Climate Change/Mass Extinction Megathread

[Sheilbh]

In Sweden, and maybe other places, rather than home boilers a lot of places get their heat from municipal boilers.
I wonder whether the UK has to look more in this direction again- as much as the government actually doing something is a hard battle that needs to be fought.

I think most new urban developments are built to have district heating schemes (I worked on a few district heating contracts at one point - but can't remember any details ). I think there's been lots of talk about renovation of existing estates onto district heating schemes for decarbonisation if only because it's more energy efficient - but I think it's expensive for housing associations, councils etc.

When I was buying a new flat the contract had points around district heating and, from memory, it would be standard individual central heating when you bought. But it was designed to move to district heating and it was something the housing association would notify and you'd all be transitioned onto the new district heating.

As you say I think it's quite common elsewhere.

Maybe you're just not interested in railway and home electrification? It crops up quite a bit.

Yeah I can't see it being of much use on railways. Railways seem perfect for electrification because they are a fixed grid already so you just need to electrify that.

[crazy canuck]

You always see it thrown up as an excuse not to do the electrification work we need despite it being such untested technology.

I never see it thrown up as an excuse not to do the electrification work we need to do.

You also didn't know who The Weeknd is.

@ Jos, In Canada we see a lot of talk of developing hydrogen.  It's too early to tell if it is just a political maneuver to appease fossil fuel producers (a lot of the talk is coming out of Alberta and BC) or it is a good faith attempt to develop the tech.

Thompson's article seems to indicate both might be needed.  But, at least in this country with access to ample Hydro, the main reason she cites does not exist.

That might mean we can develop a hydrogen industry for export, but that would mean investing much more than we are now in order to capture those foreign markets and that would require a leap of faith that they will ever exist to create the demand.

On the whole I think all the talk is, as you have said, an excuse to avoid putting in the needed changes to fully electrify.  As an illustration, Alberta has made a controversial decision to put the development of solar and wind on hold to "study" the storage issue. 

[Tamas]

Ugh, my friends who live(d) in blocks where there is what you call district heating, were not a fan. I am sure its more economic but having your heating on/off based on some authority's timetable can be decidedly un-fun.

[crazy canuck]

What is district heating?

[Sheilbh]

What is district heating?

Basically a heating network across multiple buildings, particularly blocks of flats or an entire neighbourhood of terraced housing. Traditionally there's basically a central boiler normally burning fossil fuels or bio-fuel. But you can move them to lower or zero carbon energy and the infrastructure is alreading place to distribute the heat and it can be linked with cooling systems to capture the heat they generate. They're only really relevant in urban areas - but as well as climate changes we are an increasingly urbanising world so.

There's very low uptake in the UK. Most of our big estates weren't built in that way (but I think there's quite a lot of variation as it was largely post-war council housing and I think some councils were enthusiastic adopters and others, not). But, I think now most new developments in cities are built with the intent of eventually moving to district heating - so they have the right plumbing just not the actual central boiler bit. But they're very common elsewhere - I think especially in Scandinavia.

[The Brain]

Yeah it's standard in Sweden. Never experienced any trouble with it.

[Iormlund]

If we really want to tackle housing emissions, we need to find a way to improve insulation in older buildings.

I recently moved to a new flat. Even with 45 degrees C outside, I can get room temperature to 25 C if I want to, throughout the day. And the system is working less time than my poor A/C did last summer.

[Josquius]

If we really want to tackle housing emissions, we need to find a way to improve insulation in older buildings.

I recently moved to a new flat. Even with 45 degrees C outside, I can get room temperature to 25 C if I want to, throughout the day. And the system is working less time than my poor A/C did last summer.

There's that too.
A huge issue in the UK though. So many cowboys looking to make money ripping off various schemes.

[Sheilbh]

If we really want to tackle housing emissions, we need to find a way to improve insulation in older buildings.

I recently moved to a new flat. Even with 45 degrees C outside, I can get room temperature to 25 C if I want to, throughout the day. And the system is working less time than my poor A/C did last summer.

Ideally both - my general view on net zero is, to nick that film's title, that we need to be doing everything everywhere all at once. Including investing the R&D side as well as the stuff we can do now.

There's that too.
A huge issue in the UK though. So many cowboys looking to make money ripping off various schemes.

Yeah - although there's also just practical issues. We have older housing stock than most of Europe because of the war. For exampe, my flat is in a pre-WW1 building which means it has solid walls. So most insulation options basically will eat into the floor area. We've got lots more housing stock with solid walls so cavity insulation isn't a possibility and losing 6-10cm of your floor space along the walls is not an attractive option.

I've spent a lot of time trying to research the one that would be best while also taking up least space and it's difficult. The options I've found are all pretty Grand Designs and very expensive too (very much a long term plan ). Although I had a general panic having moved into my own flat and being responsible for it. Because in the long run I intend to do all the things that will help de-carbonise it - heat pump, new central heating system to make that more efficient, move everything to electric where my supplier's all renewable, new windows, insulation etc. Obviously that all adds up and will basically take maybe 10+ years of saving But I basically spent a few days spinning out over whether I should do any decorating given that it's livable or just focus on saving to do all that stuff

[crazy canuck]

What is district heating?

Basically a heating network across multiple buildings, particularly blocks of flats or an entire neighbourhood of terraced housing. Traditionally there's basically a central boiler normally burning fossil fuels or bio-fuel. But you can move them to lower or zero carbon energy and the infrastructure is alreading place to distribute the heat and it can be linked with cooling systems to capture the heat they generate. They're only really relevant in urban areas - but as well as climate changes we are an increasingly urbanising world so.

There's very low uptake in the UK. Most of our big estates weren't built in that way (but I think there's quite a lot of variation as it was largely post-war council housing and I think some councils were enthusiastic adopters and others, not). But, I think now most new developments in cities are built with the intent of eventually moving to district heating - so they have the right plumbing just not the actual central boiler bit. But they're very common elsewhere - I think especially in Scandinavia.

Thanks 

[Tonitrus]

Socialized heating?

It will never fly in Trumperica.

[Admiral Yi]

Socialized heating?

It will never fly in Trumperica.

One furnace for a couple adjacent high rises or low rises, no one would notice.

One furnace for a row of town houses: communism.

[Valmy]

Even with 45 degrees C outside

 

You serious? Hope its a dry 45 degrees C.

[mongers]

Even with 45 degrees C outside

 

You serious? Hope its a dry 45 degrees C.

Iberia is really suffering, Portugal is in flames.

Also didn't a Texan city hit it's all time record of 44.4C yesterday?

Missed the city's name, Maybe El Paso ??

[crazy canuck]

Finally raining here but only for a couple of days. I am afraid it's too little too late for a number of trees.  There is going to be a large expense removing all that dead wood from the urban/forest interface.

I am not sure what climate zone we are in now, but it sure isn't the temperate rainforest it once was.