, 2020, 08:38:54 AM
Terrible, nonsensical and contradictory ending
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on March 27, 2020, 12:44:11 PM
Hmm, yeah...I may have lost count of the deus ex machina's. 
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on March 27, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
I know you should expect spoilers in this thread, but just to be doubly safe...

[spoiler]Yeah, so what's the point of killing Picard, but bringing his character back as an android with all of Picard's memories?

I mean, I guess that might be a big part of the storyline for season 2, but it otherwise felt really cheap.  They give Stewart a big tragic death scene, but then reverse it moments later.
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Valmy on March 27, 2020, 01:05:22 PM
My wife started watching the show but eventually was just "screw this I would rather just watch the original TNG" which she has been doing. Probably not a good sign since she is such a TNG fan.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 27, 2020, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 27, 2020, 08:38:54 AM
Terrible, nonsensical and contradictory ending
yes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 28, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
Interesting vulcans aren't from vulcan ending.

But the whole fleet showing up just like that... Doesn't really make sense. Very Abrams movies style.

Tis very thoroughly meh. I place it in competition with TOS for worst trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 28, 2020, 02:57:42 PM
It was shit. Despite having Patrick Stewart in it.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on March 28, 2020, 05:02:42 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 28, 2020, 02:55:46 PM
I place it in competition with TOS for worst trek.

:mad:

I, sir, demand satisfaction for this outrageous remark!
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on March 28, 2020, 05:03:22 PM
Especially with Voyager out there.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on March 28, 2020, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 28, 2020, 05:03:22 PM
Especially with Voyager out there.

:secret: Enterprise.  Though not a huge Voyager fan.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on March 28, 2020, 05:05:49 PM
I cannot judge Enterprise, as I stopped watching it part way into the first season, and never found any motivation to come back to it.  :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on March 28, 2020, 05:10:48 PM
Overall, for the season as a whole, I thought it started strong...dragged a bit, then ended in a thud.

At least, I suppose, they wrapped the plot up and didn't go the cliffhanger route...but what are they supposed to be doing for S2-3? [spoiler] Robo-Picard as Hannibal of the 24th-century A-Team?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: HVC on March 28, 2020, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 28, 2020, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 28, 2020, 05:03:22 PM
Especially with Voyager out there.

:secret: Enterprise.  Though not a huge Voyager fan.

At least enterprise gets better.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on March 28, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 28, 2020, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 28, 2020, 05:04:08 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on March 28, 2020, 05:03:22 PM
Especially with Voyager out there.

:secret: Enterprise.  Though not a huge Voyager fan.

At least enterprise gets better.

I could never really get into Enterprise, even when I've tried on streaming.  Voyager started good, though I checked out before the end.

What impresses me is no one is suggesting Discovery is the worst.  I still quite liked it. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 28, 2020, 05:24:31 PM
Though with time voyager has dropped from my favourite trek I still maintain it was good and I really don't get the hate.

TOS is basically just an American Dr Who. Wacky adventure of the week in a radically inconsistent make it up as you go along universe.
I respect it for what it is and it's importance for the development of the genre. But putting aside all that and watching it neutrally... It just isn't the best.



For a while in this last episode of Picard I thought at first they had ran an excellent trick on us with all Stewarts talk of series 2 being misdirection
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on March 29, 2020, 03:34:19 AM
They really pushed the franchise-staple techno-babble deus ex machina to its zenith with the ACME Imagine In And It Will Happen Handtool.

What a shitty ending to an at best mediocre season.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 29, 2020, 04:04:50 AM
Have to wonder overall about this....
Why are robots such a big deal?
Discovery dealt with AI that could take over people's bodies a century beforehand.
Voyager showed holograms are fully sentient.
But... It's robots that are particularly bad?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on March 29, 2020, 04:07:13 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 29, 2020, 04:04:50 AM
Have to wonder overall about this....
Why are robots such a big deal?
Discovery dealt with AI that could take other people's bodies a century beforehand.
Voyager showed holograms are fully sentient.
But... It's robots that are particularly bad?

Looking for in-universe coherence when you have hundreds of hours of TV and movie material is a fool's errand. I personally don't mind continuity holes that much, if what I'm given is engaging enough. Picard wasn't.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 29, 2020, 04:26:40 AM
There's comic book guy coherence like "OMG in episode 125 spock says he met Kirk in a Boston bar in 2265 yet in episode 354 its established Kirk was on a 3 year mission from 2264, like, how do you explain that! Show ruined forever!"
And ignoring core front and centre plot points.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tonitrus on March 29, 2020, 05:36:22 AM
I think the things that have turned me off of Enterprise, and then Discovery...is way too much of the time-travel/mirror-universe schlock. 

The mirror universe was very cool as a one-off in TOS...maybe even worthy of a one-time revisit in a later series.  Then DS9 milked it too much, and Discovery went in did the milk challenge and puked it up everywhere.

TOS and TNG used time travel infrequently (and a bit lamely too), but never bugged out it too much.  I though the concept of Enterprise was actually a great idea...show a bit about how the Federation came together...but that concept was really built for a more episodic-format show like TOS or TNG were.  But unfortunately for them...the time of when the show came out was the start of the bridge from episodic shows to more story-arc shows, and they bogged themselves down into that silly "temporal cold war" crap, and my interest shut down.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 29, 2020, 10:29:18 AM
Mess of a final episode, but I thought the season was entertaining enough. Sure their were plot holes galore but then Trek has always had many of those. I'd recommend over say watching the Generations film. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2020, 02:38:29 PM
So I watched the show today while leveling my toon in Path of Exile. :P

I enjoyed it for the most part, though I think the whole story could have been trimmed to 8 episodes. It was interesting to contrast with Discovery (I finished season 2 yesterday, 8 or so episodes).

Picard seemed, on the whole, more lighthearted, and I quite enjoyed the motley assortment of characters that Picard collects around him. Discovery still often seems a bit dour, but I think Season 2 was a lot better in that regard than Season 1. Also, Picard got to make speeches, thumbs up for that.  :thumbsup:

With Picard dying/resurrecting ... yeah, that was telegraphed when they showed the golem and pointed out that a mind could be uploaded to it. We know Picard is pretty close to death, so we kinda know what's happening. Also, I already thought that Discovery was overdoing it a bit with characters dying and being resurrected or replaced with mirror equivalents, but now this show does it too? :lol: Still, the final scene between Picard and Data was sweet. :wub: :cry:

Lots of continuity nods throughout the show which I appreciated, and I probably missed a lot. Especially loved them bringing back one episode characters like Maddox and Hugh. I liked the new crew, esp. Rios and his holograms. And new Seven of Nine seems like good evolution of her character. Do Rafi and her have a thing? They were shown holding hands at the end. :unsure: I felt a bit of a Mass Effect 2 vibe about the crew, which is not a bad thing.

As was mentioned above it seems striking that Disco 2 and Picard seem to have the same underlying theme. In Disco 2 AI wants to wipe out organic life. In Picard synths almost summon powerful artificial lifeforms to wipe out organic life. I kind of expect those plots to intersect at some point. I'm rather curious about season 3 of Discovery where the ship will in the year 3186 according to this timeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek

Wouldn't surprise me if the evil über-synths from the end of Picard were to actually come from the future.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 29, 2020, 02:48:37 PM
P.S.: I found it quite irritating that the Romulan spy had the same hair/beard as Spock. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 29, 2020, 08:30:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 29, 2020, 04:04:50 AM
Have to wonder overall about this....
Why are robots such a big deal?
Discovery dealt with AI that could take other people's bodies a century beforehand.
Voyager showed holograms are fully sentient.
But... It's robots that are particularly bad?
sentient robots =AI.  Starfleet had no big problems with them until Utopia Planetia.

Holograms can't reprogram themselves, they need someone to do it for them.

Robots are a big deal because the Federation thinks the one son Mars became sentient and destroyed their creators (we now know for sure it wasn't the case).
That at least makes some sense.

The rest of the finale...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on April 07, 2020, 04:14:53 PM
Finally caught up on the last episode (I had been postponing it after reading people's opinions).

Picard's death and resurrection was such a pointless part of the episode...
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: ulmont on April 07, 2020, 06:57:09 PM
Quote from: celedhring on April 07, 2020, 04:14:53 PM
Finally caught up on the last episode (I had been postponing it after reading people's opinions).

Picard's death and resurrection was such a pointless part of the episode...

Yeah, but at least they did signpost it to the extent it wasn't quite out of nowhere.  Still pointless.  I guess all it ends up doing is showing us that Data wanted to die permanently.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on April 08, 2020, 01:36:53 AM
We only learnt he was "alive" 5 minutes before his death too. No resonance whatsoever.

I'm willing to bet that at one point this plot device was intended as a way to replace Stewart with a younger actor, they just realized how terrible an idea would that be.

All in all, disappointing show. Only plus going forward is that I found the crew members likeable, which is always important in a Trek show.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on April 08, 2020, 03:09:47 AM
Quote from: celedhring on April 08, 2020, 01:36:53 AM
We only learnt he was "alive" 5 minutes before his death too. No resonance whatsoever.

I'm willing to bet that at one point this plot device was intended as a way to replace Stewart with a younger actor, they just realized how terrible an idea would that be.

All in all, disappointing show. Only plus going forward is that I found the crew members likeable, which is always important in a Trek show.

I guess if he suddenly dies (hope not. But he is old) it gives them a way to finish off the series with an easy "he is a robot so he can alter his appaearance" explanation
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on April 09, 2020, 12:57:36 AM
Quote from: celedhring on April 08, 2020, 01:36:53 AM
Only plus going forward is that I found the crew members likeable,
that's the drinking, smoking cigars and swearing for you ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 20, 2020, 02:39:19 PM
Not Picard related, but I found this fan theory quite amusing:

https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/g4x9cn/star_trek_takes_place_in_the_same_universe_as_the/

QuoteStar Trek takes place in the same universe as the soap opera Days of our Lives.

