http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/14/its-time-total-war-warhammer-confirmed/
Pants, dairy factory.
:masturbatefuriously:
Might be the first total war game I own since Shogun.
I wonder what area will be covered (assuming there is a strategic map as well).
Only the Old World or also the lands past Kislev and Araby, or Ulthuan and Naggaroth?
One way or another, it's time to bring the Fleshlight (geddit?) of Slaanesh to the benighted world. :perv:
Now, I feel like forcing our GM to run a Warhammer FRP campaign (he will hate me as we have just restarted an Aberrant one) :nerd:
Total War: Hammer
Also, 100s of DLC Army packs that you have to texture yourself. :P
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2015, 06:20:57 AM
Also, 100s of DLC Army packs that you have to texture yourself. :P
:lol:
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2015, 06:20:57 AM
Also, 100s of DLC Army packs that you have to texture yourself. :P
:D
Ah good I do enjoy the Fantasy Empire. Can I have Karl Franz swoop down on his griffin? By Sigmar I hope so.
There's no way they'll get this right. :(
The MP of this would be glorious, too.
Quote from: Iormlund on January 14, 2015, 02:48:19 PM
There's no way they'll get this right. :(
But we can hope. My Skaven hordes will soon be squeaking.
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2015, 06:20:57 AM
Also, 100s of DLC Army packs that you have to texture yourself. :P
:D
Sadly, there's NO way they won't fleece us with troop DLCs.
What about the End Times? :o
Hopefully this slides in before the End Times and isn't marred by that.
Sweet!
Quote from: Iormlund on January 14, 2015, 02:48:19 PM
There's no way they'll get this right. :(
Eh well I actually enjoyed the MMO and it is regularly considered one of the biggest failures of all times. So when it comes to Warhammer I guess I can take comfort that my standards are low.
Quote from: Valmy on January 15, 2015, 01:33:33 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on January 14, 2015, 02:48:19 PM
There's no way they'll get this right. :(
Eh well I actually enjoyed the MMO and it is regularly considered one of the biggest failures of all times. So when it comes to Warhammer I guess I can take comfort that my standards are low.
So much potential there....
I enjoyed the MMO too, but it competed with WoW and was not different enough, so...
The MMO was so much of a potential lost. It had a great promise, but the realisation was piss-poor. And I mean simple stuff, like jumps and running animations and sounds of combat.
It seems what WoW has done is so simple - until you check how the competition is doing.
Edit: Which reminds me, need to check on my Followers' missions. BRB.
Quote from: Solmyr on January 15, 2015, 03:53:04 PM
I enjoyed the MMO too, but it competed with WoW and was not different enough, so...
I preferred it to WoW, The problem for me was the game was built to be played by a greater concentration of players than they had on each individual server. One of the big mistakes they made was having too many servers available at the start. Once they introduced the additional classes (that everyone wanted) and it was too late because a lot of people had already given it up.
Had good fun with WAR, but since it didn't have enough stuff to keep people around...
Still waiting for that official announcement.
Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2015, 04:56:28 PM
Still waiting for that official announcement.
Was this necro really necessary?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 06, 2015, 11:31:18 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 06, 2015, 04:56:28 PM
Still waiting for that official announcement.
Was this necro really necessary?
Tim is the thread police? That's rich.
I'd really prefer 40k.
Quote from: Queequeg on March 07, 2015, 07:32:26 PM
I'd really prefer 40k.
Really don't think that would work via Total War's format.
Trailerfied:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i4d3ignBNQs
:yeah:
Ah yeah! There is Karl Franz and his griffon!
TW was really made to do a WH game. Best of all they can go crazy with the flaming pigs and I will not even mind.
Hnnnnnnnnnhhhhhhhhhh
Quote from: Habbaku on January 14, 2015, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on January 14, 2015, 02:48:19 PM
There's no way they'll get this right. :(
But we can hope. My Skaven hordes will soon be squeaking.
No Skaven in the trailer. Also, no Elves, no Chaos.
Quote from: Syt on April 23, 2015, 12:10:21 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on January 14, 2015, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on January 14, 2015, 02:48:19 PM
There's no way they'll get this right. :(
But we can hope. My Skaven hordes will soon be squeaking.
No Skaven in the trailer. Also, no Elves, no Chaos.
:huh: The narrator summoned a greater demon of Tzeenetch at the end.
Yeah, I also thought the narrator represents the Chaos.
Elves getting in is a given. Ratmen are less clear, although i'd really like to see them and think they are an iconic part of warhammer fantasy.
Wood elves reek of a later DLC.
How would they represent the Skaven underhives? A seperate map like they did with N. America in Empires?
Also, you guys are right about Chaos.
The only think I dread is the unholy alliance of Games Workshop and Creative Assembly can unleash a true hell of 10000 overpriced unit DLCs.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 24, 2015, 02:10:18 AM
How would they represent the Skaven underhives? A seperate map like they did with N. America in Empires?
Sounds like more effort than they'd expend- I imagine they'd just be in tilea where they have nominally aboveground locations. I am interested to see how they will handle the map, considering how much I suspect will be held in DLC- Will the whole western part of the old world be terra incognita? It seems hard to ignore, but Wood Elves and Bretonnian Knights are hard to imagining shipping with launch.
I just hope they make more gameplay improvements than they have in previous games.
So many titles and years yet things remain very very samey. It just doesn't impress as it once did
Holy cow! :o
EDIT: Only the Empire, Orks, Vampire Counts, and Dwarves will be player races initially. There's going to be so many DLCs with this one. <_<
http://www.gameinformer.com/games/total_war_warhammer/b/pc/archive/2015/06/04/total-war-warhammer-shows-off-its-epic-battles.aspx?utm_content=buffer47a83&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer (http://www.gameinformer.com/games/total_war_warhammer/b/pc/archive/2015/06/04/total-war-warhammer-shows-off-its-epic-battles.aspx?utm_content=buffer47a83&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
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It seems that Valmy's love affair with Karl Franz is over. :weep:
EDIT 2: Seems that the Empire begins disunited and KF has to unite the Electors.
More articles
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2931537/total-war-warhammer-brings-refreshing-changes-to-a-series-mired-in-its-own-legacy.html
http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/06/04/warhammer-is-what-total-war-was-meant-for
http://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer/total-war-warhammer-revealed-creative-assembly-unleash-a-beast
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 07, 2015, 06:06:20 AM
It seems that Valmy's love affair with Karl Franz is over. :weep:
EDIT 2: Seems that the Empire begins disunited and KF has to unite the Electors.
These traitorous counts will be brought to heel swiftly and ruthlessly by Sigmar :ultra:
Elector-counts is kind of weak, especially given the scale. They should be Prince-Electors like the HRE. At least Dukes or Archdukes.
:rolleyes:
Having the title of Duke, Archduke or Prince does not make one automatically stronger than a Count.
Quote from: Habbaku on June 07, 2015, 10:16:51 PM
:rolleyes:
Having the title of Duke, Archduke or Prince does not make one automatically stronger than a Count.
There are exceptions, but most people with those title will be stronger than a Count, the later two much stronger.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 07, 2015, 06:54:14 PM
Elector-counts is kind of weak, especially given the scale. They should be Prince-Electors like the HRE. At least Dukes or Archdukes.
You are mixing things up. HRE Electors never had the title of Prince, they were titled Kurfursts which got translated into Latin/English as "Prince Elector" but is more a description of a role, than a title (in the same way Machiavelli's "Prince" does not talk about people titled "Prince" but sovereign monarchs).
The actual titles of the original lay Prince Electors were King, Duke, Count Palatine and Margrave, respectively, so hardly all "Dukes" or "Archdukes" (in fact there was only one Archduke in the HRE).
You are correct, but what really matters in this discusion is the perception. Warhammer, both Fanstasy and 40K, thrive on being over the top as possible. Prince-Elector sounds like a much more impressive title in English than Elector-Counts, thus the first should be used.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 08, 2015, 02:15:37 AM
You are correct, but what really matters in this discusion is the perception. Warhammer, both Fanstasy and 40K, thrive on being over the top as possible. Prince-Elector sounds like a much more impressive title in English than Elector-Counts, thus the first should be used.
I think they wanted to differentiate it somehow from the real world HRE, so it is not an exact carbon copy. Besides (though not sure the game designers really went that deep) the Empire in the Old World seems to be more centralised than the HRE was, so the title Count sounds more appropriate.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130914012346%2Fcardfight%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ffc%2FShut-Up-And-Take-My-Money-1024x1280.jpg&hash=65b6d795b9258caa26aa6469b321801863b0b5dc)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 07, 2015, 05:50:22 PM
More articles
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2931537/total-war-warhammer-brings-refreshing-changes-to-a-series-mired-in-its-own-legacy.html
http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/06/04/warhammer-is-what-total-war-was-meant-for
http://www.pcgamesn.com/total-war-warhammer/total-war-warhammer-revealed-creative-assembly-unleash-a-beast
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 08, 2015, 02:15:37 AM
You are correct, but what really matters in this discusion is the perception. Warhammer, both Fanstasy and 40K, thrive on being over the top as possible. Prince-Elector sounds like a much more impressive title in English than Elector-Counts, thus the first should be used.
Count sounds more exotically continental and foreign.
Calling them Elector Earls but just mean a subset of Tory voters.
Interview with CA.
https://youtu.be/SZ5BRXPPBoo
A 15 year anniversary Total Warhammer trailer. Almost all retrospective footage, but Valmy's crush has an awesome entrance at the 1:57 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gluogeTdqng
Also, here's a steamtank screenshot
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn4.dualshockers.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2FNEW_TotalWar_WH_Steamtank_1434013263.jpg&hash=b8a269b3a1c6fe6328b7f13ba6e49e907685ce20)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 17, 2015, 12:11:50 AM
A 15 year anniversary Total Warhammer trailer. Almost all retrospective footage, but Valmy's crush has an awesome entrance at the 1:57 mark.
That was pretty dreamy you have to admit.
Ruined by bad music.
Horrible, horrible music.
My ears were too busy orgasming to Deathclaw's roar to notice.
A few seconds of leaked footage.
https://gfycat.com/AmbitiousNeighboringInvisiblerail
Rock Paper Shotgun article
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/19/total-war-warhammer-units/
Some dude talking about his experience at E3 talking to the devs and watching them play the game. The hype train is rolling!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R80wYsso5sc
Hard to be hype for a game that will be gimped on release. Even assuming it somehow evades a shaky creative assembly launch, it's still going to be coming out with four (or five? Chaos is unclear) factions.
How they set out to have a warhammer fantasy with no elves of any stripe is beyond me. Similarly, Skaven are a unique and very fun part of the setting that feel very conspicuous in their absence. Given their anemic release, I find it odd they went with dwarves, who are so comparatively unpopular and have such overlap with empire anyway.
