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#11

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 06:48:44 PM

But also I think that's part of the problem with Wayne Couzens and why they went down this route?

From my understanding there weren't any allegations that went to a final determination of facts. Instead there were lots of cases with no further action due to "evidential difficulties", insufficient evidence or a victim not proceeding to make a statement about their complaint. But all of those allegations or complaints would absolutely be picked up as part of vetting to join the police - and should have been when he became a firearms officer. Especially as lots of those allegations were sexual and targeted at women which indicates a pattern of behaviour.

So I think it was exactly that type of risk they were trying to determine - not necessarily that there's been an incident that can be proven that indicates someone's a danger, but a number of incidents and complaints that indicate the person might not be worthy of the trust or power of being a police officer.

It maybe requires a change in law which Rowley's trying to force but I feel like there's a case for basically having vetting being an open ongoing process for police (and I'd expect the same for, say, security services) rather than a one off decision at the point of joining or moving into more specialised units.

#12

Off the Record / Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics...

Last post by Grey Fox - Today at 06:44:37 PM

A flown Canadian flag here means it's a) Fuck Trudeau numbnut or b) old stock Anglo.

I'm going to fly my Vietnam flag on July 4.

#13

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Jacob - Today at 06:43:09 PM

That's pretty much a matter of definition though isn't it?

There's no shortage of left-wing authoritarians and dictators around the world and throughout history, from Chavez, Castro, Mugabe, Mao, Stalin and the like.  They may often share a number of characteristics with ring-wing dictators and authoritarians (so-called "horseshoe theory".)

But because they're from the left they would get called socialists or communists, and never fascists.

I've long ago given up on the "but the Nazis were really left-wingers - their name was even National Socialists".  It carries too much of an element of "no true Scotsmen"-type analysis, and ignores the historical fact that Mussolini and Hitler were broadly creatures of the political right (even though Mussolini's early days were as a socialist).

But don't make the mistake of thinking that makes the political left nothing but virtuous and pure.

You are right, that when left wing dictators come in their path may be eased by non-dictatorially inclined leftists who support them "for the revolution" or "for the working class" and so on.

But we are not facing the threat of a leftist dictatorship. We're facing the threat of Fascism. As such, I think it would behoove conservatives who value democracy and freedom to examine their positions and ensure they're not chasing a few extra points in the democratic contest by facilitating a Fascist takeover.

#14

Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-2...

Last post by The Minsky Moment - Today at 06:27:16 PM

Zelensky is offering $500 trillion of rare earth.  Also $1 quadrillion of uncommon earth.

#15

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by garbon - Today at 06:24:52 PM

My other thought is that if you are going to dismiss someone because you think they are a danger to others, pursue that route. Don't go admin procedure to remove vetting and then oh we can declare you fit for dismissal by reason of gross incompetence as we won't let you access necessary systems without vetting. Oh and you've no right to any hearing on this until up for dismissal hearing. And nothing you can really do at that hearing as vetting decision is set in stone by then.

Feels all bureaucracy stacking the deck against you in a very unfair manner.

But this might be connected to need for more powers given to Met?

#16

Off the Record / Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics...

Last post by Barrister - Today at 06:20:44 PM

I sort of think there's something to the fly the flag - if only in a way to make the point that Canada's real. But then I tend to be sympathetic to expressions of national identity against imperialists.

Canada is not the UK though.

I see far more Canadian flags in Canada than I did Union flags in the UK.  (Note - Quebec is likely different)

#17

Off the Record / Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 06:17:09 PM

Because they are very nice people.

Apparently, the US has a trade surplus with them.


Not that there is a trade deficit with Canada either.  It's only true if we exclude services.

I think that's right - similar with the UK so far not getting called out. We basically have either a very small goods trade deficit or surplus with the US (the UK and US calculate it slightly differently - but either way it's basically balanced). I think it's different if you add in services but I could be wrong.

Also Australia signed that minerals deal with the US under Biden so I think they're in that bloc when it comes to raw materials.

FWIW I have made an effort to stock up on Canadian flour and maple syrup last week - will continue to buy Canadian when I see it.

I sort of think there's something to the fly the flag - if only in a way to make the point that Canada's real. But then I tend to be sympathetic to expressions of national identity against imperialists.