I know what you're thinking. You're looking at the calendar and saying that this guy's high as a kite. Well, it isn't so. I'm sober as a judge, and I have evidence. Well, I have strong conjecture, but this is science fiction, so strong conjecture is just as good as evidence.

Yes, Star Trek is the future of the universe in which Days of our Lives is the present. It all hinges on a guy named Eugene.

On Days of our Lives, back in the eighties, there was a character named Eugene Bradford, who was a bit of a mad scientist. There were all sorts of weird sci-fi/fantasy plot lines surrounding his character, like magical Haitian talismans, mysterious prisms that could cure cancer, and other weirdness. He was on the show for several years, and when it came time for his character to depart the show, he wasn't killed off like so many other characters. He left in a time machine he had built. In the 1980s. He later came back with a synth replica of his wife for a while, but eventually left again in his time machine.

"That's all well and good," I can hear you saying, "But what does all of that have to do with Star Trek?" This is where things should start to become clear.

This is Eugene Bradford:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/daysofourlives/images/3/3c/Eugene_Bradford.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140213002539

Yep. That's right. Played by John De Lancie. You know him better as Q.

We already know that a member of the Q continuum can bestow the powers of the Q upon humans, from the TNG episode "Hide and Q." We also know that people who seem human can actually be members of the Continuum, even without knowing it, as in the TNG episode "True Q." We also know that Q- our Q (let's call him Qgene for clarity's sake), isn't quite like other members of the continuum. He is, for one thing, overly fascinated by humanity. He is also extremely melodramatic for such a supposedly advanced being- just the sort of behavior you would expect from a being whose origins are from a Soap Opera.

Here's what I think happened- Qgene, after he left earth, obviously traveled into the future, where among other things, he discovered Doctor Soong's perfected synth technology. Either he was a Q all along, like Amanda Rogers, or the continuum took notice of a human from the 1980s who was intelligent enough to build a working time machine when his species was still 80 years from being warp capable. Either way, this soap opera weirdo became one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on April 20, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
Is Star Trek Discovery on schedule, or has COVID delayed it?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Barrister on April 20, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: Josephus on April 20, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
Is Star Trek Discovery on schedule, or has COVID delayed it?

Apparently filming wrapped up in February.  So as long as they can do all the post-production special effects at home (which might be a big if), we should get it later this year.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on April 22, 2020, 05:05:11 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 20, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: Josephus on April 20, 2020, 04:11:25 PM
Is Star Trek Discovery on schedule, or has COVID delayed it?

Apparently filming wrapped up in February.  So as long as they can do all the post-production special effects at home (which might be a big if), we should get it later this year.

It can be done. One of the shows I worked for has been doing postproduction remotely.

Issue might be if they needed to do reshoots. Which is unusual in tv shows (as opposed to movies), but it might be different with these big budget shows.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on April 22, 2020, 07:55:51 AM
I don't know. I know they had to delay the last episode of Walking Dead, even though it was filmed.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on April 22, 2020, 07:57:51 AM
OK, according to this poorly written (seems like a google translate or something) article, it is delayed because of corona

https://worldtoptrend.com/2020/04/star-trek-discovery-season-3-release-date-cast-plot-trailer-and-whats-your-best-fan-theory-over-update/

this article is better

https://www.techradar.com/news/star-trek-discovery-season-3-release-date-trailer-cast
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 07, 2020, 01:03:11 PM
Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill have started a new podcast series where they revcap/reminisce/review every episode of Star Trek Voyager: https://the-delta-flyers.captivate.fm/
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on May 07, 2020, 01:53:05 PM
Interesting. I just watched the first ep of voyager and was giving thought to a watch through or at least watching the highlights
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 08, 2020, 01:54:47 PM
Renegade Cut - "Star Trek: Generations is Good, Actually"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvPLSk4kGwY


"Star Trek fans - sometimes - view their favorite franchise not within the contecxt of any of these academic theories, or even view the franchise as film critics often do, as a judgment on its craft. Star Trek fans often view Star Trek, and judge Star Trek exclusively how it relates to Star Trek, more specifically: to Star Trek canon."

Seems applicable to MANY franchises (including Star Wars)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 15, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
New Star Trek coming.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/star-trek-series-anson-mount-ethan-peck-rebecca-romijn-cbs-all-access-1234607259/

Quote'Star Trek' Series Starring Ethan Peck as Spock, Anson Mount as Capt. Pike Set at CBS All Access

CBS All Access is bringing back some fan-favorite characters for a another brand new "Star Trek" series.

The streamer has given a series order to "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds" starring Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike, Rebecca Romijn as Number One and Ethan Peck as Science Officer Spock. The series will follow Pike, Spock, and Number One in the decade before Captain Kirk boarded the U.S.S. Enterprise as they explore new worlds around the galaxy.

The trio of characters were first introduced into revamped CBS "Star Trek" universe in Season 2 of "Star Trek: Discovery." All three received praise for their performances, with fans quickly clamoring for a spinoff. They were also featured in the first episode of Season 2 of "Star Trek: Short Treks."

"Fans fell in love with Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck's portrayals of these iconic characters when they were first introduced on 'Star Trek: Discovery' last season," said Julie McNamara, executive vice president and head of programming at CBS All Access. "This new series will be a perfect complement to the franchise, bringing a whole new perspective and series of adventures to 'Star Trek.'"

The series premiere was written by Akiva Goldsman with the story by Goldsman, Alex Kurtzman and Jenny Lumet. Goldsman, Kurtzman and Lumet will serve as executive producers along with Henry Alonso Myers, Heather Kadin, Rod Roddenberry and Trevor Roth. Aaron Baiers, Akela Cooper and Davy Perez will serve as co-executive producers. The series will be produced by CBS Television Studios, Secret Hideout and Roddenberry Entertainment.

"This is a dream come true, literally," said  Goldsman. "I have imagined myself on the bridge of the Enterprise since the early 1970s. I'm honored to be a part of this continuing journey along with Alex, Henry and the fine folks at CBS."

CBS has bet big on "Star Trek" in recent years. Including "Strange New Worlds," there are now five shows in the shared universe on All Access: "Star Trek: Discovery" (Season 3 debuting later this year), "Star Trek: Picard" (Season 1 aired this year, already renewed for Season 2), "Star Trek: Short Treks," and the adult animated series "Star Trek: Lower Decks" (debuting later this year). Nickelodeon is also prepping an animated "Star Trek" kids series. All Access announced last year that it was developing a series centered on Michelle Yeoh's character from "Discovery."

"When we said we heard the fans' outpouring of love for Pike, Number One and Spock when they boarded 'Star Trek: Discovery' last season, we meant it," said Kurtzman. "These iconic characters have a deep history in 'Star Trek' canon, yet so much of their stories have yet to be told. With Akiva and Henry at the helm, the Enterprise, its crew and its fans are in for an extraordinary journey to new frontiers in the 'Star Trek' universe."

It was announced in 2018 that Kurtzman had signed a five-year deal with CBS TV Studios to supervise the expansion of the "Star Trek" television universe. Last year, CBS announced it was launching a "Star Trek" global franchise group to manage new projects like podcasts, new digital spaces, and live experiential events.


I'm fully on board with more Cpt Pike.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on May 15, 2020, 11:27:08 AM
Yeah, Anson Mount was great in Discovery. One of the few things I liked from season 2.

I wish they had not given the keys to the Enterprise to Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman for this new era of Trek. They're hacks.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 15, 2020, 11:32:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 08, 2020, 01:54:47 PM
Renegade Cut - "Star Trek: Generations is Good, Actually"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvPLSk4kGwY


"Star Trek fans - sometimes - view their favorite franchise not within the contecxt of any of these academic theories, or even view the franchise as film critics often do, as a judgment on its craft. Star Trek fans often view Star Trek, and judge Star Trek exclusively how it relates to Star Trek, more specifically: to Star Trek canon."

Seems applicable to MANY franchises (including Star Wars)

Hopefully better than the Renegade Cut of Highlander II. Generations was not as bad as Highlander II obviously, though.  :D
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 15, 2020, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 15, 2020, 11:27:08 AM
Yeah, Anson Mount was great in Discovery. One of the few things I liked from season 2.

I wish they had not given the keys to the Enterprise to Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman for this new era of Trek. They're hacks.

I just hope we get Yeoman Colt back. :P

(https://simondrax.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/tos_1x00_022.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on May 15, 2020, 12:36:55 PM
A video of the actors announcing the show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD6kUZwMOjQ&feature=emb_logo
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on May 15, 2020, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 15, 2020, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: celedhring on May 15, 2020, 11:27:08 AM
Yeah, Anson Mount was great in Discovery. One of the few things I liked from season 2.

I wish they had not given the keys to the Enterprise to Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman for this new era of Trek. They're hacks.

I just hope we get Yeoman Colt back. :P

(https://simondrax.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/tos_1x00_022.jpg)

She's probably not as cute these days.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 04, 2022, 07:33:46 AM
Picard kicks Discovery's ass. Thought new episode was great.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2022, 07:42:38 AM
I have yet to catch up :pirate on the shows.

EDIT: Saw it's still on Prime, so will watch tonight, I guess.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2022, 01:08:38 PM
Well, that was an intriguing first episode. :)

I just worry that the initial mystery is more compelling than what follows, as seems to be the case with modern Trek.

Though if you have to handwave twice why two characters that shouldn't have aged (much) look older now ... :D

Nice little detail: at the graduation ceremony, Picard called Elnor the "first fully Romulan" graduate. The writers probably knew if they called him the "first Romulan" graduate, fans would point to Simon Tarses from the TNG episode The Drumhead. :P https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Simon_Tarses
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 04, 2022, 01:15:16 PM
Also, on the question why the Picards speak with a very British accent, both on TNG and in Picard, I like to think Transmetropolitan explained it. :P

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNBlib3XEA8hMM8?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: HVC on March 05, 2022, 04:27:56 AM
Watched the first episode. It was ok, and I liked the cameos. But Stewart sounds old and that makes me sad.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2022, 04:31:52 AM
Quote from: HVC on March 05, 2022, 04:27:56 AMWatched the first episode. It was ok, and I liked the cameos. But Stewart sounds old and that makes me sad.