In a year after it's had its stabilizing patches and the various piecemeal faction releases have been doled out, it'll be worth picking up. Even then, i'm suspicious the more fringe factions like Wood Elves, Lizardmen or Ogres will ever get to see the light of day.
Dwarves are awesome and integral to warhammer.
But yes. I am skeptical. It will probably be yet another TW siege em up/ rugby scrum battle sim
Quote from: Lettow77 on June 22, 2015, 12:22:59 PM
Hard to be hype for a game that will be gimped on release. Even assuming it somehow evades a shaky creative assembly launch, it's still going to be coming out with four (or five? Chaos is unclear) factions.
How they set out to have a warhammer fantasy with no elves of any stripe is beyond me. Similarly, Skaven are a unique and very fun part of the setting that feel very conspicuous in their absence. Given their anemic release, I find it odd they went with dwarves, who are so comparatively unpopular and have such overlap with empire anyway.
In a year after it's had its stabilizing patches and the various piecemeal faction releases have been doled out, it'll be worth picking up. Even then, i'm suspicious the more fringe factions like Wood Elves, Lizardmen or Ogres will ever get to see the light of day.
There are going to be two expansions, that's another six to eight factions right there without even taking DLC into account. The Wood Elves, as a faction that borders the Empire will certainly make the cut.
I find it impossible to get hype before I see the strategic map.
Angry Joe interviews Creative Assembly Battle Designer Simon Mann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgIWhf8-SA
EDIT: Army painter DLC mentioned.
Am I the only one who hates that these days you can hardly read any coverage anymore - everybody is just making a fucking video?
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2015, 03:15:06 AM
Am I the only one who hates that these days you can hardly read any coverage anymore - everybody is just making a fucking video?
I agree that it is horrible. I don't want to watch a fucking video.
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2015, 03:15:06 AM
Am I the only one who hates that these days you can hardly read any coverage anymore - everybody is just making a fucking video?
Depends. For gameplay impressions/reviews I find videos actually better these days, and a reviewer can cover more ground in a 10 or 15 minute video than a 2,000 word article.
I dunno, these two spent about 20 minutes getting excited about close combat animations that will go largely unscrutinized, and "kinetic frontlines", whatever that is supposed to mean. With less than 30 seconds they got to army painting DLC, although the statements were far vaguer and less concrete than how UTTERLY AWESOME it is to watch demigryph knights charge in from above with their spears.
Found it odd he didn't at least ask about Chaos; suppose he was already briefed on his talking points.
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2015, 03:15:06 AM
Am I the only one who hates that these days you can hardly read any coverage anymore - everybody is just making a fucking video?
I think videos do a better job providing coverage of a visual medium like video games.
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I think videos do a better job providing coverage of a visual medium like video games.
They do, yeah, but sometimes a written article can get a little more in depth about things than a relatively short video review. I think it's IGN that has both for a lot of games, which is nice.
Quote from: The Brain on June 23, 2015, 03:28:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2015, 03:15:06 AM
Am I the only one who hates that these days you can hardly read any coverage anymore - everybody is just making a fucking video?
I agree that it is horrible. I don't want to watch a fucking video.
Goat Simulator?
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 23, 2015, 11:25:55 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 23, 2015, 03:28:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2015, 03:15:06 AM
Am I the only one who hates that these days you can hardly read any coverage anymore - everybody is just making a fucking video?
I agree that it is horrible. I don't want to watch a fucking video.
Goat Simulator?
I didn't get the game, even when it was on sale. :(
New article with a bit more information.
http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-heroes-quests-mounts-and-magic/
QuoteThe campaign map, which they're not showing today, will be something completely new to Warhammer, set in the Old World in a non-specific timeline. Writer / loremaster Andy Hall explains that, though turns pass, no real time does. There isn't even weather. It's like living in a perfect instant of Warhammer. "There aren't seasons in the Warhammer world anyway. One day it's raining teeth... the next, the sun's under the sea."
They need to rein this hack in. No seasons in Warhammer? Leaves Orion holding the bag as he waits for a spring that will never come to be reborn, to be sure.
:wacko:
It baffles me that they didn't call it Total War:hammer.
Quote from: Lettow77 on July 09, 2015, 07:54:44 AM
New article with a bit more information.
http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-heroes-quests-mounts-and-magic/
QuoteThe campaign map, which they're not showing today, will be something completely new to Warhammer, set in the Old World in a non-specific timeline. Writer / loremaster Andy Hall explains that, though turns pass, no real time does. There isn't even weather. It's like living in a perfect instant of Warhammer. "There aren't seasons in the Warhammer world anyway. One day it's raining teeth... the next, the sun's under the sea."
They need to rein this hack in. No seasons in Warhammer? Leaves Orion holding the bag as he waits for a spring that will never come to be reborn, to be sure.
The main reason I pretty much gave up Warhammer stuff was the fact that they keep changing the fluff. Takes me a couple of years to paint an army, I can't keep up.
Demigryph video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE2zVdapXIU
Trailer coming out on Friday!
It's here! :punk:
https://youtu.be/epK0ouN0l7U
Still no gameplay. :boring:
This seems to be the exact scene we've had a dozen articles describe, and what the journalists were showed. They sure are keeping this on the rails.
Quote from: Lettow77 on July 09, 2015, 07:54:44 AM
New article with a bit more information.
http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-heroes-quests-mounts-and-magic/
QuoteThe campaign map, which they're not showing today, will be something completely new to Warhammer, set in the Old World in a non-specific timeline. Writer / loremaster Andy Hall explains that, though turns pass, no real time does. There isn't even weather. It's like living in a perfect instant of Warhammer. "There aren't seasons in the Warhammer world anyway. One day it's raining teeth... the next, the sun's under the sea."
They need to rein this hack in. No seasons in Warhammer? Leaves Orion holding the bag as he waits for a spring that will never come to be reborn, to be sure.
This seems to point towards the rumours about the changes in the warhammer world being true- they've essentially moved the timeline forward 200 years and in the process utterly destroyed the world, with remaining living beings existing on floating spheres in the aether that occasionally bump into each other (thus giving logic to why the lizardmen would be fighting the vampire counts)
The Age of Sigmar thing already came and happened. Warhammer fantasy is essentially gone, but this game is preserving it in a jar- all of the fluff for this game is set prior to End Times, which is why we see karl franz fighting the battle of black fire pass.
Pants, Dairy Factory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKPw86ivR7A&feature=player_embedded
Tainted. :(
What's the Age of Sigmar?
Quote from: Queequeg on August 23, 2015, 08:19:31 AM
What's the Age of Sigmar?
The new Warhammer Setting and rule set, after they destroyed the Old World in an apocalyptic Event.
Quote from: Malicious Intent on August 23, 2015, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on August 23, 2015, 08:19:31 AM
What's the Age of Sigmar?
The new Warhammer setting and rule set, after they destroyed the Old World in an apocalyptic Event.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 23, 2015, 08:19:31 AM
What's the Age of Sigmar?
Complete shit from what I've heard.
Warhammer Fantasy: Space Marines
Age of Sigmar is basically Games Workshop totally dropping warhammer from what I've heard :(
Dwarven Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL7pBMxdX6o
Gameplay video of a Dwarven quest battle. The flamethrowers are incredible.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iK0BMkKmwB4
Angry Joe preview
Goes over the same battle as the video above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qvOZEj6VaiE
Chaos confirmed as a day 1 DLC.
Of course, its free if you pre-order, but who would pre-order a CA game?
WWAAAAGGHHH!!!
Orc Trailer
https://youtu.be/DbvY_fij9E8
Orc campaign gameplay footage
https://youtu.be/vJUWImJUZrU
Guy goes over some interesting mechanics
https://youtu.be/4seC8E8W4DU
Why is no one commenting? :(
Savage Orcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cF7ruMXhF2Q
You've tainted it, and it is TW.
It's got four (five if you pre-order!) out of over a dozen factions. They are introducing a new system in which you can only conquer cities of your "nemesis race", doing a lot to undermine sandbox total war gameplay where you paint the map.
We still haven't seen anything about the vampire counts, although we've seen the full roster of the DLC race they evidently are sufficiently far along with to put in the official game trailers but not include in the finished product.
They stated Athel Loren can't be entered, so that rules out any chance of interacting with Wood Elves. Silent on beastmen, which should also be all around the empire and a major force in the Old World that's being depicted.
There's really not much to get excited about.
Quote from: Lettow77 on December 30, 2015, 05:39:07 AM
It's got four (five if you pre-order!) out of over a dozen factions. They are introducing a new system in which you can only conquer cities of your "nemesis race", doing a lot to undermine sandbox total war gameplay where you paint the map.
You can also conquer members of your own race and you can raze the settlements of everyone else.
As the Empire or the Dwarves, painting the map is definitely not the name of the game in this setting.
Also, we've seen the vampires on the map spreading corruption in Bretonia.
More straightjacketed by the confines of what's "realistic for your faction" than the games that are based on actual history.
Time was you could conquer all Europe as the Aragonese, or sack Cairo as the Scots Ascendant. I remember unifying the British Isles as the picts..with their crossbowmen.
But we wouldn't want the Dwarves to start a new hold in Bretonnia. That wouldn't be realistic.
If this is their tune, what do they plan to do for the Wood Elves, who are basically a one-province wonder whose crowning strategic goal is to stay innawoods?
Quote from: Lettow77 on December 30, 2015, 06:56:30 AM
More straightjacketed by the confines of what's "realistic for your faction" than the games that are based on actual history.
Time was you could conquer all Europe as the Aragonese, or sack Cairo as the Scots Ascendant. I remember unifying the British Isles as the picts..with their crossbowmen.
But we wouldn't want the Dwarves to start a new hold in Bretonnia. That wouldn't be realistic.
If this is their tune, what do they plan to do for the Wood Elves, who are basically a one-province wonder whose crowning strategic goal is to stay innawoods?
You can liberate the settlements of allies as well.
As for the rest, quests. There's going ti be quests upon quests and that is where the game will succeed or fail.
Noted. I will look forward to fighting my own faction and or returning allies' provinces. The game is nothing if goblin peacekeepers can't return occupied Sylvania to its rightful owners, the Von Carsteins.
But, quests? Who plays Total War for the quests?
In fact, who plays Warhammer for the quests?
A bunch of scripted battles and arbitrary requirements sounds like its the opposite of what makes Total War fun.
Quote from: Lettow77 on December 30, 2015, 05:39:07 AM
It's got four (five if you pre-order!) out of over a dozen factions. They are introducing a new system in which you can only conquer cities of your "nemesis race", doing a lot to undermine sandbox total war gameplay where you paint the map.
We still haven't seen anything about the vampire counts, although we've seen the full roster of the DLC race they evidently are sufficiently far along with to put in the official game trailers but not include in the finished product.
They stated Athel Loren can't be entered, so that rules out any chance of interacting with Wood Elves. Silent on beastmen, which should also be all around the empire and a major force in the Old World that's being depicted.
There's really not much to get excited about.
