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#31
Quote from: Tamas on February 12, 2025, 11:13:50 AMNow, such a flood of bullshit could very well be part of a larger Putinist/Orbanist playbook, but that's not the vibe I am getting so far.

Trumpworld is far from being a single, unified movement; there are a lot of different political sub-factions and personalities; like many successful authoritarian rulers, Trump likes to keep his options open and play divide and conquer within his own camp.

Trump himself has no master plan; his is the ultimate opportunist standard go to strategy is the "wait and see".  But there are definitely a number of people in his revised inner circle that have very carefully studied Orban and Putin and are attempting to push that blueprint.  This goes back to 2017 when Bannon talked about "flooding the zone" to overwhelm resistance but it is far more organized and directed now.  If the vibe seems less coherent it is because the Orbanists are not the only voices in Trumpworld and don't control Trump himself. 

This makes it all the more important for the opposition to respond as if the Orbanists are in control and pursuing the master plan.  There are some signs already that Trump is pulling back from brink of open contempt of the judiciary, but that is only because he is concerned it might backfire.  If he were sure it would work, he'd back the Orbanist bid to enhance his power.
#32
Quote from: Admiral Yi on Today at 05:45:16 AMIf this is the case, why did European leaders across the board  on several different  occasions promise (and fail) to meet the 2% target? 

They promised because they wanted to do it and meant to do it.  They failed because they are democracies with real legislatures.
#33
Off the Record / Re: Grand unified books thread
Last post by Savonarola - Today at 08:30:31 AM
I read David Michaelis's biography of Charles Schulz (Schulz and Peanuts.)  It's a richly detailed account of Schulz's life and quite readable.  I was surprised how much of Peanut's was self referential; he lived in Needles, California as a teenager, he had a cousin Patty who was the model for Peppermint Patty (and the namesake of Patty,) he had a dog named Spike (which was the model for Snoopy,) loved a red headed woman when he was a young man (and seems to have carried a torch for her a very long time.)

I was surprised to learn that he didn't really like children; maybe that shouldn't be such a surprise since those kids are really mean to each other.  I did know that his first wife (Joyce) was the model for Lucy (except in the very earliest strips when she's based on his step daughter Meredith).  It's not a big surprise they eventually divorced, but the strip was never as good afterwards.  I was also surprised that he carried his grudges with him to the grave, even for minor bullying incidents that happened when he was a child.  I would have thought having thirty million dollars and global recognition would have compensated for that.
#34
Off the Record / Re: What does a TRUMP presiden...
Last post by Savonarola - Today at 08:20:51 AM
Paging Dr. Sigmund Freud:

'We Have To F*ck Trump': Congresswoman Delivers Profane Rallying Cry

QuoteThe American Federation of Government Employees gathered Monday on Capitol Hill and rallied "to save the civil service" and oppose Trump's push to reduce the size of the federal government's workforce. Trump has been working with the Department of Government Efficiency's Elon Musk, whose task is to clean up government waste. While speaking to protesters, Dexter was seen at the podium, calling out Trump and teasing her supporters to not "tell her children" she had made a certain statement.

"I've been told I have 30 seconds, so I am going to tell you that we do have to — I don't swear in public very well — but we have to fuck Trump! Please don't tell my children that I just did that!" Dexter said.

Uhm... :unsure: are you sure that's absolutely necessary?  Could we just kiss him on the lips instead, maybe?
#35
Off the Record / Re: The 1619 Project
Last post by HVC - Today at 08:13:16 AM
Very interesting speech by Frederick Douglass.

Also, does that chart include single parent households in the bread winner category?

*edit* that's not to say that the prevalence of single parent homes isn't an important matter to consider, just that I think it's a different topic.
#36
Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...
Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 08:03:17 AM
Again I'm slightly confounded that after 14 years in opposition, and having repeatedly stated (in opposition and then government) that growth is their one priority that Labour are going to take basically a year to actually come up with their industry strategy:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/12/labour-postpones-long-awaited-industrial-strategy
QuoteLabour will not release long-awaited industrial strategy until June
Exclusive: Strategies for life sciences to be published earlier but broader report expected in June

This isn't the only area - there are many other (eg from a security perspective the China audit, for spending departments Treasury reviews) - where government departments are basically just spinning the wheels until x report comes in. They can't announce or do anything significant on huge swathes of policy in advance of these reports, audits, reviews and strategies - but they are also being repeatedly delayed. I think this is a big problem both in terms of government actually doing anything but also the politics (I think part o the reason there's been so much space for the opposition, especially Reform) is that there is a news void where the government should be announcing/doing things.