I was watching him going through his semi-retirement life, thinking, "leave him be. Just let the poor guy rest. Let him enjoy life." :cry: I would totally watch a Picard show which is just him dealing with small day to day problems at the academy or something and checking in on his old friends. :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: HVC on March 05, 2022, 04:33:13 AM
Tending his vineyard with guests. Like a Star Trek variety show lol.


Also, why are star ships so dark now? Must be a bitch fining the right buttons.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2022, 09:39:23 AM
Old Picard is hard to watch.  Not as hard as watching Biden give a speech, but it's close.

I am not very enthused about watching Picard what if

They developed some interesting characters in the first season.  But all that seems like it will be ignored as the show goes down a alternate time line rabbit hole.

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 05, 2022, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: Josephus on March 04, 2022, 07:33:46 AMPicard kicks Discovery's ass. Thought new episode was great.
that was a great show, I especially liked the ending :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 05, 2022, 10:01:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 05, 2022, 09:39:23 AMI am not very enthused about watching Picard what if

can't be worst than Marvel's What if... :yucky:
:P

I'm cautiously hopeful that this won't be the entire season. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 05, 2022, 11:15:46 PM
Calling it now (spoilers?): the Borg Queen asking to join the Federation is actually Seven from the future/past/parallel universe.

I'm still wondering what the Borg are up to I'm Discovery's tomeline. :hmm:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 06, 2022, 09:19:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 05, 2022, 11:15:46 PMCalling it now (spoilers?): the Borg Queen asking to join the Federation is actually Seven from the future/past/parallel universe.

I'm still wondering what the Borg are up to I'm Discovery's tomeline. :hmm:

I was going to say they are creating an inconsistency with no borg components in ships of the future but that will depend on how this resolves.  It could be borg components are too risky.

The borg queen didn't seem to want to join she said she wanted power, ie to assimilate.  She was taking over the fleet.

Why specifically asking for Picard?  Because he is useful as a Borg?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 06, 2022, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2022, 09:19:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 05, 2022, 11:15:46 PMCalling it now (spoilers?): the Borg Queen asking to join the Federation is actually Seven from the future/past/parallel universe.

I'm still wondering what the Borg are up to I'm Discovery's tomeline. :hmm:

I was going to say they are creating an inconsistency with no borg components in ships of the future but that will depend on how this resolves.  It could be borg components are too risky.

The borg queen didn't seem to want to join she said she wanted power, ie to assimilate.  She was taking over the fleet.

Why specifically asking for Picard?  Because he is useful as a Borg?

Not sure. They did point out, though, that she was only stunning the ship's crew, not killing them.  :hmm:

Her motives as of now are unclear - and that they're hiding her face makes us think that there might be a reveal later. Of course with Q in the mix all bets are off. Could be Tasha Yar now. :P With the dark painting of Picard, and Earth being screwed in the "Q scenes" I'm wondering, though, if we're back in the Mirror Universe which ... I'm a bit tired of? :lol:

(Btw, while I really like Rios' vibe as a captain, he ordered his crew multiple times to stop firing, and they completely ignored that order :D )
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 06, 2022, 05:13:59 PM
Could have been stunning because why kill if the Goal is to assimilate.  Picard ordered self destruct so he realized it was desperate. 

The thing I was thinking about is the odd mention in all the early small talk about redoing the Kobayashi Maru test.  Was this Q's unwinnable test for Picard?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: grumbler on March 08, 2022, 07:56:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2022, 05:13:59 PMCould have been stunning because why kill if the Goal is to assimilate.  Picard ordered self destruct so he realized it was desperate. 

The thing I was thinking about is the odd mention in all the early small talk about redoing the Kobayashi Maru test.  Was this Q's unwinnable test for Picard?

The Kobayashi Maru test was an unwinnable scenario at Star Fleet Academy, which Captain Kirk won by secretly changing the test parameters.  He was supposedly the only person ever to win the scenario.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 10:56:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 08, 2022, 07:56:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2022, 05:13:59 PMCould have been stunning because why kill if the Goal is to assimilate.  Picard ordered self destruct so he realized it was desperate. 

The thing I was thinking about is the odd mention in all the early small talk about redoing the Kobayashi Maru test.  Was this Q's unwinnable test for Picard?

The Kobayashi Maru test was an unwinnable scenario at Star Fleet Academy, which Captain Kirk won by secretly changing the test parameters.  He was supposedly the only person ever to win the scenario.

Yes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 08, 2022, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 10:56:05 AMYes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?

Possibly. What do you do when your most dangerous enemy suggests peace but proceeds to do something that looks like an aggressive act (and which I assume will be revealed eventually to have been justified in the moment)? Q's scenarios had plenty such challenges for humans to prove how "barbaric" they still were. Overcoming distrust in your mortal enemy might be such a test.

With Q being in there, and Kate Mulgrew already being on Star Trek Prodigy, I wonder if she will be in this season - after all she had several encounters with Q and the Continuum that shaped their existence.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 11:32:20 AM
If she makes an appearance, that would make this show.  Teaming back up with 7 of 9 to save the day - it would be great.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Maladict on March 08, 2022, 12:21:36 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 11:32:20 AMIf she makes an appearance, that would make this show.  Teaming back up with 7 of 9 to save the day - it would be great.

Iirc they really didn't like each other back in the day.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 08, 2022, 12:27:12 PM
Quote from: Maladict on March 08, 2022, 12:21:36 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 11:32:20 AMIf she makes an appearance, that would make this show.  Teaming back up with 7 of 9 to save the day - it would be great.

Iirc they really didn't like each other back in the day.

They've since reconciled, I think.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKolNknX0AEOs_x.jpg)

https://www.facebook.com/thekatemulgrew/photos/look-who-i-saw-backstage-at-stlvjeri-ryan-jerilryan-congrats-on-bringing-seven-b/1110880352442779/
QuoteKate Mulgrew
Autg5u9ufls0st 19, 2r01l1d9  ·
‪Look who I saw backstage at STLV...Jeri Ryan! @jerilryan 😊 Congrats on bringing Seven back on Star Trek: Picard! Interested to see where the journey takes her. 🖖🏻🍀 #startrek #startrekpicard

(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/6d/a7/fa/6da7fa7b9f9b15e35bd7caa3d2d1f6af.jpg)‬
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 08, 2022, 12:30:43 PM
Actually here's Mulgrew from a few years back:

QuoteHe got more than he bargained for in Mulgrew's own words, "Let's be very straight about something," said Mulgrew to Goss via Closer Weekly. "This is on me, not Jeri. She came in and did what she was asked to do. No question about that, and she did it very well. It's on me, because I'd hoped against hope that Janeway would be sufficient. That we didn't have to bring a beautiful, sexy girl in. That somehow the power of my command, the vicissitudes of my talent would be sufficient unto the day, because this would really change television, right? That's what dug me the hardest, that to pick up the numbers they did that... That was my interpretation of it. And that hurt me. I found it sort of insulting. And, of course, she embodied the part, this beautiful girl. But we certainly were utterly professional. I had been nothing short of completely professional, and she did her job. Very well! It was a very good idea that she was half Borg, but it's on me. I'm sorry it has to be part of this legacy, and I probably should have comported myself better. I should have been more philosophical about it, but in the moment it was difficult."

From this article: https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/kate-mulgrew.html
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 08, 2022, 12:32:19 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 10:56:05 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 08, 2022, 07:56:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 06, 2022, 05:13:59 PMCould have been stunning because why kill if the Goal is to assimilate.  Picard ordered self destruct so he realized it was desperate. 

The thing I was thinking about is the odd mention in all the early small talk about redoing the Kobayashi Maru test.  Was this Q's unwinnable test for Picard?

The Kobayashi Maru test was an unwinnable scenario at Star Fleet Academy, which Captain Kirk won by secretly changing the test parameters.  He was supposedly the only person ever to win the scenario.

Yes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?
Let's assume Syt's theory is valid: the Borg Queen is 7 of 9 from the future.

Is she really evil?  Is she trying to communicate by merging with the computers of the fleet?  Is she trying to mount a defense against something else coming from the rift?  Was she sincere in asking for help?

What is perceived as an act of aggression, the attempted assimilation of the fleet could be something else, due to some condition of these Borg.  Maybe the Borg are fleeing from a yet unknown enemy, more powerful than they are, and one that also poses a danger to the Federation.

The 'maru test could be the unwinnable scenario: do nothing and the Borg assimilates the fleet to defend themselves.  Kill the Queen, kill 7 of 9 and doom the Federation to this new enemy.

It's one scenario I could think of, but there are many directions from which this can go. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 08, 2022, 12:36:56 PM
Also, maybe I'm splitting hairs, but while the queen takes control of the fleet, she's not assimilating anyone, it seems. She's stunning the crew - maybe to assimilate them, but not sure if having a handful more drones is relevant when she commands a fleet (and also has a ginormous ship like she arrived in and which presumably has more than a handful of drones, anyways). Killing or assimilating others seems to be the Borg standard MO, but here she's instead stunning them.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Maladict on March 08, 2022, 12:37:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 08, 2022, 12:30:43 PMActually here's Mulgrew from a few years back:

QuoteHe got more than he bargained for in Mulgrew's own words, "Let's be very straight about something," said Mulgrew to Goss via Closer Weekly. "This is on me, not Jeri. She came in and did what she was asked to do. No question about that, and she did it very well. It's on me, because I'd hoped against hope that Janeway would be sufficient. That we didn't have to bring a beautiful, sexy girl in. That somehow the power of my command, the vicissitudes of my talent would be sufficient unto the day, because this would really change television, right? That's what dug me the hardest, that to pick up the numbers they did that... That was my interpretation of it. And that hurt me. I found it sort of insulting. And, of course, she embodied the part, this beautiful girl. But we certainly were utterly professional. I had been nothing short of completely professional, and she did her job. Very well! It was a very good idea that she was half Borg, but it's on me. I'm sorry it has to be part of this legacy, and I probably should have comported myself better. I should have been more philosophical about it, but in the moment it was difficult."