#18

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 06:09:38 PM

I think it sounds like the Met was playing fast and loose with Operation Assure/Onyx. Rowley was trying to clean up the force however he could without the government giving him proper powers to do so. I think he's whining now to try to jar them into action.

It feels to me like they did a messy job of trying to line him up for departure. I started reading part of the judgment and it looks like there were numerous mistakes/errors in the process - including in the facts relied on for removing his vetting.  Repeatedly the allegations that were made against him were not substantiated and/or dropped by CPS and he was actually even promoted during the period in question.

Now where there is smoke, there is probably fire, but feels like the Met botched it and the government has botched it by not yet updating the regulations on what the Met can do.

Interesting - thanks. I think you could be right this is Rowley trying to force the government's hand given that repeated Home Secretaries have backed what he's been trying to do with this (as has Sadiq) since 2022. But apparently none of them have actually changed the law so the police chiefs have that power - and I remember posting about Rowley complaining about his hands being tied a couple of years ago so I suspect he probably just tried to go ahead knowing it was possibly arguable at court in order to force the government to actually do something.

From my read I'm not so convinced on people - or the CPS - dropping cases given the really bad statistics on that here. I think less than 5% of rape reports to police end in someone being prosecuted, the conviction rate is even worse. It does feel like there's a pattern of concerns when you've got two women alleging rape, others indecent exposure, domestic abuse, inappropriate touching making women feel unsafe and complaints from the public. As you say if nothing else, definitely a "where there's smoke" situation.

I'm less convinced by the judgement particularly the "anomalous" situation she finds that there is a legal requirement for police officers to hold vetting clearance but withdrawal of vetting clearance is not lawful grounds for dismissal of a police officer. Also I think the obiter dicta that the way a police force could dismiss someone for failing to disclose something material for their vetting clearance is by withdrawing it and dismissing them (as withdrawing of vetting amounts to gross misconduct) makes sense to me - and I'm not convinced she's right on that. And I broadly agree with the College of Policing argument that vetting is an administrative/management procedure rather than a hearing that engages Article 6 rights to a fair trial. I'm more convinced by the third ground.

I suppose underpinning this is that I think the fact of allegations or complaints by members of the public and other police officers is a relevant factor in whether someone should be considered vetted as appropriate to have the trust and legal powers of a police officer. I don't think they necessarily have to go all the way of either the officer accepting the allegations/complaints, or formal proceedings making findings.

#19

Off the Record / Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics...

Last post by viper37 - Today at 06:02:22 PM

Conservatives are out of ideas.  Apparently, they'll all be dressed in red this week-end.

#20

Off the Record / Re: [Canada] Canadian Politics...

Last post by Barrister - Today at 05:44:24 PM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fly-the-flag-former-prime-ministers-1.7456407

5 former prime ministers say fly the flag on Saturday to stand up to Trump
This weekend marks 60 years since red maple leaf was first raised on Parliament Hill

John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Feb 11, 2025 1:56 PM MST | Last Updated: 1 hour ago

All of the country's living former prime ministers are asking Canadians to fly the red maple leaf this weekend in a huge display of national pride as the country stares down U.S. President Donald Trump's threats to its economy and sovereignty.

Joe Clark, Kim Campbell, Jean Chrétien, Paul Martin and Stephen Harper have jointly written an open letter, telling Canadians to "show the flag as never before" as the country contends with "threats and insults from Donald Trump."

So look - I feel like I can say this as someone who has his own 16' flagpole in his own front yard and proudly flies the Canadian flag almost all the time.  I sometimes swap out a few other flags on special occasions (including the Stars and Stripes on July 4, or a skull-and-crossbones around Halloween) but 95% of the time it's a Canadian flag.

But really - how are Canadian flags going to "stand up to Trump"?  It's not like Trump himself is going to come strolling up my street and see my flag.

I'm a little more open to "buy Canadian" efforts and am trying to do so, but it's hard because of how integrated our economies are.


(Actually this reminds me - I need to put up the Ukrainian flag on Feb 22 to mark the three year anniversary of the invasion)


(and yes - I'll probably skip the Stars and Stripes this July 4)


(and I keep meaning to get a Red Ensign flag to mix in once in a while.)


(yes I like flags)