That sounds like something easily fixed by a mod, to be honest.
Bretonians vs. Orks
Looks absolutely beautiful.
https://youtu.be/p_AD4gHVrWU
Vampire Counts! :punk:
https://youtu.be/uj605sogy3I
I wondered what occasioned the lack of TimReporting about the latest updates.
The Bretonnia battle is very odd because it has no knights in it whatsoever, when knights are the core of a Bretonnian force with peasants as a supporting afterthought. It's concerning that the enemy had a legion of mounted peasants who suicided themselves against the orc line far in advance of the main Bretonnian battle line, doubly so as the Bretonnians were on the defense and had a massive ranged advantage with several units of Trebuchets and many longbowmen.
The Vampire Counts reveal has been more overtly troubling, though; the Undead have fatigue and morale for some terrible reason. I assume CA was not willing to make the leap and abandon the system they've been using since Shogun 1.
Either way, we now have zombies that get scared stiff and skeletons that can become dead tired. It's very bad. The fact that they've been very constraining and conservative with how much resurrecting you can do, or that all Undead can run at any time (but it tires them!) would be more concerning if it wasn't for the glaring problem of fatigue/morale.
Of the factions released so far, Vampire Counts are the furthest removed from "traditional" total war, but rather than expanding the mold to accommodate them, they've been lazily shoehorned into it.
They recently announced they'd be greatly simplifying sieges and doing away with 360-degree surrounding of cities, replacing it with a more direct attack on one wall, and that they've widened the streets and ramparts for more room for maneuver. This will help the hobbled AI, but I might have hoped they'd raise the AI to meet its problems rather than lower the bar.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2016, 12:21:02 AM
The Vampire Counts reveal has been more overtly troubling, though; the Undead have fatigue and morale for some terrible reason. I assume CA was not willing to make the leap and abandon the system they've been using since Shogun 1.
Either way, we now have zombies that get scared stiff and skeletons that can become dead tired. It's very bad. The fact that they've been very constraining and conservative with how much resurrecting you can do, or that all Undead can run at any time (but it tires them!) would be more concerning if it wasn't for the glaring problem of fatigue/morale.
You got a link for that? I heard that only the Vampires themselves had morale, not their undead minions.
I don't know how you heard that one- Morale is the cornerstone for Total War's interpretation of the Crumble mechanic.
When their morale is low, instead of routing, they start crumbling.
Fatigue is the cornerstone of Total War's interpretation of Total War's fatigue mechanic.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/169878/info-from-the-vampire-counts-stream/p1
This thread has most of what you need. In this image we can see that Black Guard are less prone to scaring than mere Skeletons and thus crumble much less, which would make sense if we were dealing with another race's elite and standard infantry, but is contrary to how the Vampire Counts have always worked up until now.
(https://15254b2dcaab7f5478ab-24461f391e20b7336331d5789078af53.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/totalwar.vanillaforums.com/editor/ma/64o45hdn9kh1.png)
Edit: Viewer discretion is advised, but the following is a graphic depiction of spooked, weary bones:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frghost.ru%2F8HPrVnnks%2Fimage.png&hash=44d238a2c570e6b6040af72d8723137aa4fe379f)
lol can i be: kislev
No. Also, they use generic german-esque Empire graphics and have no special units that would distinguish them from being another principality of the Empire.
You may be given the opportunity to buy them in a DLC at some point down the road, maybe.
Everywhere I look says something similar
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/03/23/total-war-warhammer-preview/
QuoteUndead units don't have morale, presumably because they're the unconscious puppets of the necromancer who raised them, so they'll never flee. But they will crumble. It's the perfect verb to describe their performance, crumbling. They're like biscuits assaulted by too-hot tea, their rotten flesh resolving into clots and crumbs.
So. .....razing enemy settlements..... you mean burn them and go home, returning the settlement to enemy hands?
Realistic I guess. But potentially annoying.
Quote from: Tyr on March 24, 2016, 01:54:04 PM
So. .....razing enemy settlements..... you mean burn them and go home, returning the settlement to enemy hands?
Realistic I guess. But potentially annoying.
If a human player takes an ork hold, I wonder if they can give it to their dwarf allies, or vice versa?
Orc with a C. K is the space fungus.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FzmhZsij.png&hash=216bd701181941ac5b0d4300f2b5eac1a8f1999a)
To put this issue to bed; Undead do indeed have the fatigue and morale everyone else does. They experience these shocks normally- There is no special mechanic for mass crumbling when the Lord dies, for example, just the normal severe morale hit that is inflicted when a general dies applies to the undead as well. And undead leadership is mostly very poor. The only difference (As I noted previously) is how undead react to having their morale flatline: Instead of routing or shattering, they burst into treats. Constant HP loss that does not otherwise impair their ability to function but soon destroys the unit.
In the above picture you can see the zombies have been running a bit and need to catch their breath, but they are tucked in nicely between two other units so they feel safe and comfy, keeping them at Eager. These are enthusiastic and intrepid zombies with can-do spirit.
It's a pretty miserable design decision. I was expecting the most from Vampire Counts among the five initial factions, but for the immediate future i'll pin my hopes on Bretonnia. Bretonnia is basically M:TW 3, so needlessly conservative and unimaginative design decisions won't hurt them as they have the Undead.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2016, 09:36:59 AM
Bretonians vs. Orks
Looks absolutely beautiful.
https://youtu.be/p_AD4gHVrWU
Err, it looks absolutely shitty. :huh:
Man I want to play the Empire in a Warhammer Total War game so bad. This better not be shit.
Quote from: Tyr on March 24, 2016, 01:54:04 PM
So. .....razing enemy settlements..... you mean burn them and go home, returning the settlement to enemy hands?
Realistic I guess. But potentially annoying.
I never do that to enemy settlements. A proper Razing is a series of irrational arguments interspersed with jokes.
^_^
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Siege_Q_and_A
Quote...
What's with Undead getting tired?
That's placeholder, Undead don't get tired, instead they are animated by the strength of their lords' magical control over them, and this can be affected by their activities in battle. The bond between a unit and their lord can be weakened in a similar fashion to 'tiredness' but the terminology used in the final game will make this clearer.
Are there different speeds of crumbling?
In the game there's two states of 'Crumbling'. The first is similar to when a non-undead unit is starting to break or 'shaken', an undead unit will crumble slowly at this point as the magic that binds them weakens under assault. Then, when a non-undead unit would be shattered, the undead unit crumbles at a much faster rate.
In the final game we're going to make sure that the two crumbling states are easy to understand, and we are still balancing the effect and speeds involved.
THe undead don't get tired, why that would be silly!
Instead they will get "Less Animated" which acts in every exactly the same as "Tired" but we replaced the label, so no worries!
Besides the foolishness about being tired, from the several battles we've seen the undead play extremely conventionally, with the same hammer-and-anvil tactics that have ruled the game since Shogun 1. When skeleton warriors clash with empire halberdiers, there isn't much appreciable difference.
The main problem I see is that they've downplayed raising dead- it's harder to do and less rewarding than in tabletop, and having several casters does nothing to increase the cap on fresh undead you can raise, while restoring the numbers of existing undead is also more difficult than i'd like it to be. Vampire Counts should be a very top-heavy race that leans on its casters heavily, and should be in little danger of running low on troops as long as they have magical supremacy.
Regeneration and raising the dead are almost irrelevant side-abilities in the current build though, so Vampire Counts big iconoclastic tactical difference is that the don't have archers.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 02, 2016, 08:36:04 PM
so Vampire Counts big iconoclastic tactical difference is that the don't have archers.
What? Boooooo!
At least they CAN raise dead so maybe modders can once again bail out Creative Assembly.
Quote from: Valmy on April 02, 2016, 09:05:22 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 02, 2016, 08:36:04 PM
so Vampire Counts big iconoclastic tactical difference is that the don't have archers.
What? Boooooo!
At least they CAN raise dead so maybe modders can once again bail out Creative Assembly.
Raising the dead is very easy. Lettow is very biased and completely exaggerates.
https://youtu.be/2a9nF8X2Yd4?t=215
Also, here's a VC assault on Altdorf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SFM6-LC6io
I hadn't looked for attacks from Languish's intrepid reporter. While your own bent toward hype with regards to upcoming games is well known, what stake would I have in this game not being excellent? I believe I have followed it closest of anyone on Languish, and hope for the best.
Sleepy skellies or Knightless battles against Bretonnia are not the best.
But to clear up accusations of exaggerating, let's look at the facts of Raising the Dead as shown in game.
Raising a fresh unit creates a unit of Zombies, or, if boosted, a unit of skeletons. There must be army slots available to cast, meaning you cannot do so if you have a full stack of a Lord and 19 other units. Additionally, the spell has a hard cap of twice per battle, regardless of how many spellcasters you have brought.
But that isn't the whole story. There is also the Invocation of Nehek, which heals an existing unit. In tabletop it would immediately add multiple new models, potentially beyond the starting amount. Instead of providing new men to a unit outright, in-game it restores hp to existing units first, and is slow enough that a unit engaged in melee will take about as much damage as it heals, or more. Unable to heal very rapidly, what it won't do is appreciably regrow your number of skellies.
Unlike Raise Dead, it has no hard cap on casting, but does have a cool down. It is neither spammable nor decisive, having more in combat with the combat buff spells Empire and Orcs also have.
This stands in contrast to contrast to the tabletop experience, where VC could restore ranks to several units a turn, and any combat that didn't end swiftly would go to the Vampires as they replenished their losses indefinitely.
Have you ever played the tabletop game, Tim？
Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2016, 06:43:59 PM
THe undead don't get tired, why that would be silly!
Instead they will get "Less Animated" which acts in every exactly the same as "Tired" but we replaced the label, so no worries!
Yeah, sounds just like a renaming.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 03, 2016, 01:42:31 AM
This stands in contrast to contrast to the tabletop experience, where VC could restore ranks to several units a turn, and any combat that didn't end swiftly would go to the Vampires as they replenished their losses indefinitely.
Have you ever played the tabletop game, Tim？
How many people on Lnaguish, a rather nerdy subset of the population, have ever played tabletop? Not that many, are all of us who haven't played tabletop not entitled to an opinion?
Of course you're entitled to your opinion! I just wondered what perspective you were approaching it from, beyond the general Tim-is-hyped-to-be-hyped angle.
Total Warhammer is trying to wear two hats as once as a fairly faithful representation of the tabletop world and a Total War game. They are doing a pretty good job, with 0 innovations or new units unsupported by the lore, but I'd say they've leaned more in favor of the "Total War" than "Warhammer Fantasy" end of the spectrum. That's not a bad thing at all, but a side-effect has been some very unoriginal and conservative choices.