From this article: https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/kate-mulgrew.html

Doesn't sound all that professional reading the rest of the article. But good for them to move on.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 08, 2022, 04:04:19 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 08, 2022, 11:27:21 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 08, 2022, 10:56:05 AMYes exactly.  The encounter with the Borg was unwinnable.  Was it just a scenario created by Q?

Possibly. What do you do when your most dangerous enemy suggests peace but proceeds to do something that looks like an aggressive act (and which I assume will be revealed eventually to have been justified in the moment)? Q's scenarios had plenty such challenges for humans to prove how "barbaric" they still were. Overcoming distrust in your mortal enemy might be such a test.

With Q being in there, and Kate Mulgrew already being on Star Trek Prodigy, I wonder if she will be in this season - after all she had several encounters with Q and the Continuum that shaped their existence.

Which is why the "It is an alt-universe Seven" doesn't make sense, she would likely call for Janeway, no?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: HVC on March 08, 2022, 04:35:57 PM
Last time the borg were successful against the federation was under the direction of Locutus of Borg. Maybe they've run out of ideas :D
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 08, 2022, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: Josephus on March 08, 2022, 04:04:19 PMWhich is why the "It is an alt-universe Seven" doesn't make sense, she would likely call for Janeway, no?

It's a show called Picard.  :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 11, 2022, 07:18:00 AM
That was a fun episode.

SPOILERS BELOW THIS POINT!




So this is more of a Yesterday's Enterprise rather than Through a Mirror Darkly situation (enjoyed Q namedropping both titles) where a point of divergence leads to a different outcome.

This point of divergence apparently switched humanity over to the Fanatic Purifiers civic. :P

Btw, I love that Picard gets coffee (Janeway's signature beverage) instead of tea in this timeline. Works well with the "Janeway the Sadistic Tyrant" meme from SF Debris :D

Other than that, a fairly standard "figure out where we are and where we go next" story with a mini-heist. Really like the characters and their dynamics by now. Elnor is such a himbo, though. :lol: And I enjoyed Picard telling Q that he's too old for this bullshit. :D (John De Lancie looks AMAZING for 73 years old :o )

The evil racist Earth government is the Confederation? Subtle, Star Trek, very subtle. :P

So, new questions:
- What's up with Q? He seems out of sorts. Some lingering effects of the changes in the Q Continuum seen in Voyager?
- Q talks of forgiveness, so I feel this will be the theme for this season? Picard learning to forgive the Borg and let go of his trauma.
- What happens in 2024 that changed the timeline? Trump holding a convention speech in L.A. that makes him win the presidential elections? :P (Or a similar character winning the election?)
- Who's the "Watcher" in Los Angeles? Could be Guinan (she has her bar in L.A. in 2401, and we know she can tell if the timeline is "off" as seen in Yesterday's Enterprise). Or it could be one of the characters from the double episode where Voyager traveled to 1996 L.A. (with Sarah Silverman as astronomer, and Ed Begley Jr. as evil industrialist exploiting furture tech for his gains, or Braxton, with whom Seven has additional history. His story is confusing, here's the Memory Alpha link. :P https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Braxton )

Can we trust the Borg queen? My guess is: no (see also Voyager's Scorpion double episode which had a similar dilemma). Revising my prediction: Seven kills(?) the Borg Queen to prevent her from doing An Evil, becomes new Mama Borg and then seeks to join the Federation to prevent a bigger disaster.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 11, 2022, 07:37:14 AM
All good questions. I initially thought of Guinan as the watcher; but yeah you could very well be right.
Also, are we to assume this is the same Borg Queen we saw in the last STNG movie?
I'm a bit annoyed, though, how she knows so much now that she is no longer connected to the hive.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 11, 2022, 07:48:06 AM
Quote from: Josephus on March 11, 2022, 07:37:14 AMAll good questions. I initially thought of Guinan as the watcher; but yeah you could very well be right.
Also, are we to assume this is the same Borg Queen we saw in the last STNG movie?
I'm a bit annoyed, though, how she knows so much now that she is no longer connected to the hive.

Not sure. It's a different actress for one. And I was always confused by how the Borg Queen "works" after Voyager. There's always one consciousness, but it can be moved to different "hosts"? And she's basically the CPU of the hive?

That she can perceive echos of other timelines ... yeah, I file that under "the plot requires it", though it's possible you could retcon that because in First Contact they used time travel, and maybe they have connections to alternate timelines?

I'm also constantly confused about alternate timelines and realities in Trek. The Mirror Universe is obviously the biggest example. There was a divergent point, and since then Mirror U has done its own thing, with occasional interference from the "main" universe. Ok. But then you have Yesterday's Enterprise or this show. Is it a parallel reality that split off? If the past is "fixed", will it cease to exist? Would there be an alternate way to get back to the "main" timeline, similar to how you can go to the Mirror Universe? Or is the "real" "main" timeline created by altering the past? And I'm starting to get a headache. :D

I'm reminded of the finale of TNG, All Good Things, where Q sets up a riddle for Picard across three different points in time. I feel this time it might be an even bigger one, in which they have to trace causality through time and across multiple universes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 11, 2022, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 11, 2022, 07:18:00 AMThe evil racist Earth government is the Confederation? Subtle, Star Trek, very subtle. :P
It's one more case of America's discrimination against Canada.  We're always the bad guys. :(
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 11, 2022, 11:22:34 AM


It's another Queen.  They have an hive mind, sorta like bees and ants.  When the queen bee dies, some other larvae will become queen and take up the role.

I guess it's the same with the queen.  It's a temporary disruption, but somewhere else, a new queen will be activated with the collective knowledge of all drones.

QuoteI'm also constantly confused about alternate timelines and realities in Trek. The Mirror Universe is obviously the biggest example. There was a divergent point, and since then Mirror U has done its own thing, with occasional interference from the "main" universe. Ok. But then you have Yesterday's Enterprise or this show. Is it a parallel reality that split off? If the past is "fixed", will it cease to exist? Would there be an alternate way to get back to the "main" timeline, similar to how you can go to the Mirror Universe? Or is the "real" "main" timeline created by altering the past? And I'm starting to get a headache. :D
It's Q stuff.  It's beyond our comprehension.  :(
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 11, 2022, 03:11:56 PM
Btw, loved Patton Oswald's cameo. :lol:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNli5pIWYAAFZ2M?format=png&name=small)

"Meow."
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 12, 2022, 12:24:44 AM
Enjoyed that show, relieved its not going to be a straight up alt reality what if.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 12, 2022, 12:36:12 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 11, 2022, 11:22:34 AMIt's Q stuff.  It's beyond our comprehension.  :(

That actually raises another question: is there one Q Continuum across all the multiverse? Or is there a separate version of it per universe? :hmm:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 12, 2022, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 12, 2022, 12:36:12 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 11, 2022, 11:22:34 AMIt's Q stuff.  It's beyond our comprehension.  :(

That actually raises another question: is there one Q Continuum across all the multiverse? Or is there a separate version of it per universe? :hmm:
Also beyond our comprehension :P

I think Qs are like the Prophets of DS9, existing in multiple space/time continuums ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on March 12, 2022, 07:48:42 PM
John de Lancie is so good as Q even all these years later. They should just make a show revolving around him and Picard every week.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 13, 2022, 06:15:58 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 12, 2022, 07:48:42 PMJohn de Lancie is so good as Q even all these years later. They should just make a show revolving around him and Picard every week.

 :yes:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on March 18, 2022, 07:54:43 AM
Not hugely into the latest episode. But that's because I generally don't like sci-fi characters coming to present day Earth. There's some exceptions (notably within Trek), but I watch these shows primarily as escapism from the present. :P

Not much to say, except maybe update some speculation:
- the "new" Borg Queen in the first episode: revising my prediction to her being Agnes, not Seven
- Elnor will come back to life, either through time shenanigans or through Borg nanoprobes (I think they did that in Voyager once?)

What does the Butterfly mean? Jörg Hillebrand, a guy who disects ST for props and equipment used and re-used pointed it out in the pilot episode as logo on the containers aboard Seven's ship when she's boarded:

https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1501644238135590912?s=20&t=7cXTDUmt1rnegEx6Ni4fbw

QuoteI'm intrigued by this butterfly-shaped logo ↘️ seen on various cargo labels on La Sirena in the #StarTrekPicard episode "The Star Gazer". It appears together with an "Emergency Medical Supplies" label, so maybe it is related to Starfleet Medical?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNa2YqNXEAIKTq3?format=jpg&name=medium)

In this episode we see the logo on the computer screens and the door of the free clinic. :hmm:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Caliga on March 18, 2022, 09:05:37 AM
I broke down and got Paramount+, finally.  Started watching Discovery and Lower Decks, so I should get to Picard pretty soon.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 18, 2022, 09:22:21 PM
@ Syt, yeah Queen = Agnes
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 19, 2022, 07:34:25 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 18, 2022, 09:22:21 PM@ Syt, yeah Queen = Agnes

Yeah, based on the last episode that would make sense.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 21, 2022, 04:43:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 18, 2022, 07:54:43 AM- Elnor will come back to life, either through time shenanigans or through Borg nanoprobes (I think they did that in Voyager once?)
Yes, with Neelix, in Mortal Coil.  It required modified nanoprobes from Seven and the Holo Doc to perform the procedure.  They don't have a medical officer and Seven does not have nanoprobes.  I'm not sure if Agnes could do it with the Queen.  She'd likely not volunteer. 

Also, as stupid as it sounds, Neelix was dead for close to 19hrs (way too long already, unless he was maintained in some kind of life support with no brain activity), I don't know how long they'll be there with the dead body.

