Israel-Hamas War 2023

[DGuller]

The blame for those civilian targets getting hit lies squarely and singularly on the Palestinian government of Gaza, because it's they that made those civilian constructions into legal military targets.

I'll distribute a little bit of blame to the Western useful idiots as well.  Putting civilians on top of weapon caches works because the useful idiots in the West make it work.  If the useful idiots were a little less proud of being unwilling to be convinced, and a little more interested in truly trying to understand what was being done and by whom, maybe Hamas would find that this tactic actually makes them look like the bad guys.  They're not stupid, they won't stick to a tactic that won't work.

[PJL]

The blame for those civilian targets getting hit lies squarely and singularly on the Palestinian government of Gaza, because it's they that made those civilian constructions into legal military targets.

I'll distribute a little bit of blame to the Western useful idiots as well.  Putting civilians on top of weapon caches works because the useful idiots in the West make it work.  If the useful idiots were a little less proud of being unwilling to be convinced, and a little more interested in truly trying to understand what was being done and by whom, maybe Hamas would find that this tactic actually makes them look like the bad guys.  They're not stupid, they won't stick to a tactic that won't work.

Agree with this.

[Razgovory]

Nope. You got it right. I am not quoting anyone and made no claims to be doing so.
Looking at the footage...yeah, that's terror bombing.

How do you know?  How do you identify "terror bombing"?

[OttoVonBismarck]

He doesn't know. Anytime Jihadi Josq uses the term "terror bombing" he has admitted he is simply lying, spreading Hamas propaganda for evil intent.

[grumbler]

Josquius is a fascist.  I'm not relying on any specific evidence of that. Looking at his posts...yeah, that's fascist writing.

[garbon]

Josquius is a fascist.  I'm not relying on any specific evidence of that. Looking at his posts...yeah, that's fascist writing.

He does want to make people live in vertical boxes and forbidden from driving cars...

[OttoVonBismarck]

Being more serious my guess is Josq is just too enmeshed in lefty "culture" which uncritically blasts everything Israel does and isn't willing to actually inform himself beyond his preconceptions.

[Grey Fox]

Being more serious my guess is Josq is just too enmeshed in lefty "culture" which uncritically blasts everything Israel does and isn't willing to actually inform himself beyond his preconceptions.

It's not Israel, it's anything that arms, in any way, vulnerable populations.

[Josquius]

Being more serious my guess is Josq is just too enmeshed in lefty "culture" which uncritically blasts everything Israel does and isn't willing to actually inform himself beyond his preconceptions.

Except I've already established that isn't the case no matter what undead useful idiots like yourself might say. I'm getting my reporting on this largely from the BBC.

As to terror bombing

The term terror bombing is used to describe the strategic bombing of civilian targets without military value, in the hope of damaging an enemy's morale.

Argue if you like that Israel has something else in mind. But by all appearances its hard to see what that could be.
Certainly this 'triggered at the mere insulation Israel are bombing civilians' pearl clutching is a silly extremist viewpoint.

I'll distribute a little bit of blame to the Western useful idiots as well.  Putting civilians on top of weapon caches works because the useful idiots in the West make it work.  If the useful idiots were a little less proud of being unwilling to be convinced, and a little more interested in truly trying to understand what was being done and by whom, maybe Hamas would find that this tactic actually makes them look like the bad guys.  They're not stupid, they won't stick to a tactic that won't work.

[
Don't forget the useful idiots who will defend Israel no matter what they do so they can get away with civilian casualty rates on a level that would be in no way acceptable to western militaries.
If only they were a little less proud of being unwilling to be convinced, and a little more interested in truly trying to understand what was being done and by whom, maybe Israel would find that this tactic actually makes them look like the bad guys. They're not stupid, they won't stuck to a tactic that won't work.

[Razgovory]

Israel has done thousands of strikes in Gaza.  Of those how many lacked military value?

[Threviel]

As to terror bombing

The term terror bombing is used to describe the strategic bombing of civilian targets without military value, in the hope of damaging an enemy's morale.

Argue if you like that Israel has something else in mind. But by all appearances its hard to see what that could be.
Certainly this 'triggered at the mere insulation Israel are bombing civilians' peal clutching is a silly extremist viewpoint.

No-one here is arguing in the slightest that the IDF isn't bombing and killing lots of civilians, because they are doing that. What we are arguing is that the reason they are doing that is that the government of Gaza has built its military infrastructure on the basis that the IDF has to kill a lot of civilians to get at them, so that dumb half-wits ignorants like yourself will go around and sprout dumb half-wit ignorant bullshit and create political pressure to get Israel to stop bombing military targets in Gaza.

We are arguing that the party responsible for those civilians dying is the party that uses civilians as human shields to their military infrastructure. 

I don't think I have either enough time or crayons enough to explain it in a way you understand. 

[Admiral Yi]

Absolutely there's no certainty.

Then why are you incapable of expressing uncertainty when talking about terror bombing? 

[Jacob]

Threviel - IMO it's pretty clear that Josq's point of view is - as Grey Fox says - that the way the Palestinian civilian population is being harmed by Israel's attack is terrible and unconscionable; and furthermore that he doesn't think  "it's Hamas fault because of where they operate", "it's the Palestinians' own fault because they elected Hamas and opinion polls say they still support them", or "well, it's a war and civilians die in wars unfortunately" changes that.

Drawing pictures with crayons or finding different ways to state that Hamas terrible, that Hamas is deliberately using civilians as cover, that Israel is following the laws of war, or that Israel has to respond because of the atrocities inflicted upon its own civilian population is not going to change that.

It's not a matter of explaining the facts - I think they're pretty clear by now (with some allowances for the fog of war). Nor is it a matter of explaining the reasoning - everyone's clearly explained their positions several times over.

What is happening is that you are assigning different weights to competing moral factors and assessing the facts differently.

[Razgovory]

It seems really weird to describe Hamas as a terrorist group.  It makes it sound like the Red Army Faction.  They govern a territory with the population similar to Latvia.  They have a bigger army than Sweden's (at least active duty).  They have courts, government services, ministries... I think they may have surpassed "terrorist group".

[Razgovory]

He doesn't know. Anytime Jihadi Josq uses the term "terror bombing" he has admitted he is simply lying, spreading Hamas propaganda for evil intent.

I really don't want to call Josq names (even though for some reason he thought I was a Trump supporter), I kinda like Josq.