Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Valmy]

What is ridiculous is that in this particular case, people on the left are actually using the fact that the right does this as a way of simply dismissing actual criticism of "woke" politics. This is happening right here in this very thread, right now.

I don't know exactly what Woke politics is. I think gays should be allowed to adopt children and get  married. I think trans people should have their rights respected. I think those are good things. Generally what I agree with is criticisms of means, like using bullying and deplatforming and other mob justice techniques. I am completely on board with Woke Politics, as I understand it. Though granted I don't fully get what exactly it refers to. If you have some legitimate reason I should be against leftwing social politics let me know. I thought we were talking about assholes and fanatics and their actions.

And the thing I was talking about was using terms used to criticize the actions of the fanatics and using them to attack their beliefs rather than their actions.

[Valmy]

...people keep pointing out to him that that isn't how things work and he just keeps pushing ahead with his idiocy. Absolutely astounding. The reports of the companies he buys having success despite him and having to have a whole division to keeping him from breaking things and coddling his ego seems more and more accurate by the day. What an out of touch and awful manchild. It's like all of the worst traits of the children from Willy Wonka got amalgamated into one person. 

Well he is wasting 44 Billion dollars on a money losing company when that capital is needed for SpaceX and Tesla. That sucks. I feel like he is betraying his own causes.

[Valmy]

If I had to define "woke" in one word, there is a very good word for this:  Latinx.  It neatly captures almost everything that is wrong with the woke.

Oh yeah that sucks. And kind of racist. If Spanish needs to be fixed why aren't we also fixing the other Romance languages? Where is ItalianX? FrançaiX? It is because Spanish is the language of the barbaric brown skins who need to be enlightened. Leave their damn language alone you stupid fucks.

I will use the term LatinX the moment the Spanish speakers in this Hemisphere ask that I use it and not a moment before. Not some busybody English speakers.

[Sophie Scholl]

Well he is wasting 44 Billion dollars on a money losing company when that capital is needed for SpaceX and Tesla. That sucks. I feel like he is betraying his own causes.

I feel like his causes are making money, gaining power, and trying to be popular and seem smart. His hobbies happened to match up with and lean into his causes for a while, but they were never his true passions. Now we're seeing how little those hobbies really meant to him when measured against his true motivators.

[garbon]

If I had to define "woke" in one word, there is a very good word for this:  Latinx.  It neatly captures almost everything that is wrong with the woke.

Oh yeah that sucks. And kind of racist. If Spanish needs to be fixed why aren't we also fixing the other Romance languages? Where is ItalianX? FrançaiX? It is because Spanish is the language of the barbaric brown skins who need to be enlightened. Leave their damn language alone you stupid fucks.

I will use the term LatinX the moment the Spanish speakers in this Hemisphere ask that I use it and not a moment before. Not some busybody English speakers.

I don't personally care for the term but not sure why you would decide the motivating factor was racism.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-history-latinx

[grumbler]

If I had to define "woke" in one word, there is a very good word for this:  Latinx.  It neatly captures almost everything that is wrong with the woke.

Oh yeah that sucks. And kind of racist. If Spanish needs to be fixed why aren't we also fixing the other Romance languages? Where is ItalianX? FrançaiX? It is because Spanish is the language of the barbaric brown skins who need to be enlightened. Leave their damn language alone you stupid fucks.

I will use the term LatinX the moment the Spanish speakers in this Hemisphere ask that I use it and not a moment before. Not some busybody English speakers.

I don't personally care for the term but not sure why you would decide the motivating factor was racism.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-history-latinx

It apparently makes people feel better to believe that this is a word that arrogant white leftists are trying to impose on the poor helpless Hispanics.  Dunno why. 

[Jacob]

If I had to define "woke" in one word, there is a very good word for this:  Latinx.  It neatly captures almost everything that is wrong with the woke.

What's wrong with Latinx? I mean, it doesn't exactly flow off the tongue I'll give you that... but I don't think that's your issue with woke?

[garbon]

If I had to define "woke" in one word, there is a very good word for this:  Latinx.  It neatly captures almost everything that is wrong with the woke.