It was a stupid plot device to begin with, and typical of Voyager, there was never any follow up with this, as they could have revived just about any crew member that died, so long as the neural pathways were intact.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 25, 2022, 02:17:19 PM
So, was I supposed to recognize the woman at the end?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on March 25, 2022, 07:08:15 PM
Quote from: Josephus on March 25, 2022, 02:17:19 PMSo, was I supposed to recognize the woman at the end?
Yes.
;)


***spoiler
It's Picard's Romulan friend from the 24th century, introduced in S1.
**** end
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on March 25, 2022, 11:29:43 PM
Quote from: Josephus on March 25, 2022, 02:17:19 PMSo, was I supposed to recognize the woman at the end?

Hint she was in the recap at the start of the episode.  And the first episode. And the other season.  So yes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on March 26, 2022, 05:42:41 AM
I'm old.My short term memory sucks. If she was in STNG, even for 5 minutes, I would have recognized her. But Season One of Picard? Pfffft.

I see now, the actresses name, Orla Brady, was in the opening credits.  :D
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: garbon on March 26, 2022, 03:03:42 PM
ICE will never catch a break.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josquius on March 26, 2022, 04:21:19 PM
This is the general star trek thread right?

Saw episode 1 of the new series of discovery....
This... Is not good. Everything was so very obvious. That the starbase guy was going to die was just painful.
And there were just zero stakes. So a starbase is in trouble because reasons?
Kind of villainy seeming president...
Yeah
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 26, 2022, 04:27:19 PM
Quote from: Josquius on March 26, 2022, 04:21:19 PMThis is the general star trek thread right?

Saw episode 1 of the new series of discovery....
This... Is not good. Everything was so very obvious. That the starbase guy was going to die was just painful.
And there were just zero stakes. So a starbase is in trouble because reasons?
Kind of villainy seeming president...
Yeah

STD has it's own thread iirc
https://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,15243.0.html
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 05, 2022, 01:27:01 PM
Teaser for Picard Season 3: https://twitter.com/StarTrekOnPPlus/status/1511388196398985219
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on April 05, 2022, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 01:27:01 PMTeaser for Picard Season 3: https://twitter.com/StarTrekOnPPlus/status/1511388196398985219
Huge spoiler for season 2:









They make it back to their own timeline  :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on April 06, 2022, 09:32:08 PM
I've been watching an episode of TNG a night before bed and it's amazing the difference between Picard and it's predecessor. Yeah, I know it's a different era and a completely different television show but still, wow.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 22, 2022, 01:44:25 PM
Ok, you guys know I'm generally quite lenient when it comes to sci-fi shows in franchises I like (Trek, Star Wars), because even if a story may not be great, I generally like seeing more of those settings.

But I'm honestly getting quite frustrated with Picard.

SPOILERS BELOW.

The season started with a pretty good mystery in its first few episodes. Why do the Borg show up and ask for Picard? They want to join the Federation? Whaaaa ... ? Then time travel! Q! An alternate timeline! What happened? Going back to 2024 to figure out what went wrong and fix it! ... All good stuff.

But since those first three or so episodes not much has happened. Well, a lot has happened, but not much with regards to that mystery. We have all these plot threads:
- Q and his loss of power (we learned in the recent episode he's dying which is not a huge shock at this point)
- Dr Soong and his genetic research that will somehow lead to Earth becoming determined exterminators (to use Stellaris' term). What does Dr Soong *actually* try to achieve, and how does that make mankind into space nazis? His whole (clone?) bloodline is big into creating perfect beings (e.g. the augmented in Enterprise, Data + Lore, the synths in Picard S.1 ...), but is that all?
- And what will happen with Kore now?
- Angela and the Borg Queen (excellent work by both actresses, btw)
- Picard and his childhood trauma (again, excellent, esp. in the recent episode with James Callis)
- Rene Picard and her voyage/the Supervisor and Q (+ Queenie) seeking to prevent the journey
- Guinan, I guess?
- Agent Wells - I assume he'll be back, because I refuse to believe his appearance was pure filler as it otherwise would be :lol: ... probably a heroic sacrifice that saves the heroes in some critical way, now that he's "seen the light."
- Rafi dealing with guilt over Elnor's death
- Seven being "herself" for the first time
- Rios doing his best to demolish the timeline by dragging the very cute and awesome doctor and her kid into things
Plus the mysteries mentioned above (what causes the change, what does Q want, etc.), and I might even be forgetting something. :P

Each episode, if you take it out of context and watch it by itself, is IMHO fine. The acting is good, the pacing is sometimes off, but the craftsmanship of each one is generally fine.

But looking at them as a larger narrative, the forward momentum is largely gone. There's been vague hints at the larger mystery, but I feel Discovery's season 4 handled theirs much better, IMHO. There, the problem was examined, clues were gathered, leading to new discoveries and questions, and leading the plot down a bit of a breadcrumb trail to its resolution.

Picard S2 started strong in that regard, but hasn't really done much with it in the last 3, 4 episodes. I guess you can start with the strong hook and then focus on more character focused bits, and they do that to some extent, but I also feel you need to dole out some morsels of the big plot question that underlies the season (Why does the timeline change; how can it be fixed; what do Q and the Borg Queen - presumably Jurati - really want?). They have two episodes left to tie it all together (see list above). I assume they'll start next episode, but it still seems a lot. Esp. since these finales tend to be quite action heavy, and there'll probably be a huge "WE'RE DOOMED!" cliffhanger at the end of the penultimate episode. Plus you want to have some room for denouement/epilogue in the final episode (at least I don't expect that they'll drag out the plot arc into the third season).

I can tell you, though, if this season ends with Q undoing all changes when he gets his powers back, and only Picard remembers the experience I will likely be quite pissed, because it's just a small step up from "Bobby being killed was just Pamela having a bad dream!" :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on April 22, 2022, 02:13:05 PM
I agree with those comments.

In addition, I am not that interested in Picard's childhood/hangups.  But that seems to be all this season is about.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on April 22, 2022, 03:18:16 PM
Yeah this show sucks, but I'm in this far so I'll see how it ends.  :lol:

It's my understanding that Season 3 was filmed at the same time as 2 so I'm assuming this season will lead directly into 3, which might mean they don't completely tie up all the plotlines this season.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 22, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on April 22, 2022, 03:18:16 PMYeah this show sucks, but I'm in this far so I'll see how it ends.  :lol:

It's my understanding that Season 3 was filmed at the same time as 2 so I'm assuming this season will lead directly into 3, which might mean they don't completely tie up all the plotlines this season.


Could be, though I was wondering if Stewart's age plays a role there. He doesn't seem exactly spry. His scenes are mostly him sitting down talking to people - I'm ok with that, he's a great enough actor to make that work. But in scenes with more "action" it seemed quite noticeable that they had him re-record his voice lines for those scenes. It's not uncommon (especially in Trek), but it seemed a bit off.

I'm totally here for his family backstory, though. We've only ever seen glimpses of that, so I like seeing more of his messed up family. A shame Robert isn't made part of the memories - after their difficult relationship seen in the TNG episode "Family" this would have been interesting.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on April 22, 2022, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 22, 2022, 01:44:25 PMSPOILERS BELOW.
The season started with a pretty good mystery in its first few episodes. Why do the Borg show up and ask for Picard? They want to join the Federation? Whaaaa ... ? Then time travel! Q! An alternate timeline! What happened? Going back to 2024 to figure out what went wrong and fix it! ... All good stuff.
Q first, then the alternate timeline, then the time travel to figure it out.


Quote from: Syt on April 22, 2022, 01:44:25 PM- Q and his loss of power (we learned in the recent episode he's dying which is not a huge shock at this point)
- Dr Soong and his genetic research that will somehow lead to Earth becoming determined exterminators (to use Stellaris' term). What does Dr Soong *actually* try to achieve, and how does that make mankind into space nazis? His whole (clone?) bloodline is big into creating perfect beings (e.g. the augmented in Enterprise, Data + Lore, the synths in Picard S.1 ...), but is that all?
- And what will happen with Kore now?
Ok, Q is straightforward, we knew he was off since the second episode he was in, Picard even mentions it.

Dr Soong is influence by the Borg Queen at this point.  But we know that so meone, in the original timeline, had created super soldiers (that was the 90s, Khan's rebellion) and tried to take over the Earth, leading to WW3.

I figure that if the Borg Queen helps him, this time, his research leads to a more militaristic society after vanquishing the super soldiers, maybe enhanced humans fighting other enhanced humans.

Kore is now free to party at will, try drugs and alcohol, becomes depressive and hangs herself. ;)

The Borg Queen wants to create drones, retake La Sirena, move to outer space in an inhabited corner where she can find the necessary ressources, than assimilate some more drones and recreate her new Empire.  I figure that in the future, Agnes learns to retake control on the Borg Queen and that explains the scene from the season opener.

As for Rios, well... Honestly, can you blame him?  It's not the first time a guy makes some stupid move for some pretty eyes! :sleep:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on April 22, 2022, 04:53:04 PM
Yeah, I thought it was really good when it first started, and it is still watchable, but doesn't have the same hook to it as it did in the first few episodes.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on April 22, 2022, 06:26:40 PM
I've been watching every episode of TNG from Season 2 onward and it always strikes me as funny how Picard just doesn't have the time of day for most people under his command, especially junior officers. Watching 'Q-Who' right now and Ensign Gomez just spilled hot chocolate on Captain Picard and the look on his face  :lol:

I dunno, maybe ST Picard is older and therefore kinder but younger Picard was basically a huge dick most of the time.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 22, 2022, 11:43:00 PM
I think that's also because Patrick Stewart loosened up over time. When he first joined he had a very no-nonsense attitude to acting. When the rest of the crew was goofing around between takes or otherwise tried to make the long days a bit lighter he would admonish them and tell them to behave like adults/professionals. He eventually became a lot more relaxed.