Chaos, Dwarves, Orcs and the Empire don't represent that much of a departure from Total War as we've known it- Yes, there are monstrous infantry and spells, but the General's abilities have gotten increasingly "spell-like" from Shogun 2 onwards, and the game already had Elephants. Flying units and spells (that they've been very moderate in the application of, repeatedly stressing they won't be overpowered) are a big change, but it supplements the hammer & anvil that is the meat of the game rather than replacing it.
Vampire Counts, an untiring, unfeeling army of the dead, represent a major departure from the Total War's tested formula that the other factions don't. Units outside the General's "leadership bubble" (A concept fortuitously present in either warhammer or total war) cannot march, and so shamble across the board slowly. To add to this, they lose combat to virtually everyone- even Bretonnian peasants will put in a respectable performance against zombies and skeletons. But if they aren't slain outright, they are almost assured to come back from the dead. The battle is won by killing the summoners, or somehow overcoming his dark mastery in the magic phase. It's thematic and makes sense- A stake through Dracula and all his horrors of the night dissipate.
But Vampire Counts were too many changes at once. Asked to accept an army that was able to make good almost all of its casualties, ignoring fatigue and morale and dependent mostly on Magic, a new feature they are trying to keep toned down, CA decided that was a lot of risks to take and went with what we have- Undead units that can run(!) with or without proximity to their Lord, but feel the effects of morale and fatigue. It has recently been renamed, but the effects and mechanics are the same- The same things that will make a man of Stirland reassured, afraid or tired will work the same results upon the dead man of Sylvania. The ability to raise dead and restore lost ranks is greatly downplayed, as I have explained at length earlier, but more than anything else it's that nothing changes.
I still won't want to fight up a hill, because its dispiriting and tiring for my skeletons, and the enemy charging downhill will enjoy a bonus to momentum that will inflict casualties I can't afford to place.
I will still win my battles by holding their line in place with infantry and attacking from the sides with cavalry, which has been the go-to strategy of Total War for as long as it's been a series.
It's disappointing for a faction that I was looking forward to the most of the initial five, as they promised to shake up a lot and be free of the conventions of the game.
If you watch the video on the assault on Altdorf, the Vampire Counts were on the verge of a desicive victory when Kemmler got slain and the whole army crumbled. Seems like taking out the VC Lords are vital to success.
I've watched it a few times now. Their victory would not have been "Decisive"- they were in a very bloodied state at the town square near the end, with few units left alive fighting a slightly superior opposition. They may have been able to eke out a win if Kemmler had killed Balthasar, because both sides were tired and depleted.
The undead have generally low morale across the board, so a dead general certainly hurts them. I believe most armies would have mass-routed on losing their general in that situation, though.
Since we're looking at videos, you can see in the Siege of Templehof the opposing undead player loses his general, but the units that the AI has kept in reserve in the town square (while risking their general in melee) do not take any damage whatsoever. They remain eager (this was before the name change, you see), because they are well-rested and enjoy the morale bonus that comes from being in the Town Square. Their espirit de corpse was sufficiently high that they weathered the morale shock without doing any crumbling whatsoever.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 04, 2016, 12:35:07 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 03, 2016, 01:42:31 AM
This stands in contrast to contrast to the tabletop experience, where VC could restore ranks to several units a turn, and any combat that didn't end swiftly would go to the Vampires as they replenished their losses indefinitely.
Have you ever played the tabletop game, Tim？
How many people on Lnaguish, a rather nerdy subset of the population, have ever played tabletop? Not that many, are all of us who haven't played tabletop not entitled to an opinion?
Yeah. I used to be really big on Warhammer but can still count on my hands the amount of times I've actually played. And that's in the UK where it is far more popular.
Chaos vs Empire battle posted, our first real look at Chaos.
They look great, and the battle looked fun to watch as well- I think they've gotten the magic to a better level than the earliest builds we saw.
I get the feeling they won't put the level of attention into Marks of Chaos that fans of specific chaos Gods might prefer, but I'm not very invested in that sort of thing myself. I wouldn't even want to play as Chaos- but as an opponent, they look very well done. I especially liked the Chaos Knights and the care that went into the Hellcannon- it has Chaos Dwarf crew that look different to the official CA model, with a semi-mesopotamian look to go with the official Chaos Dwarf lore. Makes me more confident they may make it into one of the game's two expansions.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-MYlmb3gip8
Fuckers nearly killed Karl Franz :mad:
So I looked a bit at the Empire campaign and I start with just Altdorf and have to conquer the rest of Reikland from separatists :wacko:
The I have to subdue each of the other Elector Counts? What the hell happened? Karl Franz isn't that bad at ruling his Empire :lol:
Man most of the game will just be gaining control of my own territory.
Quote from: Valmy on April 07, 2016, 09:52:51 AM
Fuckers nearly killed Karl Franz :mad:
So I looked a bit at the Empire campaign and I start with just Altdorf and have to conquer the rest of Reikland from separatists :wacko:
The I have to subdue each of the other Elector Counts? What the hell happened? Karl Franz isn't that bad at ruling his Empire :lol:
Man most of the game will just be gaining control of my own territory.
I assume this is right after he inherits Reikland. If his father was a terrible emperor, than the Counts being rebellious makes sense.
Did they push this back?
This goblin shaman is hilarious! :lmfao:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6IUbraF9Oo
I thought our reporter would've picked up the story by now, but recent news has all been excellent.
Regional Occupation (that prevent any faction from ruling about half the map, based on what type of land it is- mountain holds or cities) and different faction leaders sharing the same starting point were both points of conventions on the forums. An official mod is now expected at release to deal with both if desired. (This, along with the news that there will -be- mods, although they cannot impose upon the Games Workshop IP)
The other big bugbear for many was the Chaos DLC pre-order incentive, which has been extended to include anyone who purchases it in the first week. As a result of these changes, pretty much everyone in the relevant communities are excited for the game, where there were a lot of fence-leaners before.
Also there was a post that looked at the timeline for DLC releases, and it was revealed there will be special campaigns (like Rome 2's "Caesar in Gaul", which will also introduce new races, besides plain old race packs. I think it is very likely the first campaign pack will be centered on Athel Loren as a submap and include the Wood Elves, and I am excited by the prospect.
A very minor fly in the ointment is it looks like each faction has the same adviser, where I was hoping for a goblin to keep commentary for the greenskins.
QuoteA very minor fly in the ointment is it looks like each faction has the same adviser, where I was hoping for a goblin to keep commentary for the greenskins.
:(
Yeah. The first Dawn of War game brought the 40k universe to life in over-the-top acting glory- even today I can remember dozens of lines from a throwaway RTS. I'd honestly say it made the game twice as fun for me.
Having your own faction giving color to everything doesnt seem that hard at all and i'm surprised they chose to cut corners there. The advisor they selected was well-chosen since he can plausibly stand in for Empire, Vampires, or even Chaos, but he's a terrible fit for dwarfs or greenskins. I hope they add more with future expansions and DLC.
Quote from: Lettow77 on May 08, 2016, 10:08:14 AM
I thought our reporter would've picked up the story by now, but recent news has all been excellent.
Regional Occupation (that prevent any faction from ruling about half the map, based on what type of land it is- mountain holds or cities) and different faction leaders sharing the same starting point were both points of conventions on the forums. An official mod is now expected at release to deal with both if desired. (This, along with the news that there will -be- mods, although they cannot impose upon the Games Workshop IP)
The other big bugbear for many was the Chaos DLC pre-order incentive, which has been extended to include anyone who purchases it in the first week. As a result of these changes, pretty much everyone in the relevant communities are excited for the game, where there were a lot of fence-leaners before.
I like regional occupancy and don't plan on playing chaos, so I didn't care about those changes.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 09, 2016, 09:14:44 AM
I like regional occupancy and don't plan on playing chaos, so I didn't care about those changes.
I don't plan on playing Chaos either, destroying my beloved Empire is something too horrible to contemplate. But not charging for Day 1 DLC is a good sign.
Valmy, you should know that Bretonnia is the ideologically sound human faction. The nobles castles are built upon elven ruins; millenia later the leavings of their betters exceed anything Man can build. The men of Bretonnia live in this shadow, and in fact in the thrall of an Elven diety; in her service they enforce an atavistic social structure that has innoculated them against the evils of societal or technological change. The inbred and gaunt peasants are denied all but a tenths-share of their produce, and yet the noble class scarce governs; It is chasing after glory and expending itself upon great quests for the favor of a mysterious Lady of the Lake.
Set against this, the Holy Roman Empire reeks of sausage and modernity. Its rulers are themselves ruled by avarice and the selfish pursuit of power and knowledge, be it technological or magical.
Bretonnia is a little too bland for my tastes. Just knights and lots of them. I will certainly give them a shot though.
I am going to AAR my first spin with Total War: Warhammer so you can all laugh at how much I suck having not played a Total War game since the first Rome.
I'd like to see it. Will you be starting with the Empire?
Since game is only coming out on PC to start I guess I'll be waiting till Aug at earliest to pick this up.
Quote from: Lettow77 on May 15, 2016, 02:27:08 AM
I'd like to see it. Will you be starting with the Empire?
Yep.
Settling in to my first battle I confirm what I'd suspected- the morale for undead is a complete port of other races. The arcane magicks by which skeletons are kept bound to their master would appear to be easier to maintain at the crest of a hill rather than the base of it. :hmm:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhAw5BMX.jpg&hash=ff78ce972393aef9d1471c78ef5969975ae70e4c)
The mystical rituals are more powerful in the high places in full site of the gods you see.
Yeah undead like their barrows and mounds.
Very Hard is punishing. I overextended out of Sylvania and was immediately faced with bankruptcy, rebellion, attrition in untainted lands, and an elector count-dwarf coalition. I won't restart, but I'm set to lose both my stacks in the next turn, and if I can survive a defensive campaign depends on the enemy's dedication more than any force I can field.
As expected, the undead healing spell Invocation of Nehek is so weak as to practically be a placebo. It can be useful for healing low hp high damage units not in combat, such as dire wolves, but as something you cast on skeletons engaged against even the most feeble opposition it is almost unnoticeable.
You guys will forgive me if I wait till they put out all of the DLC factions.
Probably a good call if you want value for money, but it could be a very long time. They are planning to make two separate stand-alone expansions and aren't looking to have it done sooner than 2020.
(Doesn't it sound really far away if you express it as "2020?")
Yeah, it does. Four factions seem kind of paltry for a Total war game.
Well you're right. The factions are more distinct than they've ever been though, and there's in practice five, since Chaos is out and is free for the first week of purchases.
Five is still a bit scarce, though. The continent they are portraying doesn't feel right due to some absences. The Empire's woods are supposed to lurk with Beastmen, so that the Empire is under siege within as well as from without. And Athel Loren is egregiously vacant.
It's understandable Skaven aren't in yet- that's clearly a flagship race for the next expansion, and as dwellers of an under-empire whose existence is denied it makes some sense they aren't there. The game makes allusion to them as well.
But the game needs Beastmen and Wood Elves. The forests of the old world were the part I always liked the most, and they are empty.
