Quo Vadis GOP?

[grumbler]

Now given my record with Republican presidential candidates, this will be the kiss of death - and I don't actually expect him to necessarily do well, or even run.

But I think Chris Christie's speech about Trump is exactly the right strategy and approach. And it feels like he's the first Republican candidate (including 2016) to actually spot that to beat Trump you actually need to campaign against him, not hold back in the hope that you can pick up a lot of his supporters. It doesn't work.

I'd be astonished to se Christie run again, after his big "fuck you, constituents" departure from office in New Jersey.  I know Republicans won't hold his very public blowjobs of Trump against him, but a lot of shit will come out of New Jersey if he runs again.

[Eddie Teach]

Christie bears quite a bit of blame for Trump winning the first time round. His withdrawal and endorsement started the avalanche.

[Zanza]

 

I guess they only care about the 2nd, not the 1st Amendment in Texas.

[Eddie Teach]

Oh ffs. 

[Syt]

Dangerous move. Some kids may start to expect politicians to follow the commandments

[viper37]

Dangerous move. Some kids may start to expect politicians to follow the commandments

The one about adultery would really fuck some careers.

[Valmy]

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor 's wife, nor his manservant, nor
his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy neighbor 's

Women and servants are property 

Anyway this bill claims it should be displayed as a cultural deal, like kids should at least know what the Ten Commandments say.

Though will they if they use the archaic King James translation?  And they should at least include the masoretic text version

Though I guess the fact that nowhere in the King James Bible does this list appear kind of makes that difficult.

The first version of the Ten Commandments is in Exodus 20 and reads thusly:

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Thou shalt not kill.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

And then in Exodus 34 we get this version of the Ten Commandments:

And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.

For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

And then in Deuteronomy 5 we get ANOTHER version that goes like this:

I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Thou shalt not kill.

Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

Neither shalt thou steal.

Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

None of these say:

"I AM the LORD thy God.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make to thyself any graven images.
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy
Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the
land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor 's house.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor 's wife, nor his manservant, nor
his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy
neighbor 's.

So why not commit to one Bible passage and have it in its original language if you want to highlight it as a cultural thing instead of some kind of weird cliffnotes version that is not only not in the Bible but not even in the original language. It creates a false narrative, that this text is a list of a quote from the Bible instead of a list derived from the Bible. Also the Catholics and Lutherans famously have a different list of Commandments. Also some explanatory text about how this list was created and what it represents would be nice.

It is one of the things that greatly annoyed me when I read the Bible in college after years of just sort of learning about it via osmosis by growing up in a protestant cultured place. Almost everything I learned about the Bible turned out to be sort of "truthy" but not actually what the Bible said. Just kind of an approximation, that overall kind of added up to a false impression. So I guess now kids of this generation will learn something else about the Bible that isn't actually in the Bible, it is just a sort of an approximation of what it says. 

Also Deuteronomy never explains what keeping the Sabbath day has to do with God bringing the Jews out of Egypt. Just, you know, keep it because I brought you out of Egypt. Huh? What does that have to do with keeping the Sabbath day? So I guess editing down the text removes annoying little passages that distract.

But it brings up a thing I would challenge this law on: how can it be a cultural issue if the original text is not quoted? Instead it is an interpretation of the Ten Commandments, a theological interpretation that disagrees with St. Augustine's list. Isn't that saying the Catholics are wrong? That could be avoided by simply quoting the text instead of advancing a Protestant interpretation. Odd that all those biblically literalist Republicans wouldn't want the Bible quoted instead of an interpretation of the Bible.

I don't know the numbers of the prayer and bible study in class bills so I haven't been able to read them yet. Though if this bill is any indication they will not be studying the actual Bible, but rather some theological interpretation that represents mainline Protestantism (well...except the Lutherans in this case) and will clean up all the messy parts.

[Hamilcar]

Tucker Carlson out at FOX, probably as part of the Dominion settlement. Will he:
1. Retire quietly to Moscow
2. Join some other rightwing nutjob media
3. Start his own nutjob media?
4. Run for president?

[Valmy]

Also I think editing the text enables the government to remove that pesky part about:

for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Wouldn't want kids to think there was anything horribly unjust in the Bible. Best to wait until they actually read it and hope most never bother.

[Valmy]

Tucker Carlson out at FOX, probably as part of the Dominion settlement. Will he:
1. Retire quietly to Moscow
2. Join some other rightwing nutjob media
3. Start his own nutjob media?
4. Run for president?

Told you man: Daily Wire.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Reminder: Tucker owns the DailyCaller, I'd assume he would use that as his platform?

[Tonitrus]

I am sure he will get a show on OAN or RT any time now.

[Barrister]

I am sure he will get a show on OAN or RT any time now.

Those are pretty small potatoes compared to the 8pm slot at Fox News.

PArt of me hopes that he has a come to Jesus moment, renounces Trump and his ilk and just speaks the truth about the last8 years.  But instead I think he likes the power, attention and money so I'm not holding my breath.

[viper37]

I am sure he will get a show on OAN or RT any time now.

They're also getting sued for spreading lies about the election.  I doubt they'll hire him.

[Syt]

I mean the leaked text messages show that he knew he was spreading misinformation about election fraud and that he thought the Trump presidency was a desaster - would that affect his popularity amongst the far right?