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Quo Vadis GOP?

Started by Syt, January 09, 2021, 07:46:24 AM

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viper37

Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2022, 11:50:19 AMHell, 90% of Languish's political content over the last decade is various flavors of "Holy shit the US is fucked up!"
Hey! It's not our fault you're trying your damn best to make it true!


;)
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

grumbler

Quote from: viper37 on June 21, 2022, 03:51:00 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2022, 11:50:19 AMHell, 90% of Languish's political content over the last decade is various flavors of "Holy shit the US is fucked up!"
Hey! It's not our fault you're trying your damn best to make it true!
(snip)

;)


I don't believe for a second that Berkut is trying his damn best to make it true.  :huh:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

viper37

Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2022, 04:26:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 21, 2022, 03:51:00 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2022, 11:50:19 AMHell, 90% of Languish's political content over the last decade is various flavors of "Holy shit the US is fucked up!"
Hey! It's not our fault you're trying your damn best to make it true!
(snip)

;)


I don't believe for a second that Berkut is trying his damn best to make it true.  :huh:
Is it my fault if English has only one pronoun for the individual and the collective? ;)
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Razgovory

Quote from: viper37 on June 21, 2022, 03:51:00 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2022, 11:50:19 AMHell, 90% of Languish's political content over the last decade is various flavors of "Holy shit the US is fucked up!"
Hey! It's not our fault you're trying your damn best to make it true!


;)

That's the face of nationalism.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Larch

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 20, 2022, 04:59:50 PMStill low-key think he might be the candidate in 2024 :ph34r:

Apparently Trump already has him in his crosshairs...  :ph34r:

Quote'I think I would win': Donald Trump takes aim at Ron DeSantis
As the Florida governor rises in the polls, Trump begins to disparage his former ally

The bromance between Donald Trump and the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, appears to be waning as the prospect of the two extreme-right Republicans facing off for the party's presidential nomination grows, with Trump declaring "I think I would win."

As DeSantis's popularity among the Republican base grows nationwide – thanks in part to his regular combative appearances on Fox News and anti-liberal rhetoric – his dramatic ascent in the polls and his refusal to rule out running for president has clearly riled Trump.

True to form, Trump has begun his offensive by taking credit for his likely rival's success.

"If I didn't endorse him [DeSantis], he wouldn't have won," Trump told the New Yorker, which published an in-depth story profiling DeSantis's rise. The former president said that he and DeSantis had a "very good relationship", adding "I'm proud of Ron."

Trump endorsed DeSantis in 2017 over then-Republican frontrunner Adam Putnam after being impressed by the former athlete's combative stance.

Trump, who could soon be forced to give testimony under oath in a New York state civil investigation into his business practices, said he was "very close to making a decision" about launching a third consecutive presidential run, which he has been hinting at ever since losing the 2020 election – a truth he still refuses to publicly accept.

"I don't know if Ron is running, and I don't ask him," Trump said. "It's his prerogative. I think I would win."

In a handful of polls DeSantis, who faces an election for the governor's mansion later this year, comes out ahead of Trump in the race for the Republican presidential nomination. Without Trump, he commands a big lead. (Lagging way behind in third place is the Texas senator Ted Cruz.)

The governor's rising star and declining interest in hanging out with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in Florida, are fuelling resentment among the former president's inner circle. One Republican political consultant told the New Yorker, "Trump World is working overtime to find ways to burn DeSantis down. They really hate him�."

Perhaps worried that neither his fanbase nor DeSantis subscribe to the New Yorker, Trump said much the same when asked for his thoughts on the 43-year-old governor running for the White House during a phone interview with the rightwing TV station Newsmax on Monday.

"I have a good relationship with Ron, I don't know that he wants to run. I haven't seen that. You're telling me something that I've not seen, so we'll see what happens," he said. "But no, I was very responsible for getting him elected."

In another move that's unlikely to please Trump, some wealthy donors who supported Trump's failed 2020 election race have started contributing to a political committee tied to DeSantis, Politico reported on Sunday. For many this was their first time donating to a candidate in a Florida state-level election.

grumbler

Quote from: viper37 on June 21, 2022, 06:23:23 PMIs it my fault if English has only one pronoun for the individual and the collective? ;)


It is your fault that you used a word that applied neither to Berkut individually, nor Berkut in any collective.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

viper37

#1911
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2022, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 21, 2022, 03:51:00 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 21, 2022, 11:50:19 AMHell, 90% of Languish's political content over the last decade is various flavors of "Holy shit the US is fucked up!"
Hey! It's not our fault you're trying your damn best to make it true!