So it's like every other games workshop game these days. Dlc city
I don't really care. So many of the Warhammer Factions are just stupidly over the top. The factions I actually want to play are mostly already there. The Brettonians would be nice at some point.
Hate the Dark Elf and the other new world factions so glad to be free of them for a bit.
At least here the factions are really different in how they play. In Rome the factions played basically the same way.
Quote from: Valmy on May 26, 2016, 01:06:34 PM
I don't really care. So many of the Warhammer Factions are just stupidly over the top. The factions I actually want to play are mostly already there. The Brettonians would be nice at some point.
Hate the Dark Elf and the other new world factions so glad to be free of them for a bit.
At least here the factions are really different in how they play. In Rome the factions played basically the same way.
What game has lizardmen that you need to be "free of them"?
Quote from: chipwich on May 26, 2016, 06:14:48 PM
What game has lizardmen that you need to be "free of them"?
Fantasy Warhammer? :hmm:
Anyway I meant "free of them" in the sense that fairly soon they will be in the game with all their corniness.
The opening video stuttered like a motherfucker, but the game plays fine on low graphics. :)
Quote from: Tyr on May 26, 2016, 12:22:29 PM
So it's like every other games workshop game these days. Dlc city
I think at this point it's safe to say DLC is here to stay, and I don't think that's a bad thing. compared to the expansion pack model, dlc is more prone to abuse, but companies can do a lot more with it and people can simply not buy the worthless DLC.
It occurs to me that it would be fun to play an "Age of Sigmar" campaign where you control all of the forces of Order and try to hold back the tide.
The Beastmen somehow managed to not only secure the slot as first DLC race, but also get their own custom mini-campaign. The beastmen. This will bring the total races up to six, with four of them being "evil" races and two of them being Chaos. I can only assume the warherd has a (beast)man on the inside, else I can't see what brought CA to this decision.
Sounds fun.
I've waiting on winter when I can get a new PC. What I have now isn't quite enough.
I haven't been as diligent as our forum reporter in updating on every DLC Warhammer has received, but since Beastmen there have been significant upgrades- New legendary lords and "regiments of renown" for the four main factions, a new goblin subfaction, and a faction of dwarf exiles trying to retake Karak Eight Peaks.
More to the point, though, Wood Elves have finally hit the steam store. With the updates, the factions presently in the game (except Beastmen) are missing almost none of their units, and the Wood Elves are shipping with no missing units at all- the only thing they won't have is a few hero options from the book.
With Bretonnia set out for a free release on February, the game will be near to twice as fleshed out as it was on release.
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 18, 2016, 09:07:37 PM
I haven't been as diligent as our forum reporter in updating on every DLC Warhammer has received, but since Beastmen there have been significant upgrades- New legendary lords and "regiments of renown" for the four main factions, a new goblin subfaction, and a faction of dwarf exiles trying to retake Karak Eight Peaks.
More to the point, though, Wood Elves have finally hit the steam store. With the updates, the factions presently in the game (except Beastmen) are missing almost none of their units, and the Wood Elves are shipping with no missing units at all- the only thing they won't have is a few hero options from the book.
With Bretonnia set out for a free release on February, the game will be near to twice as fleshed out as it was on release.
Fantastic news!
Got a question for you guys. What other factions are they intending to include. High Elves? Ogres? Araby? Lizard Men? Skaven? Chaos Dwarves? Albion? Tomb Kings?
They said their intent is to include all sixteen major factions with book support. I wouldn't count on Albion or Araby, although it seems like they'll have to do something for Araby when they expand the map.
They are going to sell two separate standalone expansions besides this one. They confirmed that it would ship with four races. I assume it will expand the map westward, and that the races would be High Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, and Lizardmen. Wood Elves and Bretonnia might be the last additions to the present game, since in February they are selling the "Old World Edition", that sort of implies that's all the work the Old World will be getting for awhile.
What are all 16 factions?
Currently released/ Announced release date:
Empire, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen, Wood Elves, Bretonnia
Unreleased and no announced release date: High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Daemons
A wild card is that, according to some Russian datamining, it seems the final expansion is supposed to be centered on the Realm of Chaos, and make separate factions out of the four Chaos Gods.
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 25, 2016, 04:57:53 AM
Currently released/ Announced release date:
Empire, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen, Wood Elves, Bretonnia
Unreleased and no announced release date: High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Daemons
A wild card is that, according to some Russian datamining, it seems the final expansion is supposed to be centered on the Realm of Chaos, and make separate factions out of the four Chaos Gods.
Ah. Okay. I would have liked to see some of the other Human cultures. The Russian-Poles, the dark age Brits, and the Arabs. Also, I thought Tilea and Estalia would have been a bit bigger with unique units. I'll still probably get the game when more of the factions come out.
The DLC is apparently selling beyond their expectations, and human factions are low hanging fruit, so they still might get around to them, especially since it'd be like printing money. (Well..except for the dark age brits. Albion is really undersized in the map they went with, and I can't imagine them ever making anything for it unless it's the year 2020 and they are looking to scrape the barrel one last time)
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 25, 2016, 11:00:58 AM
The DLC is apparently selling beyond their expectations, and human factions are low hanging fruit, so they still might get around to them, especially since it'd be like printing money. (Well..except for the dark age brits. Albion is really undersized in the map they went with, and I can't imagine them ever making anything for it unless it's the year 2020 and they are looking to scrape the barrel one last time)
How hard is it to expand the map a bit?
Could do an all in one minor faction dlc. Bear cavalry and ice witches for Kislev, pike blocks and mercanaries for Tilea, etc.
Assuming they enlarged the island of Albion, what do you propose they do with it? It's an island of primitive psuedocelts that chuck spears and lack access to functional armor. Besides the fact that they don't have official units, their roster would by definition be pretty limited, inferior and uninteresting unless they fudged the internal logic of warhammer very badly with their stats.
Selling all in one minor faction DLC is a heinous waste of sales opportunities. Estalia and Tilea together, sure, but they could sell Kislev separately at the same price and still make a killing.
Actual kingdoms in the Old World notwithstanding, Albion is just a no-go. Devs already said that Wood Elves are the last expansion "this big" that they'll do until the next game, so it hardly seems likely they'll add a map-extending expansion before they move on the New World. They've still got a passel of large, interesting factions with tabletop fans and official support to sell, and beyond that there's the obscure factions that help populate the New World, like the Amazons or the Vampire Coast.
When does it go on sale?
There were a slew of promotional 20% offs recently. I doubt it will get any further discounted than that. I have one of the 20% off coupons, if you'd be interested.
Quote from: Lettow77 on November 26, 2016, 11:34:50 PM
Assuming they enlarged the island of Albion, what do you propose they do with it? It's an island of primitive psuedocelts that chuck spears and lack access to functional armor. Besides the fact that they don't have official units, their roster would by definition be pretty limited, inferior and uninteresting unless they fudged the internal logic of warhammer very badly with their stats.
Selling all in one minor faction DLC is a heinous waste of sales opportunities. Estalia and Tilea together, sure, but they could sell Kislev separately at the same price and still make a killing.
Actual kingdoms in the Old World notwithstanding, Albion is just a no-go. Devs already said that Wood Elves are the last expansion "this big" that they'll do until the next game, so it hardly seems likely they'll add a map-extending expansion before they move on the New World. They've still got a passel of large, interesting factions with tabletop fans and official support to sell, and beyond that there's the obscure factions that help populate the New World, like the Amazons or the Vampire Coast.
I wasn't really thinking of Albion when I said that. Estalia and Tilea are way undersized.
Bought this and played it for a few hours. So far it is hilariously fun. I don't have any solid knowledge of the Warhammer universe so it's also interesting learning about that.
I was skeptical of this move to fantasy at first but, honestly, it seems like Total War is a much better fit for fantasy settings than historical. Looking back, the historical Total Wars just seem... boring compared to this.
As a head's up, Total War: Warhammer is now part of the Humble Monthly bundle, which means you can nab it for $12. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger at that price. You also get 10% off in the Humble Store which has all of the DLC for sale. So... anyone that owns the game, is the DLC worth it?
https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 07, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
As a head's up, Total War: Warhammer is now part of the Humble Monthly bundle, which means you can nab it for $12. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger at that price. You laos get 10% off in the Humble Store which has all of the DLC for sale. So... anyone that owns the game, is the DLC worth it?
https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/
Yeah, Beastmen and Wood Elves are a great addition.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 08, 2017, 01:31:07 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 07, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
As a head's up, Total War: Warhammer is now part of the Humble Monthly bundle, which means you can nab it for $12. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger at that price. You laos get 10% off in the Humble Store which has all of the DLC for sale. So... anyone that owns the game, is the DLC worth it?
https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/
Yeah, Beastmen and Wood Elves are a great addition.
Are they worth getting right off the bat or are they more about added features after the intro campaign?
Done and Done.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 08, 2017, 02:48:24 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 08, 2017, 01:31:07 AM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 07, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
As a head's up, Total War: Warhammer is now part of the Humble Monthly bundle, which means you can nab it for $12. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger at that price. You laos get 10% off in the Humble Store which has all of the DLC for sale. So... anyone that owns the game, is the DLC worth it?
https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/
Yeah, Beastmen and Wood Elves are a great addition.
Are they worth getting right off the bat or are they more about added features after the intro campaign?
If they're on sale, I'd grab them now. Their armies really have different playstyles that adds great variety.
I was censured, so I couldn't warn against tim's excitement.
beastmen probably isn't worth more than $5-7, unless your threshold for "is it worth it?" is pretty low or you really love the faction. it's basically the chaos faction--just a roaming army.
welfs is probably worth the price.
I wouldn't buy either until you've exhausted the starting factions. you might not play the game long enough to justify spending any extra money than the base cost.
I'll agree with LaCroix. Play the base game first and see if you like it. The base game, by itself, is already really really good, anyway, so you're not really missing out on any key features or anything. I think the new factions even show up in the main campaign mode; they're just not playable by you unless you own the welf or beastmen packs.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 07, 2017, 04:55:24 PM
As a head's up, Total War: Warhammer is now part of the Humble Monthly bundle, which means you can nab it for $12. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger at that price. You also get 10% off in the Humble Store which has all of the DLC for sale. So... anyone that owns the game, is the DLC worth it?
https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/
Good call. Got the main game, but will hold off on the DLC for now. Looks like there's a lot of them available aside from the two factions. :hmm:
Game runs awfully slow, ordered some RAM. I think that's were the bottleneck is. Still, this PC is getting long in the tooth.
SSD is highly recommended for total war games nowadays. Loading times are way faster
Dammit. Knew I should have bought xcom 2 last month.
Might be tempted on this anyway.
Yeah this game is pretty fun.
I got a little burned out after 50 straight battles with the Vampire Counts. Stupid 'I can create a full army again seconds after losing the last one' shit.
-33% now, time has come :)
Vampire Counts are weird.