Also I think it seems very arrogant/complacent to me - at most they've got 5 years to the next election. The last parliament saw a swing from the biggest Tory majority in 30 years to the biggest Labour majority in 25-30 years. People are dissatisfied and volatile. I don't think you can spend your first year (when you've got most political capital to do difficult things) pondering what you're going to do.

It feels like another area where they're failing (and I think this is a European theme to be honest) to meet the urgency of the situation we're in.
#37
Off the Record / Re: The 1619 Project
Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 07:46:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on Today at 06:01:08 AMPosting this here as probably makes more sense there than in the Britain thread (:blush:).

I found this graph interesting as it appears to highlight the importance of intersectionality:
Yeah and to add the compulsory British angle I suspect there'd be similar differences if you looked at it from a class perspective (especially over a longer period).

Working class women were very often workers too - even after marriage and once they'd become mothers. It may have been different types of work - more fragmented, casual, less secure - which I think, to the 70s conversation, is one of the reasons unions failed to organise.
#38
Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...
Last post by Legbiter - Today at 07:46:30 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2025, 05:00:01 PMI could be totally wrong - but my read is that he thinks he's winning already. Western support is not stepping up sufficiently, Russia's economy is bad (but fossil fuel earnings from Europe are at a record high since the invasion), Russia's steadily advancing at a grinding cost. I think his calculation is that he'll get closer to his war aims (which are more maximalist than freezing the conflict now) by just carrying on than by trying to do a deal of some sort now.

The problem Trump has in going over the heads of the Europeans and just freezing the conflict in place is both the abovementioned and that Putin will want him to jawbone the EU into lifting sanctions.  :hmm:

I see this going about as well as his Gaza peace initiative...
#39
Off the Record / Re: Football (Soccer) Thread
Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 07:35:27 AM
Same :ph34r: :lol:
#40
Off the Record / Re: The 1619 Project
Last post by garbon - Today at 06:10:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 02, 2025, 02:19:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 02, 2025, 05:19:58 AMBut isn't that throwing the baby out the bath water?
I never said the entire project should be discarded! :)

I applaud the effort, like many others.

Without looking at the stats the author provided, you can simply take a look at popular culture to see how the Secession war is portrayed in American minds.  Black people were conspicuously absent until most recently.  Glory must be the only movie where Black Men fight for their freedom.  Otherwise, it's always White men vs White Men fighting to free the Black Men (while it wasn't the case at all).

I've never heard of the Tulsa riots until very recently.  Never heard of many such things, actually.

I think she had a very good idea, a good concept, but she failed in the execution and she should have corrected herself, at least admitted her errors.

I understand the passion, I understand the aims of the work, but it is no excuse to rewrite the history.  As Malthus would often say, two wrongs do not make a right.

So I finished her essay and yeah unfortunately she doesn't really own up to her error. Most she did was say 'some' rather than her original statement that made it appear fear that slavery would go away was driving issue for colonist writ large.

Still I did think raises some interesting points with say use of 'forced labor camp' vs 'plantation'. Also interesting was the portrayal of Lincoln. I was definitely never taught that Frederick Douglass had this to say - where he can complicate our mythologizing of Abraham Lincoln and yet still celebrate him and his accomplishments.

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/oration-in-memory-of-abraham-lincoln/
QuoteDelivered at the Unveiling of The Freedmen's Monument in Lincoln Park, Washington, D.C.

Friends and Fellow-citizens:

I warmly congratulate you upon the highly interesting object which has caused you to assemble in such numbers and spirit as you have today. This occasion is in some respects remarkable. Wise and thoughtful men of our race, who shall come after us, and study the lesson of our history in the United States; who shall survey the long and dreary spaces over which we have traveled; who shall count the links in the great chain of events by which we have reached our present position, will make a note of this occasion; they will think of it and speak of it with a sense of manly pride and complacency.

I congratulate you, also, upon the very favorable circumstances in which we meet today. They are high, inspiring, and uncommon. They lend grace, glory, and significance to the object for which we have met. Nowhere else in this great country, with its uncounted towns and cities, unlimited wealth, and immeasurable territory extending from sea to sea, could conditions be found more favorable to the success of this occasion than here.