I saw an interview with him a while back where he said that the cast and crew of TNG saved him, because he was quite a miserable, stodgy person to be around and that he learned from them to be more in the moment and just have more fun in life.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on April 23, 2022, 05:42:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 22, 2022, 11:43:00 PMI think that's also because Patrick Stewart loosened up over time. When he first joined he had a very no-nonsense attitude to acting. When the rest of the crew was goofing around between takes or otherwise tried to make the long days a bit lighter he would admonish them and tell them to behave like adults/professionals. He eventually became a lot more relaxed.

I saw an interview with him a while back where he said that the cast and crew of TNG saved him, because he was quite a miserable, stodgy person to be around and that he learned from them to be more in the moment and just have more fun in life.

Very interesting, I didn't realize that. Makes sense now. Thanks Syt.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 23, 2022, 06:08:48 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on April 23, 2022, 05:42:58 AMVery interesting, I didn't realize that. Makes sense now. Thanks Syt.

I tried to find the original snippet, but it seems to no longer be on YouTube. He commented a few times how he learned to loosen up over time, and the specific one I was thinking of was on Conan:

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/03/13/patrick-stewart-says-star-trek-helped-learn-silly/

QuotePatrick Stewart wasn't the fun loving Twitter using lovable guy we all know now when Star Trek: The Next Generation started. He was a serious Shakespearean actor and was on set to do a job, not have a good time. At least that's what Stewart told Conan O'Brien.

On a recent episode of Conan Sir Patrick was discussing his final film in the X-Men series Logan when he mentioned his time on TNG. It's not that Patrick Stewart wasn't any fun, his concern came from worrying about the crew and others working on set. He didn't want to waste anyone's time with fun.

Quote"I was so boring and tiresome. I had this thing about discipline and I felt that the cast, my fellow cast members on Star Trek, were a little unruly at times."

This isn't the first time Patrick Stewart has said that he thought the rest of the TNG cast were cutting up too much, he also said as much on the Nerdist Podcast.

In the end though it seems Jonathan Frakes, Denise Crosby, and the rest of the TNG crew wore him down and made him learn to have fun on set.

Quote"I think they made me live longer. I think maybe I wouldn't be here, if it had not been for them teaching me how to laugh more."


Without him learning to cut loose a bit, not sure if we would have him on Family Guy or American Dad, as a cameo in Extras, or if he would have written the foreword for one of the volumes of Transmetropolitan. s
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: celedhring on April 25, 2022, 04:00:04 AM
I have started watching this with my mom (we always watch a show when I visit them on the weekends). First episode was... good and intriguing? (I've avoided the spoilers in this thread) but I had good laugh about

1) The fact that they use teleporter technology to harvest grape (no way that's more economically efficient than regular mechanical methods).
2) That young Picard for some weird reason dresses like a boy from the 1930s.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on April 25, 2022, 07:02:40 AM
Quote from: celedhring on April 25, 2022, 04:00:04 AM2) That young Picard for some weird reason dresses like a boy from the 1930s.

LOL>..Yeah, I wondered about that. It's like they're telling us, "See this is young Picard, he's dressed in old fashioned clothes."
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on April 25, 2022, 08:42:24 AM
Didn't the Vulcans first take notice of Earth later than that?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on April 25, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2022, 08:42:24 AMDidn't the Vulcans first take notice of Earth later than that?
"Notice", yeah.  But they Knew about Earth and surveyed it since at least the early 2000s (see Enterprise).
First Contact was officially much later though, once they "noticed" Earth was capable of achieving warp speed.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 25, 2022, 09:21:48 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 25, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2022, 08:42:24 AMDidn't the Vulcans first take notice of Earth later than that?
"Notice", yeah.  But they Knew about Earth and surveyed it since at least the early 2000s (see Enterprise).
First Contact was officially much later though, once they "noticed" Earth was capable of achieving warp speed.

The Carbon Creek episode has a few Vulcans stranded on Earth in the 1950s. It's  a decent episode. One of them "goes native". And stays behind when they leave. I've seen it mentioned in comments that on that episode the Vulcans said the next mission was supposed to stop by  in 20 or so years. So the scene with young agent Wells could have been in the 70s (and his visible age wouldmatch,  I guess). I suppose Vulcans did covert observations (think what Starfleet does in TNG's Who Watches the Watchers, or at the start of the movie Insurrection) before they caught Cochrane's warp flight. Also leaves the question of what happened with the Vulcan who stayed behind in the 50s, or if any observers are on Earth in 2024.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on April 25, 2022, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on April 25, 2022, 09:21:48 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 25, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 25, 2022, 08:42:24 AMDidn't the Vulcans first take notice of Earth later than that?
"Notice", yeah.  But they Knew about Earth and surveyed it since at least the early 2000s (see Enterprise).
First Contact was officially much later though, once they "noticed" Earth was capable of achieving warp speed.

The Carbon Creek episode has a few Vulcans stranded on Earth in the 1950s. It's  a decent episode. One of them "goes native". And stays behind when they leave. I've seen it mentioned in comments that on that episode the Vulcans said the next mission was supposed to stop by  in 20 or so years. So the scene with young agent Wells could have been in the 70s (and his visible age would match,  I guess). I suppose Vulcans did covert observations (think what Starfleet does in TNG's Who Watches the Watchers, or at the start of the movie Insurrection) before they caught Cochrane's warp flight. Also leaves the question of what happened with the Vulcan who stayed behind in the 50s, or if any observers are on Earth in 2024.
You have a much better memory than mine :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on April 25, 2022, 11:50:23 AM
 :worthy:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 25, 2022, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 25, 2022, 09:26:22 AMYou have a much better memory than mine :P


The episode came up a lot on Twitter accounts etc. that I follow, which helped jog my memory. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 28, 2022, 12:07:04 PM
Well, I assume there's going to be some irate fans after this episode. :lol:

At any rate, I didn't expect this callback in a short line from JLP:

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c7/82/07/c78207c1e1b309728459035c199adf4b--drinking-tea-star-trek.jpg)

^_^
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on April 28, 2022, 06:15:12 PM
It hasn't aired yet...! :P
Well, over here :(
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 28, 2022, 11:19:03 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 28, 2022, 06:15:12 PMIt hasn't aired yet...! :P
Well, over here :(

 :pirate
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on April 29, 2022, 09:19:29 AM
This episode really showed how very profound the creators think the dialog/monologues in this series are. Sadly, they are not.

And the hippy collective Borg twist is awful.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2022, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 29, 2022, 09:19:29 AMAnd the hippy collective Borg twist is awful.

It's hippie, not hippy, unless she has a particularly impressive hip. :P

After initial hesitation I didn't hate it. It called back to classic Trek (and the Kirk/Picard speeches that would sway societies), so this isn't without precedence. And I think you can argue that the Borg Queen reduced to a collective of one or two for the first time in who knows how long, undergoes some re-evaluation/realization of herself. It's been established that the Borg can sense other timelines and that things never end well for them. So her having such a profound epiphany, while a huge departure from what we know, is not completely implausible to me. Jurati/Queen and their interactions have been a highlight of the series for me, so I'm generally on board with this. Further, in Voyager we saw a commune of former drones who retained their collective link and thrived on it. So we had a glimpse of something like that before. While I'm tempted to reduce it to "the Borg were evil because they were lonely" I feel a better view is that they engaged in a very misguided attempt to find a "human" connection - the intent might originally have been benevolent and ended up being the extreme assimilators we know from older shows.

(And to be fair, the twist was fairly telegraphed ever since it became quite likely that Jurati would be Borg Queen somehow and be the one requesting to join the Federation in the first Episode.)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on April 29, 2022, 09:46:37 AM
I guess in the end I'm generally happy that they decide to shake up the status quo like that (and we still haven't seen what happened to the Borg past 24th century, or in the 32nd Century (Discovery's era). It's not much different than Klingons making peace with the Federation, the Dominion War and its fallout, or Romulus being destroyed in a cosmic event in that regard. It's always a bit strange and new at first when some very familiar and comfortable pillars of a sci-fi or fantasy setting are knocked over like that, but it also opens up new possibilities for future writers. Let's be honest: what else was there really left to do with the Borg after all the previous shows that wouldn't have been a rehash of something familiar?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on May 03, 2022, 11:23:20 PM
So uh this new Strange New Worlds show is getting good buzz from reviewers. Supposed to be a callback to classic episodic Trek. I guess we'll see this Thursday.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on May 04, 2022, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: Syt on April 29, 2022, 09:46:37 AMI guess in the end I'm generally happy that they decide to shake up the status quo like that (and we still haven't seen what happened to the Borg past 24th century, or in the 32nd Century (Discovery's era). It's not much different than Klingons making peace with the Federation, the Dominion War and its fallout, or Romulus being destroyed in a cosmic event in that regard. It's always a bit strange and new at first when some very familiar and comfortable pillars of a sci-fi or fantasy setting are knocked over like that, but it also opens up new possibilities for future writers. Let's be honest: what else was there really left to do with the Borg after all the previous shows that wouldn't have been a rehash of something familiar?
The Klingons were antagonists, rivals for the Federation, but I wouldn't describe them as evil and a menace the way the Borgs were.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on May 06, 2022, 05:48:28 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 03, 2022, 11:23:20 PMSo uh this new Strange New Worlds show is getting good buzz from reviewers. Supposed to be a callback to classic episodic Trek. I guess we'll see this Thursday.

New thread or do we talk about that here? :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on May 06, 2022, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 06, 2022, 05:48:28 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 03, 2022, 11:23:20 PMSo uh this new Strange New Worlds show is getting good buzz from reviewers. Supposed to be a callback to classic episodic Trek. I guess we'll see this Thursday.