They should be a glass army. Very tough, but knock out the necromancer/vampire and they crumble.
In one battle I managed to get my general behind the fighting to smash the vampire to pieces, excellent I thought, victory...but no. They fought on.
In a later battle I also managed to kill the vampire but the same happened, they continued...for a while. Then all at once they crumbled.
Wonder how long you have to wait between the death of the vampire and the army crumbling
There is no special mechanic to trigger army crumbling on the death of their vampire. They have a leadership stat just like living troops, and take the same leadership penalty to suddenly losing their general. Once the bar swings too far against your force they can mass-crumble, just like a mass route. Since the leadership of lesser undead units is pretty low they can suffer badly to losing their lord, but you can keep their morale up with very undead things like having flanks secure, not being tired, or having the high ground.
Addition of more RAM didn't make much difference. I need a new rig.
Warhammer 2 announced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXxe897bW-A
Apparently, it will link together with the first game if you have it, so you'll be able to play all the old races in the New World (and new races in the Old World).
Initial four races will be High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, and Skaven. There is decent evidence to suggest Tomb Kings will be the first DLC or a preorder bonus faction.
The internet is alive with controversy that Slann have been incorrectly depicted as having navels.
How is high a race?
Race is, as you know, purely a social construct. High Elves are Elves that identify as #Ulthuanborn and feel that Malekith is #NotMyPhoenixKing
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 02, 2017, 06:11:46 AM
Race is, as you know, purely a social construct. High Elves are Elves that identify as #Ulthuanborn and feel that Malekith is #NotMyPhoenixKing
:lol:
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 02, 2017, 04:23:31 AM
Initial four races will be High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, and Skaven. There is decent evidence to suggest Tomb Kings will be the first DLC or a preorder bonus faction.
The internet is alive with controversy that Slann have been incorrectly depicted as having navels.
So a Warhammer-Americas setting?
You know, this game is a blast. I bought a SSD during the Black Friday and finally got to play this game. The over-the-top Hollywood battles of Total War fit really well with the Mawkish Melodrama of Warhammer. It makes sense, if you are going to have unrealistic but dramatic battles why not throw orcs and tree people in there? I like how each faction has a definite "feel". Dwarves have very heavily armed infantry but almost no mobility. Wood Elves are the opposite with lots of
magical cavalry but have a hard time holding a line of infantry. And humans have the ability to throw down their weapons and run away when facing horrors beyond time and space.
Finally started getting into this. Doing okay on the battlefield, but my economy is a wreck.
Up to turn 24 in my Empire Game.
I have destroyed the Reikland sepratitsts and the Crooked Moon goblins.
I have confederated with Talabecland and catpured Marienburg, which has solved my financial problems.
Next on the list, capture Grossel to consolidate my control over the Wasteland.
Then go Beastmen hunting. They are causing Weissenland problems, despite them having annexed Stirling.
Up to Turn 29 now.
I fully conquered the Wasteland Grand Province of Imperial Westerland, adding it to Reikland and Talabecland.
Then Weissenland (which had split Stirland with Sylvannia) confederated with me. I think they did it because they lost one of their two armies to the Beastmen, but it was a phyric victory. The Beastmen have led me on a wild goose chase since then, always staying just out of reach.
A lot of folks came begging for nonagression packs and trade agreements with me and now I'm clearing 500 gold a turn.
I think the Dwarfs razed a city in Sylvania, so I don't think the Vampires are doing so hot.
Will take care of them next assuming the Ulirc dominated provinces don't attack me. A couple of them canceled the NA treaties after I confederated Weissenland.
Got a message at turn 28 that the tribes in Norsca/the Waste had stopped striving against each other and were uniting.
Heard they don't come down until turn 80-100, so if that's true I should be ready by then.
Lizardmen have the some of the best infantry in the game. They are extremely hard-hitting (they have weapon strength better then most races entire roster), considerable armor, and are unlocked very early in the game. I have little ratmen who are cowardly, weak and underarmored ( They have weapon strength and armor that is half of their saurus opponents. Their leader, Krok-gar (or something like that), bestows such a great morale bonus the Lizardmen don't break and run until they reach 10% of the their numbers. They do go berserk, but that doesn't really help me much. I had to outnumber the Lizardmen 2-1 to win a battle and it was only a Pyrrhic victory. Also the Lizard men have dinosaurs, which isn't really fair.
A new DLC is coming along. Add some units for the Skaven and Lizardmen. Are there Lizard women? How would you tell the difference? I beat the vortex campaign with the Skaven and started a Mortal Empires game as the Empire. The Vortex campaign was a bit tedious. I kept having to return to my original cities to protect them while they did their ritual thing. As a result I didn't get to expand much and Only fought one legendary lord and never fought any Dark Elves. Mortal Empires is much better in that regard.
I notice 2 is on sale.
I'm tempted.
Though still can't but think that 2 and 1 are artificially different games.
Quote from: Tyr on April 05, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
I notice 2 is on sale.
I'm tempted.
Though still can't but think that 2 and 1 are artificially different games.
Isn't the main draw to combine them into a huge mega-campaign?
I think they are both very well made games. My main issue with both however (but 2 in particular), is that I can't seem to avoid having each and every battle devolve into a massive round blob of units brawling.
L2General noob!
Quote from: Tamas on April 07, 2019, 09:06:02 AM
I think they are both very well made games. My main issue with both however (but 2 in particular), is that I can't seem to avoid having each and every battle devolve into a massive round blob of units brawling.
That's every Total War game really.
The campaign devolves into nothing but a dull forward march where your army slowly makes its way across the map fighting a battle every 2 or 3 turns.
The battles after an initial period of throwing projectiles at each other are rugby matches.
Which...may well be realistic.
But isn't fun.
Quote from: Tamas on April 07, 2019, 09:06:02 AM
I think they are both very well made games. My main issue with both however (but 2 in particular), is that I can't seem to avoid having each and every battle devolve into a massive round blob of units brawling.
Getting the AI to blob up is a good tactic: You blast'em with spells. I really don't have a problem with my guys blobbing up, just don't order more than one unit to attack an enemy unit from the same side. Sometimes you have to do so order more than one unit to attack another unit (for instance when a monster attacks your anti-infantry troops and you need to throw some anti-large troops to bail them out), but as a rule use the flanks.
Bought #1 before Christmas. Just before they announced they were giving it for free if you bought another game... grrr.
So, I played, I liked it, and I bought #2 and most of the DLC while they were on special, -66%.
Haven't played #2 yet, I've played Empire & Dwarves based game, and now, I'm on Empire with the Radious mod. Lots of units, lots of changes, I like it! :)
Like I've said before: fantasy really suits the lack of realism of the Total War format. :)
Quote from: viper37 on January 31, 2020, 06:09:16 PM
Bought #1 before Christmas. Just before they announced they were giving it for free if you bought another game... grrr.
So, I played, I liked it, and I bought #2 and most of the DLC while they were on special, -66%.
Haven't played #2 yet, I've played Empire & Dwarves based game, and now, I'm on Empire with the Radious mod. Lots of units, lots of changes, I like it! :)
Lot of cool Dwarf action in the second game. The Skaven make a cool and unique enemy
Announcement trailer for the third game just dropped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr7yUlM0Po
Kislev and Daemons of Chaos. :wub:
Edit: Apparently Grand Cathay will be in the game on launch, as well. It's generally thought to be certain that Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms will come later.
They can't release a new one, I only have 3.9 hours in TW:WH2 yet! :(
Quote from: Syt on February 03, 2021, 02:50:18 PM
They can't release a new one, I only have 3.9 hours in TW:WH2 yet! :(
Get to it then, you have most of this year!
Will it connect to the others?
Interesting to see a region rarely touched by warhammer.
Chaos dwarfs ho!
Quote from: Tyr on February 03, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
Will it connect to the others?
Interesting to see a region rarely touched by warhammer.
Chaos dwarfs ho!
Presumably the initial map will only include the races new to the game (which is why Cathay is in, otherwise it'd be just Kislev vs all of Chaos). Probably with placeholders for Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres who will come later. They said that they plan to do a grand combined map for owners of all three games (same as with Mortal Empires for TWW1 and 2), but that will be some time after launch, not right away.
Initially Skaven was going to be a DLC race to WH2 but they got bumped up to release. They're saying there's a race pack for early adopters of WH3 so maybe that's Chaos Dwarves or Orges. Otherwise at the start you're just going to have a huge blob in the Darklands between Kislev and Cathay that's going to be all generic Orcs (and maybe a few rando Skavens and Norsca).
Also having 4 base WH3 factions at release gives them way more room to add DLC lord pack pairings without having to do the complicated "DLC for DLC" route like they did for Wood Elves that makes the plebs butthurt.
I see that TW:WH3 is up for pre-purchase on Steam - Troy was an Epic exclusive, though, wasn't it? :unsure:
I wonder if they decided to not go exclusive anymore, or if, closer to release to decide to go exclusive again, and cancel Steam pre-orders.
Quote from: Syt on February 07, 2021, 11:46:22 AM
I see that TW:WH3 is up for pre-purchase on Steam - Troy was an Epic exclusive, though, wasn't it? :unsure:
I wonder if they decided to not go exclusive anymore, or if, closer to release to decide to go exclusive again, and cancel Steam pre-orders.
Troy was not just an exclusive but a free giveaway.
Quote from: Syt on February 07, 2021, 11:46:22 AM
I see that TW:WH3 is up for pre-purchase on Steam - Troy was an Epic exclusive, though, wasn't it? :unsure:
I wonder if they decided to not go exclusive anymore, or if, closer to release to decide to go exclusive again, and cancel Steam pre-orders.
Yes, CA posted in a FAQ somewhere that they had no plans to go Epic exclusive again.
I already preordered it. :ph34r: You can get it here for a 17% discount: https://2game.com/en/total-war-warhammer-iii and if you use the discount code GTG10 it becomes around 25% off.
Incidentally, I really like how CA is handling preorder policy for these games. You get the preorder bonus even if you buy the game up to a week after launch. So you can actually see the reviews before making a decision. This should be how preorder bonuses are handled everywhere (looking at you Paradox).
Quote from: Tyr on February 03, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
Will it connect to the others?
Interesting to see a region rarely touched by warhammer.
Chaos dwarfs ho!
They'll probably port in the basic units from Three Kingdoms and add some magic flourishes like armies of terracotta warriors and dragons.
KISLEV!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaLtE3cCEIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxe4C2kX_mU
(https://i.imgur.com/BXuzb1A.png)
(https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/2b/38e42c0s5uhk.png)
Those shields are thick, look really heavy. The Chaos dudes must be insanely strong.
Warhammer was never known for its realistic armaments.
I get it on table top, but they can fix those limitations in a computer game.
Proper warhammer fantasy had a pretty decent balance of realism to rule of cool.
Age of sigmar...Christ that's awful.