We stand today at the national center to perform something like a national act—an act which is to go into history; and we are here where every pulsation of the national heart can be heard, felt, and reciprocated. A thousand wires, fed with thought and winged with lightning, put us in instantaneous communication with the loyal and true men all over the country.

Few facts could better illustrate the vast and wonderful change which has taken place in our condition as a people than the fact of our assembling here for the purpose we have today. Harmless, beautiful, proper, and praiseworthy as this demonstration is, I cannot forget that no such demonstration would have been tolerated here twenty years ago. The spirit of slavery and barbarism, which still lingers to blight and destroy in some dark and distant parts of our country, would have made our assembling here the signal and excuse for opening upon us all the flood-gates of wrath and violence. That we are here in peace today is a compliment and a credit to American civilization, and a prophecy of still greater national enlightenment and progress in the future. I refer to the past not in malice, for this is no day for malice; but simply to place more distinctly in front the gratifying and glorious change which has come both to our white fellow-citizens and ourselves, and to congratulate all upon the contrast between now and then; the new dispensation of freedom with its thousand blessings to both races, and the old dispensation of slavery with its ten thousand evils to both races—white and black. In view, then, of the past, the present, and the future, with the long and dark history of our bondage behind us, and with liberty, progress, and enlightenment before us, I again congratulate you upon this auspicious day and hour.

Friends and fellow-citizens, the story of our presence here is soon and easily told. We are here in the District of Columbia, here in the city of Washington, the most luminous point of American territory; a city recently transformed and made beautiful in its body and in its spirit; we are here in the place where the ablest and best men of the country are sent to devise the policy, enact the laws, and shape the destiny of the Republic; we are here, with the stately pillars and majestic dome of the Capitol of the nation looking down upon us; we are here, with the broad earth freshly adorned with the foliage and flowers of spring for our church, and all races, colors, and conditions of men for our congregation—in a word, we are here to express, as best we may, by appropriate forms and ceremonies, our grateful sense of the vast, high, and preëminent services rendered to ourselves, to our race, to our country, and to the whole world by Abraham Lincoln.

The sentiment that brings us here to-day is one of the noblest that can stir and thrill the human heart. It has crowned and made glorious the high places of all civilized nations with the grandest and most enduring works of art, designed to illustrate the characters and perpetuate the memories of great public men. It is the sentiment which from year to year adorns with fragrant and beautiful flowers the graves of our loyal, brave, and patriotic soldiers who fell in defence [sic] of the Union and liberty. It is the sentiment of gratitude and appreciation, which often, in the presence of many who hear me, has filled yonder heights of Arlington with the eloquence of eulogy and the sublime enthusiasm of poetry and song; a sentiment which can never die while the Republic lives.

For the first time in the history of our people, and in the history of the whole American people, we join in this high worship, and march conspicuously in the line of this time-honored custom. First things are always interesting, and this is one of our first things. It is the first time that, in this form and manner, we have sought to do honor to an American great man, however deserving and illustrious. I commend the fact to notice; let it be told in every part of the Republic; let men of all parties and opinions hear it; let those who despise us, not less than those who respect us, know that now and here, in the spirit of liberty, loyalty, and gratitude, let it be known everywhere, and by everybody who takes an interest in human progress and in the amelioration of the condition of mankind, that, in the presence and with the approval of the members of the American House of Representatives, reflecting the general sentiment of the country; that in the presence of that august body, the American Senate, representing the highest intelligence and the calmest judgment of the country; in the presence of the Supreme Court and Chief-Justice of the United States, to whose decisions we all patriotically bow; in the presence and under the steady eye of the honored and trusted President of the United States, with the members of his wise and patriotic Cabinet, we, the colored people, newly emancipated and rejoicing in our blood-bought freedom, near the close of the first century in the life of this Republic, have now and here unveiled, set apart, and dedicated a monument of enduring granite and bronze, in every line, feature, and figure of which the men of this generation may read, and those of after-coming generations may read, something of the exalted character and great works of Abraham Lincoln, the first martyr President of the United States.