;)

That's the face of nationalism.
Yet, she calls herself a patriot.  :hmm:
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Razgovory

Yet she calls her self a nationalist.  That's what nationalism looks like from the outside.  That's how strange and laughable and menacing it looks.  That's what you look like when you start going on about nationalism or that weird pro-confederate secessionist argument you make sometimes.  Quebec has left-wing nationalists so maybe they look different, but this is what right-wing nationalism looks like.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Zoupa

Wake me when a pro-secession Qc MP starts blabbing about Jewish controlled space lasers.

viper37

Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2022, 11:33:11 PMYet she calls her self a nationalist.  That's what nationalism looks like from the outside.  That's how strange and laughable and menacing it looks.  That's what you look like when you start going on about nationalism or that weird pro-confederate secessionist argument you make sometimes.  Quebec has left-wing nationalists so maybe they look different, but this is what right-wing nationalism looks like.
I was joking because you guys always insist there's some magical difference between the good, pure patriot and the evil cold-hearted nationalist.

It's exactly the same.  Right wing or left wing does not even matter.  As much as I dislike the left, Sweden and Finland were never the USSR.  Reagan years in the US were not Nazi Germany.

The American Patriots where white men fighting against other white men because they feared their slaves would be taken from them, because they did not want Catholics to have any rights and because they wanted the lands that belonged to Indian tribes.  The rest is as accessory as the Confederacy denouncing some high tariffs as the cause of their own war of independence.

You can be a proud American by not being racist, despite your founding fathers being mostly slavers and against racial equality.

America had racial issues since before it became a country.  Nationalism, as a political concept, is an invention of the 19th century.  It only became a problem when it mixed with imperialism, of which it shares many core issues.  But hey, the problem is certainly that some people are proud of their culture and want it to thrive.  Certainly not that some country invades its weaker neighbors to grab their resources, right? :)

People like MJT are no different than many other politicians of the past.  Winston Churchill let the Indians from Bengal starve for the good of the Empire and generally considered all non British to be inferior.  He was merely a product of his times.  Consider this:
Since 1939, the United Kingdom had been drawing grain and manufactures from India for the war effort, and the colonial government had been printing money to pay for these purchases.  The resulting inflation had combined with other factors to precipitate famine in early 1943.  The following summer, the Government of India asked the War Cabinet for half a million tons of wheat by year-end.  The cereal would feed India's two-million-strong army and workers in war-related industries; if any happened to be left over, it would relieve starvation.  The mere news of the arrival of substantial imports would cause prices to fall, because speculators would anticipate a drop in prices and release any hoarded grain to the market.  Churchill's close friend and technical advisor, Lord Cherwell, demurred, however: he erroneously argued that India's food problem could not be solved by imports.  In any case, expending valuable shipping on Indians "scarcely seems justified unless the Ministry of War Transport cannot find any other use for it," he added in a draft memo.  (In the final version, this sentence was changed to a straightforward recommendation against sending grain.)

This is imperialism, as has been done since antiquity.  Politicians like MJT add nothing new.  They ain't part of some "revolutionary new" political movement.

If you want to be specific to the US, there were always racist US politicians, opposed to immigration and/or wanting to use the power of their army to crush dissent or expand their territory. They existed long before we talked of nationalism.

Imperialism is the problem.  The belief that somehow, your country is superior to all others.  Not the pride once can derive in its cultural group.  Mix imperialism with conservatism, and you got the modern GOP.  We are the best in the world and we should absolutely not change anything.  Add a dose of religious fervor, and you have a recipe for disaster.

But keep blaming it on nationalism all you want.  It'll just blow harder in your face.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: viper37 on June 22, 2022, 10:49:09 AMThe American Patriots where white men fighting against other white men because they feared their slaves would be taken from them, because they did not want Catholics to have any rights and because they wanted the lands that belonged to Indian tribes. 

John Adams would be very surprised to learn that.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Brain

Women want me. Men want to be with me.

DGuller

Doesn't learning by definition include an element of surprise?  If you're not surprised when you learn something, then didn't you already know it and thus didn't learn it?

The Brain

Quote from: DGuller on June 22, 2022, 11:30:45 AMDoesn't learning by definition include an element of surprise?  If you're not surprised when you learn something, then didn't you already know it and thus didn't learn it?

Like the guys in Treasure Island when Tim Gunn appears.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

frunk

Quote from: DGuller on June 22, 2022, 11:30:45 AMDoesn't learning by definition include an element of surprise?  If you're not surprised when you learn something, then didn't you already know it and thus didn't learn it?

You could know that something was within a range of possibilities, and then found out which one it was.  You have learned the result, but not necessarily be surprised that it is that particular result.