Quote from: Tyr on May 19, 2021, 07:06:18 AM
Proper warhammer fantasy had a pretty decent balance of realism to rule of cool.
Age of sigmar...Christ that's awful.
The Total War version is not the Age of Sigmar though, right?
The Total War version kinda mixes and matches from a bunch of tabletop versions. Some from WFB, some from WFRP, some newly invented just for this series (with GW's blessing). Upcoming Chaos god armies in TW3 may well borrow stuff from Age of Sigmar.
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2021, 07:35:27 AM
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.
I don't know if it's going to be enough to pull me back in. I'm finding that GW's aesthetic has continually evolved in a different direction than mine in the last decade. Oathmark is more my speed these days.
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2021, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2021, 07:35:27 AM
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.
I don't know if it's going to be enough to pull me back in. I'm finding that GW's aesthetic has continually evolved in a different direction than mine in the last decade. Oathmark is more my speed these days.
Especially since it's gonna be an extra dumbed down version. "We can't have French references in Bretonnia, silly!"
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2021, 07:35:27 AM
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.
I hadn't heard this.
Age of sigmar has fell flat and they realised killing one of their main game was dumb?
Yeah, I loved the fantasy setting. Age of Sigmar leaves me cold an uninterested.
Isn't 40k like 100 times more popular than the fantasy one, anyways?
Yeah, but that is also a great setting.
From what I gather the whole Age of Sigmar crap was so that they could copyright the race names, no more generic dwarves and elves, with copyrighted names more money could be made.
Behind the scenes I also guess, without any basis, that fantasy was losing them money and it was Age of Sigmar or give it up.
Quote from: Tyr on May 20, 2021, 01:56:15 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2021, 07:35:27 AM
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.
I hadn't heard this.
Age of sigmar has fell flat and they realised killing one of their main game was dumb?
Age of Sigmar is selling well, but the new CEO does think that killing WFB was dumb. Especially given the sales of Vermintide and Total Warhammer.
Also Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is in its fourth edition currently and seems to be doing well. And of course many people still play the second edition (we don't talk about the third).
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.
Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
This is what did it for me, huge Tolkien nerd, Shadow of the Horned Rat was the first game I bought for PC, bought Warhammer box with a friend, painted an elven army and then discovered 40k. Played Dark Omen to death and have been buying lots of GW digital stuff. I doubt much of that would have happened without elves in the Warhammer universe.
Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2021, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2021, 07:35:27 AM
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.
I don't know if it's going to be enough to pull me back in. I'm finding that GW's aesthetic has continually evolved in a different direction than mine in the last decade. Oathmark is more my speed these days.
I've never heard of this. Looks interesting.
Trouble is with all these warhammer competitors is GW just have too big a hold on things as the default fantasy miniature wargame. Cracking that to any sizable level outside of historic stuff has been tried many times and they often just wither away.
Quote from: Solmyr on May 20, 2021, 03:11:53 AM
Also Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is in its fourth edition currently and seems to be doing well. And of course many people still play the second edition (we don't talk about the third).
Yeah, I play 4th online. 2nd was great, didn't play 1st (that was before I got really into Warhammer), and 3rd was weird and I never touched it.
When you see Warhammer Fantasy Battle models renamed weird crap like Orruk and stuff it's like "look how they massacred my boy!".
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.
Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
Not a fan of the WH40k rebrandings, but I think Asur and Drucchi sound suitably Tolkienesque. Certainly sounds better than High Elves and Dark Elves.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2021, 06:03:18 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.
Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
Not a fan of the WH40k rebrandings, but I think Asur and Drucchi sound suitably Tolkienesque. Certainly sounds better than High Elves and Dark Elves.
We must agree to disagree there. High- and Dark Elves in the style of Warhammer inherits a lot from DnD. Tolkien only had one dark elf and evil elves are very very rare in his world.
Warhammer was a collection of fantasy tropes from a lot of sources in a world built by history nerds, wherever you came from there was something for you there.
Tolkien puritan? Check!
DnD nerd? Check!
Vampire nerd? Check!
History nerd? Check!
and so and so forth...
Much of that is lost with the aelves, duardin, orruks and whatever in a magical pretend world with no historical parallels. It's just uninteresting and bland.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2021, 06:03:18 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.
Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
Not a fan of the WH40k rebrandings, but I think Asur and Drucchi sound suitably Tolkienesque. Certainly sounds better than High Elves and Dark Elves.
They do sound tolkeinesque. But in a way that's only really obvious to the fan boys. Most people who have just watched the films, maybe read Lord of the rings once, won't see that
At least two names are taken directly from Tolkien with minor change in spelling.
Aenarion (dead elf king) is from Anarion (dead Gondor king)
Tyrion (elf prince) is from Tirion (some ancient city).
Names are hard to come up with, and GW often took names from pretty much everywhere. There are countries called "Araby" and "Cathay". There's a man-sized bipedal lizard who rides a pterodactyl name Tic-Tac-Toe. Etc.
I'm still amused by the use of German names and esp. the transformation of Schleswig-Holstein into Holswig-Schliestein.
It's one of the great things of warhammer, especially 40k,is when it was founded it was purposefully casual and silly. But over the years it has developed to become ever more serious... But with much of the silly stuff hanging on and hard to purge.
The history of games workshop does strike me as a potentially interesting book. Or a farsical mini series.
The Warhammer world and 40k settings are great. Everything cool has been thrown in there in a way that is easily recognizable (Tolkien, Moorcock, history, Judge Dredd comics, Dune etc...), but there's still subtlety to the world, especially 40k. For years I've had the impression that 40k is drifting towards an unsubtle good vs evil setting, and I think Rick Priestly made a similar comment a while back in Wargames Illustrated. This makes the (modern version of the) 40k setting less interesting to me.
Quote from: Tyr on May 20, 2021, 03:59:48 AM
've never heard of this. Looks interesting.
Trouble is with all these warhammer competitors is GW just have too big a hold on things as the default fantasy miniature wargame. Cracking that to any sizable level outside of historic stuff has been tried many times and they often just wither away.
Depends what problem you're solving for, I think.
I have a bunch of minis (some of them painted even). I buy minis I like and occassionally play games with rulesets I like. So stuff like Oathmark (or Warlords of Erewhon, Dragon Rampant, Saga etc) are cool as far as I'm concerned because the rulesets are interestings and sometimes they lead to miniatures I like too (either directly, or because 3rd parties manufacture to support them). So as far as I'm concerned, there's no trouble... it truly is a golden age for miniatures and tabletop rulesets right now.
I mean, one example: there's a growing scene for Minihammer (folks playing older versions of WFB scaled down to use 10 mm minis). I reckon it's pretty close that you can field any 8th edition army in 10 mm these days even without going to old Warmaster minis.
It's only trouble if you're looking to somehow replace GW's Warhammer with something else - but personally I don't care about that either way.
And yeah, Age of Sigmar looks like it's going strong - moving into 3rd edition soon by the looks of it.
As for Warhammer: Old World (IIRC that's the title for the "bring back the Old World and a rank & flank ruleset" development) I think there are two things driving it:
1) Total War and other videogames are showing there's still plenty of value in the Old World IP.
2) The continued growth of the non-GW minis and wargaming segment of the scene shows that by abandoning the Old World and rank & flank, GW left money on the table. This is their attempt to re-colonize that area of the hobby (historical-ish and/ or Tolkienesque fantasy).
We'll see how it goes. Personally I'm paying attention for nostalgia reasons, but realistically I doubt I'll go in. GW's churn speed is too fast for how I do the hobby. By the time I'm ready, my selected army is now underpowered due to Codex churn/ new rules/ new models which is just annoying. And aesthetically the last many years of GW minis are far to flanderized for my tastes.
Quote from: The Brain on May 20, 2021, 04:05:15 AM
When you see Warhammer Fantasy Battle models renamed weird crap like Orruk and stuff it's like "look how they massacred my boy!".
Indeed. I mean, I can mostly get by it... it's still the Imperial Guard in 40K as far as I'm concenred. And if I ever did buy an "Orruk" it'd still be an Ork to me.
75% off on steam atm.
They just released trailer for the last DLC to fix the most broken faction in the game: Beastmen.
The Brass Bull! :alberta:
From Reddit, really accurate. :D
(https://i.redd.it/kl0j45ltyym71.png)
:lol:
Goat Simulator is the one I'm not getting.
To a lesser extent Green Hell (though I google it and see what that game is) and Greed Fall
Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2021, 03:25:51 AM
:lol:
Goat Simulator is the one I'm not getting.
To a lesser extent Green Hell (though I google it and see what that game is) and Greed Fall
The Drakwald is a dark forest that is overrun with bestmen. It covers much of the northern Empire.
Dark Souls III is the vampire lords? I get that the castles/cathedral aesthetic works with vampires, but I think there's no vampires in Dark Souls. :P
The more goth-looking Bloodborne might be a better fit. :hmm:
Castlevania?
Oooh, good one. :)
Quote from: Solmyr on September 12, 2021, 03:37:44 AM
From Reddit, really accurate. :D
(https://i.redd.it/kl0j45ltyym71.png)
I don't get it :(
Holy shit! Amazing Cathay trailer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=033FWxL22A0
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 15, 2021, 03:43:27 AM
Holy shit! Amazing Cathay trailer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=033FWxL22A0
Yeah, its cool.
Considering how undeveloped this region is in the game it s curious where this is all coming from.
Quote from: Tyr on September 15, 2021, 04:21:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 15, 2021, 03:43:27 AM
Holy shit! Amazing Cathay trailer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=033FWxL22A0
Yeah, its cool.
Considering how undeveloped this region is in the game it s curious where this is all coming from.
Apparently it's being developed by GW and CA together.
We are expecting Cathay in the Warhammer Old World minis game (back to square bases) when it comes out in however many years.
An insane amount of new Cathay lore was just dropped in an enormous 2 hour interview of Warhammer 3's Lead Writer Andy Hall by some uber nerds
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/q5vd3j/full_interview_with_warhammer_3s_lead_writer_andy/
For those to lazy to watch a two hour video, here's a summary I stole from reddit.
Quote from: reddit user u/Bohemian_RomanticI'm aware that the recent interview Andy Hall did with Loremaster of Sotek/Greatbook of Grudges has already been posted, but for those who don't have time to watch an almost 2hr long video, or for my deaf mates, I decided to take notes while watching it.
Andy Hall, lead writer for Total War Warhammer 3, was reading from and referring to the unreleased Warhammer Fantasy Cathay Army Book, just dumping tons and tons of new lore. I've tried to categorise the new lore thematically, but the interview was pretty broad. Feel free to fill in any gaps for stuff I missed.
The Dragons:
The Moon Empress: She leads the agents of Cathay and commands the clandestine spy networks of the empire, "Mistress of the Ancestral Realms, Commander of the Imperial Agents, and Master of the Moon Winds." She and her agents have a big role in snuffing out clandestine cults. Mention of the "many eyed crow-men" of the Empress. Sound a bit like secret police, terrifying for people who see them.