Fellow-citizens, in what we have said and done today, and in what we may say and do hereafter, we disclaim everything like arrogance and assumption. We claim for ourselves no superior devotion to the character, history, and memory of the illustrious name whose monument we have here dedicated today. We fully comprehend the relation of Abraham Lincoln both to ourselves and to the white people of the United States. Truth is proper and beautiful at all times and in all places, and it is never more proper and beautiful in any case than when speaking of a great public man whose example is likely to be commended for honor and imitation long after his departure to the solemn shades, the silent continents of eternity. It must be admitted, truth compels me to admit, even here in the presence of the monument we have erected to his memory, Abraham Lincoln was not, in the fullest sense of the word, either our man or our model. In his interests, in his associations, in his habits of thought, and in his prejudices, he was a white man.

He was preëminently the white man's President, entirely devoted to the welfare of white men. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people to promote the welfare of the white people of this country. In all his education and feeling he was an American of the Americans. He came into the Presidential chair upon one principle alone, namely, opposition to the extension of slavery. His arguments in furtherance of this policy had their motive and mainspring in his patriotic devotion to the interests of his own race. To protect, defend, and perpetuate slavery in the states where it existed Abraham Lincoln was not less ready than any other President to draw the sword of the nation. He was ready to execute all the supposed guarantees of the United States Constitution in favor of the slave system anywhere inside the slave states. He was willing to pursue, recapture, and send back the fugitive slave to his master, and to suppress a slave rising for liberty, though his guilty master were already in arms against the Government. The race to which we belong were not the special objects of his consideration. Knowing this, I concede to you, my white fellow-citizens, a preëminence in this worship at once full and supreme. First, midst, and last, you and yours were the objects of his deepest affection and his most earnest solicitude. You are the children of Abraham Lincoln. We are at best only his step-children; children by adoption, children by forces of circumstances and necessity. To you it especially belongs to sound his praises, to preserve and perpetuate his memory, to multiply his statues, to hang his pictures high upon your walls, and commend his example, for to you he was a great and glorious friend and benefactor. Instead of supplanting you at his altar, we would exhort you to build high his monuments; let them be of the most costly material, of the most cunning workmanship; let their forms be symmetrical, beautiful, and perfect; let their bases be upon solid rocks, and their summits lean against the unchanging blue, overhanging sky, and let them endure forever! But while in the abundance of your wealth, and in the fullness of your just and patriotic devotion, you do all this, we entreat you to despise not the humble offering we this day unveil to view; for while Abraham Lincoln saved for you a country, he delivered us from a bondage, according to Jefferson, one hour of which was worse than ages of the oppression your fathers rose in rebellion to oppose.

Fellow-citizens, ours is no new-born zeal and devotion—merely a thing of this moment. The name of Abraham Lincoln was near and dear to our hearts in the darkest and most perilous hours of the Republic. We were no more ashamed of him when shrouded in clouds of darkness, of doubt, and defeat than when we saw him crowned with victory, honor, and glory. Our faith in him was often taxed and strained to the uttermost, but it never failed. When he tarried long in the mountain; when he strangely told us that we were the cause of the war; when he still more strangely told us that we were to leave the land in which we were born; when he refused to employ our arms in defence [sic] of the Union; when, after accepting our services as colored soldiers, he refused to retaliate our murder and torture as colored prisoners; when he told us he would save the Union if he could with slavery; when he revoked the Proclamation of Emancipation of General Fremont; when he refused to remove the popular commander of the Army of the Potomac, in the days of its inaction and defeat, who was more zealous in his efforts to protect slavery than to suppress rebellion; when we saw all this, and more, we were at times grieved, stunned, and greatly bewildered; but our hearts believed while they ached and bled. Nor was this, even at that time, a blind and unreasoning superstition. Despite the mist and haze that surrounded him; despite the tumult, the hurry, and confusion of the hour, we were able to take a comprehensive view of Abraham Lincoln, and to make reasonable allowance for the circumstances of his position. We saw him, measured him, and estimated him; not by stray utterances to injudicious and tedious delegations, who often tried his patience; not by isolated facts torn from their connection; not by any partial and imperfect glimpses, caught at inopportune moments; but by a broad survey, in the light of the stern logic of great events, and in view of that divinity which shapes our ends, rough hew them how we will, we came to the conclusion that the hour and the man of our redemption had somehow met in the person of Abraham Lincoln. It mattered little to us what language he might employ on special occasions; it mattered little to us, when we fully knew him, whether he was swift or slow in his movements; it was enough for us that Abraham Lincoln was at the head of a great movement, and was in living and earnest sympathy with that movement, which, in the nature of things, must go on until slavery should be utterly and forever abolished in the United States.

...