New thread or do we talk about that here? :lol:

I figured this was the general Star Trek thread :P

I haven't watched it yet anyway. Maybe later today. I did see the finale to Picard and it was cringeworthy. :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2022, 09:07:36 AM
The finale of Picard was better than I expected. I thought it generally wrapped things up "well enough", though looking at the season in full, I feel the story could have been told more efficiently and engagingly in half the runtime, though.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2022, 11:52:56 AM
Really liked SNW. Kinda happy they skip a lot of exposition on the characters which is common in pilots. Also, Anson Mount is still awesome as Pike. :wub:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on May 06, 2022, 11:59:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 06, 2022, 11:52:56 AMReally liked SNW. Kinda happy they skip a lot of exposition on the characters which is common in pilots. Also, Anson Mount is still awesome as Pike. :wub:

Yeah I'm really digging it too. Feels like real Star Trek to me
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2022, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 06, 2022, 11:59:30 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 06, 2022, 11:52:56 AMReally liked SNW. Kinda happy they skip a lot of exposition on the characters which is common in pilots. Also, Anson Mount is still awesome as Pike. :wub:

Yeah I'm really digging it too. Feels like real Star Trek to me

I just thought that it was surprisingly dark, as kind of epilogue to Picard.

SPOILERS: Rios decided to stay behind in 2024 and in SNW we see that basically everything went to shit shortly thereafter. :D (True, he manages to live to old age, but I suppose he may have thought more than once, "If only ... "
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 06, 2022, 01:16:49 PM
More SNW spoiler: Btw, it was fairly on the nose that Pike at the start of the episode watches The Day the Earth Stood Still, and then basically re-enacts the plot on the alien planet. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 07, 2022, 12:49:12 AM
TrekCulture's Ups/Downs video on SNW verbalized something that I guess made the episode good to watch: the cast seemed incredibly comfortable with each other. Sometimes in new shows it can take a bit for a cast to gel. TNG was probably the most obvious case (though the un-fun, stodgy "we're so ethically advanced" Starfleet of early episodes was also a design decision). But this crew comes together quite quickly and easily. And it also helps that they're going for more of a TOS feel - covering serious topics on a macro and personal level - but also having a much lighter tone than Discovery. I enjoy Discovery overall, but it has a tendency to go all in on the melodrama. The last two seasons have tried to lighten the mood a bit (and especially loosening up Michael a lot), but it often comes across as a bit dour.

A few final thoughts on Picard (spoilers, I guess?):

I'm fully ok with the story premise as explained in the final episode, and the "one final adventure" kind of motivation behind it. Q dies, one of his few friends is Picard, so he chooses to lead him on a final chase, and help him repair and come to terms with his childhood trauma that held him back emotionally. That's sweet, and sort of a continuation of the episode Tapestry. Most of the character interactions were great. I liked Rafi/Seven, I liked Rios/Teresa, Picard coming to terms with his past (and playing quite well off James Callis), meeting Renée, young Guinan etc. Alison Pill/Anne Wirsching as Jurati/Queen were awesome. Brent Spiner (mostly) did a good job with what he was given. Isa Briones as Kore gave a good performance. And I loved bringing in Wesley, last seen in the background in ST Nemesis. Tying in the Travelers with the Watchers? Sure! All good stuff. (I'd love a Wesley/Traveler spin off with adventures across time, Sliders or Doctor Who, style.  :blush: ) I expected Q and Seven have some dialogue, since they met on Voyager ("How's your son?"), but I can take or leave it.

But it all felt so needlessly drawn out and often badly paced, with some actually padding and filler in the series. The whole bit with Agent Wells - what was the point? Elnor dying served no purpose except to provide Rafi with some trauma to work through. The ICE subplot helped give Rios/Seven/Rafi some more stuff to do than they otherwise would have, but - on the whole - didn't add a whole lot. Sure it made 2024 look a bit more shitty, but the rest of the episodes don't pick up that thread again. Actually, besides those episodes, most of the problems of that era are told, not shown.

Q's bit at the end - it doesn't always have to be saving the galaxy, sometimes it's ok to just save one person. FULLY AGREE (and I feel esp. Discovery leans way too heavy into the galactic crisis trope), but then why set all this up as seeming much bigger? (And arguably, not fixing one person's trauma would lead to a galactic crisis, so ...) The ending, i.e. what Jurati's Borg (presumably a separate collective from the OG Borg) want ... I guess she can't reveal that she's assimilated Jurati who traveled through time and made new, better Borg right away, esp. with her old self still on the ship, but I guess she could also been a bit clearer from the start as to what she was trying to accomplish. ANYWAYS. This all could have been done in half the time, as said before, trimming A LOT of fat.

I am disappointed that several characters have been written out now - Rios and Jurati (both of whom I really liked). Would have liked seeing more of Captain Rios, but I also guess his style would be perhaps a bit too similar to Pike on SNW now. Kore could have made a decent addition to the crew, but yeah - give her something bigger and better. I suppose they're making some room on the roster for Season 3, and the return of the old main cast. I just hope that the show will have more meaningful plot to fill its runtime, and not stretch it out to breaking point.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on May 07, 2022, 05:47:29 AM
So....Seven's a lesbian? :perv:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 07, 2022, 05:52:43 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 07, 2022, 05:47:29 AMSo....Seven's a lesbian? :perv:

I think bi, based on her Voyager history. Or maybe her dating Chakotay made her realize she'd rather be with women. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: HVC on May 07, 2022, 08:28:17 AM
Strange new worlds is good. At least one episode in.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on May 08, 2022, 06:29:08 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 07, 2022, 08:28:17 AMStrange new worlds is good. At least one episode in.

Seems like, hopefully, they may go with individual episode stories, as opposed to one long story arc (Discovery/Picard). Which I think is good. I like the arcs, but it's also good to have individual stories.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 08, 2022, 12:00:53 PM
Helpful timeline for where SNW fits in:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSP7ihTX0AEaEgZ?format=jpg&name=large)

Looks like they have a decent amount of free room for a couple of seasons. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on May 08, 2022, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 07, 2022, 12:49:12 AMKore could have made a decent addition to the crew, but yeah - give her something bigger and better. I suppose they're making some room on the roster for Season 3, and the return of the old main cast. I just hope that the show will have more meaningful plot to fill its runtime, and not stretch it out to breaking point.

Well, we have the android from the future that looks exactly like her! :P

I did like SNW, strange, as I had developped a dislike for episodic tv shows.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on May 09, 2022, 05:42:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 08, 2022, 12:00:53 PMLooks like they have a decent amount of free room for a couple of seasons. :)

And if they need more, a rupture in the space time continuum can come in handy.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on May 09, 2022, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 08, 2022, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 07, 2022, 12:49:12 AMKore could have made a decent addition to the crew, but yeah - give her something bigger and better. I suppose they're making some room on the roster for Season 3, and the return of the old main cast. I just hope that the show will have more meaningful plot to fill its runtime, and not stretch it out to breaking point.

Well, we have the android from the future that looks exactly like her! :P

I did like SNW, strange, as I had developped a dislike for episodic tv shows.

So did I.  I think it is because that captain is very good.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: viper37 on May 09, 2022, 04:20:54 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 09, 2022, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 08, 2022, 01:35:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 07, 2022, 12:49:12 AMKore could have made a decent addition to the crew, but yeah - give her something bigger and better. I suppose they're making some room on the roster for Season 3, and the return of the old main cast. I just hope that the show will have more meaningful plot to fill its runtime, and not stretch it out to breaking point.

Well, we have the android from the future that looks exactly like her! :P

I did like SNW, strange, as I had developped a dislike for episodic tv shows.

So did I.  I think it is because that captain is very good.
Yeah, Anson Mount was great in that far west show too.  :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: FunkMonk on May 12, 2022, 08:20:32 PM
I finally watched the Deep Space 9 documentary, What We Left Behind.

 :cry:



Also, I loved how they read out the hate mail they received  :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2022, 12:25:00 AM
Really liked the new episode. Though I'm starting to think the tone might be a bit *too* flippant? :D Feels a bit more Farscape or Firefly. I'm not saying we have to go back to the stodgy, stick in the mud Federation of TNG Seasons 1 and 2. Or maybe I'm not used to that tone in Trek outside of Lower Decks. :P

Escapist (of all places) had a decent look at how Star Trek, largely, retreats into nostalgia:

Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: crazy canuck on May 13, 2022, 12:53:38 AM
What is wrong with Firefly
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2022, 12:55:53 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 13, 2022, 12:53:38 AMWhat is wrong with Firefly

Nothing? :unsure:

Just not used to such flippant tone from live action Trek. :P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Josephus on May 13, 2022, 06:12:14 AM
New Star Trek is reminding me a bit of early seasons of Stargate before it went all "Gua Uld" or whatever that race was called. Explore, come across new races, etc.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Tamas on May 13, 2022, 07:20:30 AM
You guys discussing something else than Star Trek Picard in the Star Trek Picard thread disturbs me.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard
Post by: Syt on May 13, 2022, 07:54:42 AM
Maybe Josephus could be convinced to rename the thread. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Josephus on May 13, 2022, 08:45:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 13, 2022, 07:54:42 AMMaybe Josephus could be convinced to rename the thread. :)

Done
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: celedhring on May 13, 2022, 09:43:58 AM
Didn't we have an actual Star Trek thread?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Maladict on May 13, 2022, 10:42:02 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 13, 2022, 08:45:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 13, 2022, 07:54:42 AMMaybe Josephus could be convinced to rename the thread. :)

Done

DS9 is still best Star Trek. Discuss.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: grumbler on May 13, 2022, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: Maladict on May 13, 2022, 10:42:02 AMDS9 is still best Star Trek. Discuss.

Not even close.  The competition with Babylon 5 was good for DS9, and the reverse.  The two best SF shows ever were just two different looks at the same problems.

Having said that, there were a few TNG episodes, like The Inner Light, that were better than any DS9 episode.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2022, 11:50:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSu0Az7XsAIyXoO?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: HVC on May 15, 2022, 12:05:32 AM
Uhm... guess he's never actually watched Star Trek.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Josquius on May 15, 2022, 10:15:17 AM
:lol:

It seems to be a thing with every new star trek series.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on May 15, 2022, 10:30:23 AM
It's funny, though, that the OpEd is by David Marcus. Which is the name of Kirk's son, shanked by Emmett Brown in Star Trek III. :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on May 16, 2022, 12:45:58 PM
Btw, I wonder if Kirk was pissed when he took over the Enterprise after a refit and found the quarters weren't nowhere near what Pike had. :P

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS0FZIvXwAAXURd?format=jpg&name=large)
Huge living area, with open kitchen, bar, and bbq.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSrdnR-X0AUbtQO?format=jpg&name=large)
Real fireplace, and bedroom etc. in a separate room.