What's wrong with Latinx? I mean, it doesn't exactly flow off the tongue I'll give you that... but I don't think that's your issue with woke?

I'd imagine something along the lines of what is noted in this article.

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/

But that makes me think the problem (as it were) is less about being woke and about what happens to terminology when it spreads from a minority group to mainstream visibility (and other cultural contexts).

The same sort of thing that happened with the terms 'woke' and 'cancelled'.

[Sheilbh]

If I had to define "woke" in one word, there is a very good word for this:  Latinx.  It neatly captures almost everything that is wrong with the woke.

What's wrong with Latinx? I mean, it doesn't exactly flow off the tongue I'll give you that... but I don't think that's your issue with woke?

I'd imagine something along the lines of what is noted in this article.

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/

Yes. Also I think a sense of Latinx being used heavily in the American academy. My understanding is that in Spanish speaking countries Latine is preferred and I've started to see it used more in North American/English-speaking academic context in place of Latinx.

But that makes me think the problem (as it were) is less about being woke and about what happens to terminology when it spreads from a minority group to mainstream visibility (and other cultural contexts).

The same sort of thing that happened with the terms 'woke' and 'cancelled'.

I think there's a lot to that and it's always the issue when a term has meaning in a specific context because of the community using and understanding it - whether it's technical or whatever else.

It's why I always hate the Private Eye sneering in "Pseud's Corner" is because very often it's just the use of vocabulary that has a meaning in a specific context being pulled out of that and held up for mockery.

I think the slight circular feedback of activism and academia is perhaps an issue that maybe exacerbates this perception. Not just around Latinx or woke but other ideas that have come from a part of a community, then been incorporated into theory at an academic level then being re-used by well-educated activists out of that community without necessarily the understanding or grounding or background to use it appropriately. Then it gets distorted from its original context.

[Tamas]

Whew, that's a relief.

We figured out that anyone criticizing the left is just an attempt to deny other peoples basic freedoms!

Now we can all pat each other on the back and not have to worry about left wingers anymore!

We won't even notice the irony of shutting down criticism from within our own ranks by ad hominem in the service of "free speech"!

A bunch of upper class wealthy white progressives canceling dissent by others, who are progressives as well, and who have expressed their desire for progressive ideals their entire life--and they did so because they claim they support progressivism! It's just delicious!

Great, so the disclaimer added by me and OvB was conveniently ignored by you, since that lets you dismiss our point altogether.

I can have this level of "debate" with any randoms on Reddit or wherever, so I'll leave you guys to it.

[The Brain]

To me the most important political dividing line today, just like in the 20th century, is not between right and left, but between those who are pro-democracy and pro-freedom of speech and those who are anti-democracy and anti-freedom of speech.

[Admiral Yi]

I think there's a lot to that and it's always the issue when a term has meaning in a specific context because of the community using and understanding it - whether it's technical or whatever else.

It's why I always hate the Private Eye sneering in "Pseud's Corner" is because very often it's just the use of vocabulary that has a meaning in a specific context being pulled out of that and held up for mockery.

I think the slight circular feedback of activism and academia is perhaps an issue that maybe exacerbates this perception. Not just around Latinx or woke but other ideas that have come from a part of a community, then been incorporated into theory at an academic level then being re-used by well-educated activists out of that community without necessarily the understanding or grounding or background to use it appropriately. Then it gets distorted from its original context.

How should Latinx be used appropriately?

[Sheilbh]

How should Latinx be used appropriately?

I think it's probably helpful in queer diaspora communities in the Anglo world and in academic research on that.

Outside of that I'd go for Latine if you're looking for gender neutral or queering because it's from within the language.

[garbon]

Yes. Also I think a sense of Latinx being used heavily in the American academy. My understanding is that in Spanish speaking countries Latine is preferred and I've started to see it used more in North American/English-speaking academic context in place of Latinx.

Which makes sense given its origins as a term in the US. As you've highlighted before, there is a bit of a problem when activists/academics try to transplant the same terminology to other socio-political contexts.

[garbon]

How should Latinx be used appropriately?

I'd think it probably sits in similar space to Xicano and then according to this link Xicanx (which I hadn't seen). More of ingroup term / academic discussion of those movements.

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/xicano/