Compare with Kirk's abode:

(https://freeyork.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/1_James-T.-Kirk_quarters.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS0FZU3WUAEBXf1?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Tamas on May 16, 2022, 02:34:42 PM
I like Strange New Worlds. Easily better than Picard or Discovery.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: FunkMonk on May 16, 2022, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: Tamas on May 16, 2022, 02:34:42 PMI like Strange New Worlds. Easily better than Picard or Discovery.

This. +1. Amen.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: celedhring on May 17, 2022, 02:58:19 AM
And obviously the one good modern Star Trek show is not available in Spain.

I'm up to episode 4 in Picard. The show started strong but it's kinda losing my interest - maybe because the "travel to the past" trope I've seen it done several times in Trek, and better.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: viper37 on May 17, 2022, 12:04:40 PM
Quote from: celedhring on May 17, 2022, 02:58:19 AMAnd obviously the one good modern Star Trek show is not available in Spain.

I'm up to episode 4 in Picard. The show started strong but it's kinda losing my interest - maybe because the "travel to the past" trope I've seen it done several times in Trek, and better.
I didn't disliked it at first.  Maybe because it was the best modern trek show at that point. :D
Now, Strange New World, they manage to make an hour worth of observing a comet very interesting! :)
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Josephus on May 18, 2022, 06:12:39 AM
Also I found in the most recent SNW, that they seemed to borrow a plot line right from a recent Discovery episode, where they come across an alien being that can only communicate through some pattern (music, math, lights), and of course they have someone onboard who can easily figure that out.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on May 18, 2022, 09:38:46 AM
That's a pretty common trope, though. I found the open questions at the end more intriguing. Was there a sentience working in/through the comet? Would everything have been fine, no matter what?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: viper37 on May 18, 2022, 10:06:20 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 18, 2022, 09:38:46 AMThat's a pretty common trope, though.
It's in Voyager too.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on May 20, 2022, 01:12:10 AM
I'd rate this week's episode as "fine."

Generally glad the show takes time to give people other than Pike and Spock a spot in the limelight. Spoilers:

However, characters having secrets they keep from others - sure. But two in one episode ... bit much? Also, the main plot with the disease was a bit ... dunno, we've seen this plot plenty before, and it didn't really add much new to it (virus traveling on lightwaves or photons? err ... but I guess it fits in well with some of the sometimes dodgy science of, well, all eras and shows of Trek). And the resolution also felt lucky more than earned. I did like the irony, though, of Pike/Spock, who are made out to be in danger, actually being the ones being the safest the whole time.

Side note: Federation is totally against genetic modifications. Ok, fair enough. But we have Bashir, and now Number One who are both genetically modified and serving (granted, for Bashir it was a close call, and for #1 it's not "official" with her bosses yet, but still). Does La'an count as genetically modified? I understand that she's descended from augmented humans, but I'm not sure I caught whether she herself is augmented? Also, I assume if your ancestors were augmented, but you had no modifications - I assume that's fine, since she's serving in Starfleet under a VERY prominent name?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2022, 01:36:33 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 15, 2022, 12:05:32 AMUhm... guess he's never actually watched Star Trek.

Related, this popped up in my Twitter feed today. Trek, promoting transgender acceptance before it was cool. :P :D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTNeHYdXwAAV9of?format=jpg&name=medium)

Jessie Gender on YouTube went over the OpeEd piece, an she pointed out quite rightly that certain conservatives like to pretend that Star Trek always showcased values that everyone would agree on, as kind of centrist, when it really wasn't originally. TOS aired when the civil rights movement was at its peak and had episodes like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, Private Little War (a Vietnam allegory), and of course the Kirk/Uhura kiss.

The article takes especial umbrage with using footage of Jan 6th in Pike's speech about the descent into WW3, and that Stacey Abrams showed up in the Disco S4 finale as President of Earth, and that Trek now clearly endorses one political party, and that people don't want those real world references in their sci-fi escapism.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 20, 2022, 01:12:10 AMSide note: Federation is totally against genetic modifications. Ok, fair enough. But we have Bashir, and now Number One who are both genetically modified and serving (granted, for Bashir it was a close call, and for #1 it's not "official" with her bosses yet, but still). Does La'an count as genetically modified? I understand that she's descended from augmented humans, but I'm not sure I caught whether she herself is augmented? Also, I assume if your ancestors were augmented, but you had no modifications - I assume that's fine, since she's serving in Starfleet under a VERY prominent name?
She is not.  
Spoiler:

There is no mention of it other than her being a natural.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 01:24:13 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 21, 2022, 01:36:33 AMThe article takes especial umbrage with using footage of Jan 6th in Pike's speech about the descent into WW3, and that Stacey Abrams showed up in the Disco S4 finale as President of Earth, and that Trek now clearly endorses one political party, and that people don't want those real world references in their sci-fi escapism.

Babylon 5 had an episode about a family refusing to accept surgery for their son as it was removing the soul from his body.  In the end, the doc performed the procedure and the father killed his son.

In TNG, they established that all lawyers had been killed before or during WW3 (that explains why not many lawyers here seem to watch this show :P ).  They promote equality among all, there is no money (no capitalism) and the only race that is actively pursuing capitalism is generally viewed as evil and cowardly.
In one episode, Riker falls in love with a androgynous being that has no gender.

In DS9, they had a same sex kiss, once.  The Ferengis are mocked for their cowardice, their greed and the total absence of women's rights.  There's a black captain and no one takes issue with it in the universe, no one ever talks of skin color.  I can't remember if Voyager had anything special.  They had an episode about misinterpreting and reinventing history, but beyond that...  And also, I can't remember any particular stuff of Enterprise.

It's not really new that scifi tries to advance social progress.  Discovery went a little too far, because they spent way too much time on transgender issues.  1 and half season worth of this is way too much for that subject.  Just deal with it and advance the plot.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Josquius on May 24, 2022, 01:38:45 PM
I remember DS9 going SUPER into black history month stuff. A fair few episodes with timey wimey Sisko in the past dealing with race issues

I'm only a few eps into the latest series of discovery but I'm not noticing too much transgender stuff other than one transgender couple being characters, and they're being dealt with pretty straight up with their plot being nought to do with trans issues?
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 08:43:29 PM
Quote from: Josquius on May 24, 2022, 01:38:45 PMI remember DS9 going SUPER into black history month stuff. A fair few episodes with timey wimey Sisko in the past dealing with race issues
Funny, Derspiess said mostly the same thing some years ago :P
It was one episode.  It was a dream sequence of some sort, due to some scifiesqe thing I can't remember (wasn't a warp core breach though, that I'm sure :D ).  He lived a past life as a black writer in the 30s.  A woman writer was also hired by the same company with 'Odo' as the manager and they both served as ghostwriter for a white man.

The other episode you might think of, which involved time travel and Sisko was him assuming the role of Gabriel Bell, a revolutionary hero of some sort in the 21st century, after the real one was killed by muggers while defending him. 

But it had nothing to do with race, it was about class warfare, where the poors were confined to some space and totally dependent on government help for basic living while the rich lived in beautiful buildings and had no problems finding work/working.  It was the beginning of the social revolution that ultimately led to the Federation's ideals.  Sometime between that and Kirk's birth, they killed all lawyers and abolished money. :P

QuoteI'm only a few eps into the latest series of discovery but I'm not noticing too much transgender stuff other than one transgender couple being characters, and they're being dealt with pretty straight up with their plot being nought to do with trans issues?
I believe they spent way too much time on this couple where nothing is really happening.  They discuss how she wants to be referred as "They", how the symbiot thing is very similar to modern transgender issues, etc, etc, and I feel it just takes too much time in the show.

There's a gay couple.  They're married.  They don't discuss it ad vitam aeternam.  It's there, it exists, they share an embrace or a kiss, that's all.  Not much focus on their domestic issues or couples therapy.

I'd feel the same if the spent all this time on a hetero couple.  There are plenty of other shows that explores couple's relationships of all kinds.  I'd wish Star Trek was about sci-fi, weird phenomenons, alien-humans relations, space battles, etc. That you casually bring in some modern issues in it, fine.  But don't spend half a season around one couple's relationship.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: crazy canuck on May 25, 2022, 12:13:55 PM
I think I love #1 - doesn't hurt that she has a strong resemblance to Mrs. CC in our younger years  :wub: 
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 25, 2022, 12:13:55 PMI think I love #1 - doesn't hurt that she has a strong resemblance to Mrs. CC in our younger years  :wub: 
She was Mystique in the first X-Men movies.
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: HVC on May 25, 2022, 05:44:34 PM
Wow, didn't know CCs wife was an actress


:P
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: crazy canuck on May 25, 2022, 06:15:55 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 25, 2022, 05:44:34 PMWow, didn't know CCs wife was an actress


:P

She made poor life decisions and weighed herself down with the likes of me.   :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2022, 10:56:45 AM
Only a few minutes in, but:


:w00t:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: Syt on June 02, 2022, 11:50:18 AM
That was a fun, far more lighthearted episode (we don't really get those outside of Lower Decks and Prodigy anymor ... ). I hate the (MAIN TROPE) of the episode, and it's often more cringe-inducing than good (Farscape also had a very fun episode around a similar concept), but I did end up enjoying it. :)

Some really good comedic stuff. Like Una's and La'an's different interrogation techniques. :lol:
Title: Re: Star Trek Picard and Strange New Worlds
Post by: FunkMonk on June 06, 2022, 02:35:53 PM
That episode of Strange New Worlds is probably my favorite piece of Nu Trek. I really enjoyed it. A fine piece of television.

This show is genuinely good. I am very happy Trek is finally finding its footing in this new generation of Trek shows.