- She often goes about the empire in disguise talking to common people. Honestly she sounds kinda spooky. The spymaster who could be anyone.
- She's named, Kuei Yin (Quei? I'm not great at Chinese spelling, apologies).
The Children: - There were 9(!!!) dragon children, but 4 have been "lost to time". Not confirmed dead, but no one knows what happened to them. Seems like that gives Games Workshop an open-ended way of introducing rogue dragon kids down the line. The remaining 5 children rule Cathay. They are:
Miao Ying - Black/Storm Dragon of the North
Zhao Ming - White/Iron Dragon of the West
(name not given) - Male Jade/Wood Dragon - ruler of the central provinces. Described as "reliable" but stodgy and obsessed with protocol. Keeps the other children in order. Sounds like a great candidate for a FLC who focuses on building tall.
Li Dao - Vermillion/Fire Dragon (master of the burning winds and lord of the phoenix) - Male Ruler of the South, described as bitter that Miao Ying gets all the attention for defending the north, when he has the challenging and thankless task of protecting the empire from Ind and Kuresh (also both Ind and Kuresh name drop strongly hints they're getting expanded down the line.) Also has a fiery temper, har har.
Yin Ying – Azure/Sea Dragon, Female Ruler of the East, admiral of the Grand Dragon Fleet (nippon hints?). Apparently she's more impulsive than the others and has an oddly expansionist outlook. In the past she led a failed naval invasion of the Southlands. Apparently she's Andy Hall's favourite dragon child.
- Dragon Children confirmed thousands of years old, but don't pre-date formation of Cathay.
- Definite species divide between Cathayan and 'Western' dragons, different origins. Cathayan Dragons look down on western dragons, see them as inferior for allowing themselves to be ridden. Cathayan culture looks down on high elves for riding them, which seems mad to them.
- No other Cathayan Dragons, other than the Emperor, Moon Empress, and the kiddies.
- Hint about the four other dragon children who are "unaccounted for" with reference to the one Archaeon fought in lore. Cathayan dragons are apparently corruptible by chaos. He stressed that four missing dragons could be in a bad way.
Cathayan Culture:
- Cathayan Dragons also look down on most gods for wanting to be worshipped instead of simply wanting to guide the world. They refuse to be recognised as gods and it seems to be implied that Cathayan culture does not permit theistic religion. Ancestor worship is huge in Cathay, however.
- Ancestor Worship is not centralised. It is conducted on a household level. No grand temples.
- Dragon Emperor and Moon Empress confirmed to have a specific goal they are working towards, not just maintaining Cathay. Also implied it may or may not be in the best interests of the Cathayan humans.
- Hinted that Cathayan Dragons (or at least some of them) dislike humans because of their links to the old ones. Some look at them as animals or pets, which is part of the reason other dragons see Zhao Ming as mad and undignified. However it's also hinted at that part of the reason he is so friendly with humans is because he knows it pisses off the other dragons, which is hilarious. Apparently he goes out of his way to irritate them because they exclude him.
- Confirmed lots of different tribal subcultures within Cathay that they will "get to" with dlc. Monkey warriors and dragon monks examples.
- Discussion of the hierarchal layers of Dragon Blooded, with dragon blood becoming more dilute over generations. The closer they are to pure dragon, the higher their rank in society. Only those with high amount of dragon blood can use Ying and Yang magic. Implied that lower magic users (alchemist/astromancers) are also dragon blooded, but more dilute.
- Celestial Dragon Monks: Confirmed in Cathay. Not a lot of new info, just that this is something that is real and may be elaborated on in the future (i.e. DLC). Name may be different when they are released, also.
Locations:
Fu Chao – Cosmopolitan sea trade city. Palace of the Sea Dragon is there. This city is full of ghettos for different races, "may even be most cosmopolitan city in the world."
Bei Chai – Another eastern city, dark reputation for harbouring the cults of Tzeentch. Mention of a Cult of the Painted Skin growing here. Confirmed that other chaos gods struggle to get a foothold in Cathay.
Celestial City in the clouds above Wei Jin – Home of the Jade Court. Location of the Wu Zing Compass, through which the Emperor directs the winds of magic to strengthen different areas of the empire in need, however only "when the winds are in harmony".
Great Dragon River – Carries on where the Great Bastion Ends. Rumoured that one of the missing children lies underneath that river. Also seen as the gateway to the underworld, you lose your soul by trying to cross it. No invading army has been able to survive the crossing.
Imperial Cathay (just south of Northern Provinces) – Small region ruled by Emperor and Empress directly.
Central Cathay – Breadbasket of empire. Ruled by Jade Dragon. Reasonably safe. If you want to life in Warhammer world, this is a pretty good choice. Even here though, forests are risky. Ruled by city of Shang Wu, big trade and farming area, point where many great rivers meet. Rivers are important highways in Cathay, much like real china.
Eastern Cathay -Wealthiest region, numerous major cities, lots of trade, large high elf population, as well as other races from across the world. Home of Dragon Fleets which guard against dark elf raiders and Nippon.
Western Cathay – Other than city of Shan Yang and the Iron Dragon, there is a place called the Tower of Ashir, as well as the warpstone desert. In this desert caravans have to use mirrored shields to protect from "warhammer radiation".
Southern Cathay – lots of foothills rolling into mountains of heaven, lots of tribes, unruly region due to monkey king presence. Also mention of "the occasional tiger man village".
The Great Bastion - Great Bastion built minus 1800. In history there is a mythic telling of how it was built by the dragons: Every brick fashioned by the Iron Dragon, breathed upon by the Fire Dragon, Blessed by the Emperor. Reality though, thousands of people used to build wall.
- Celestial Dragon Emperor is apparently linked (magically?) to the great bastion, bolstering its strength. Apparently if it falls, so too will he. Almost like they've become one entity.
- Confirmed that Mazdamundi's moving of mountains messed up the bastion for a while and Cathay was flooded with chaos.
- The bastion does occasionally get breached, but he stressed that it's rare and that Cathay has never been conquered.
- Terracotta Sentinels built into the walls, and they apparently do activate. Don't know if this translates to in game, though.
- Apparently many peasants don't even know Terracotta Sentinels are anything more than statues, due to how rarely they're activated within Cathay's borders.
Magic:
- All magic is divided first into Yin and Yang, then from there into their elements/individual winds. This suggests that Yin and Yang magic is created by pulling from multiple winds at once to create spells.
- Lore of Yang – High Celestial magic, associated with Dragon Emperor.
- Lore of Yin – Dark Celestial Magic, associated with Moon Empress. Close to lore of Dark, but not evil like dark elves.
- Magical Art of Fen Shi – Practiced by the. Dragons, basically hybrid lores.
- Only officially sanctioned magic other than Yin and Yang is astromancy. All others are not sanctioned due to the fact that Tzeentch can easily infiltrate through magical cults. Therefore anything other than Astromancy is considered risky and unsafe.
- Only reason Alchemists are permitted is because the Iron Dragon supports them, and he has the trust of his mother, the Moon Empress. Given that she's responsible for dealing with chaos cults, it seems like this is a point of weakness for her.
Enemies of Cathay
- Monkey King located in the mountains of heaven, which border Cathay and Ind.
- Exact date for lengthy disappearance of Dragon Emperor and Moon Empress: 1999 (Warhammer Y2K confirmed) During this time the monkey king seizes power WITH THE HELP OF CLAN ESHIN, and installs the Eshin Warlord Kasheek(?) as his advisor. The Emperor and Empress return in 2380 and cast down the Monkey King.
- Monkey Warriors confirmed. "second most populous creature other than humans in Cathay." Known to sometimes fight in the armies of Cathay.
- Nagas of Kuresh mentioned! Apparently the Fire Dragon is often required to broker a truce with the Monkey king in order to get his help defending from Ind and the Nagas of Kuresh, which the Monkey King thinks is hilarious. In fact, this is part of the reason why the dragons haven't attempted to purge the area of the Monkey King and his warriors.
- The Sea Dragon confirmed to protect the eastern coast from pirates, Dark Elves, and "another human nation that I'm not going to name" Nippon.
- Jade Vampires Confirmed! A lord fled from Nefarata and went to Cathay, seeding a new Jade bloodline. Didn't want to say any more than that.
- Clan Eshin's main nest is somewhere under the warpstone desert. No new lore (yet) on their origins.
- Constant issues with Dark Elves, who raid and take slaves constantly on the eastern coast.
- Chaos from the north and the cults of tzeentch inside their borders.
- Ogres in the west, they've been at war with them multiple times. Also suggested theory that Tzeentch may have had a hand in the Great Maw going so wrong for Cathay.
You can build your own demon prince now
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/19/build-your-own-daemon-prince-to-bring-a-personal-touch-to-the-end-times-in-total-war-warhammer-iii/
There are also loads of campaign improvements compare to the previous games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvF31MV2N1U
What kills the game for me is its just so slow to load anyrhing. Can't really just drop in and out for a quick game.
I was really looking forward to leading the forces of the empire o my griffon against the forces of chaos and then I got the first game and I had to spend countless boring hours slowly conquering my own Empire for no reason at all. It was such a slog and so boring I eventually just stopped playing and never had a desire to go back. I hope the sequels were less lame.
For me what kills is what kills it for most TW games: when it reaches the stage that I need two full stack armies for each battle. NO WAY I am microing all those reinforcements arriving later in the battle across the whole map while fighting the battle in the middle. Just no. So I autoresolve. Which is boring.
Quote from: Valmy on January 25, 2022, 04:54:35 PM
I was really looking forward to leading the forces of the empire o my griffon against the forces of chaos and then I got the first game and I had to spend countless boring hours slowly conquering my own Empire for no reason at all. It was such a slog and so boring I eventually just stopped playing and never had a desire to go back. I hope the sequels were less lame.
There's more of a EU3-lite HRE mechanic to it these days.
https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Authority
Quote from: Tamas on January 25, 2022, 04:56:32 PM
For me what kills is what kills it for most TW games: when it reaches the stage that I need two full stack armies for each battle. NO WAY I am microing all those reinforcements arriving later in the battle across the whole map while fighting the battle in the middle. Just no. So I autoresolve. Which is boring.
Get Lightning Strike on your lords and you can have one on one battles every time!
With TW games I typically have a good time until it gets silly/grindy, and then I just start a new campaign.
Yeah, the end-game is pretty dull. The mid-game isn't that great either, IMO. But the early games can be pretty fun.
I find the controls pretty annoying though, so honestly I'll probably give TW:WIII a miss.
Preloading this now (you can also preload on Gamepass if you want). :cool:
TWW3 is getting Immortal Empires in August, aka large world map with every faction on it. Lots of good stuff here: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/intro-to-immortal-empires/
The map for Wahrammer III's Immortal Empires Campaign has been revealed (which will let you play as the Empires from I & II, provided you have them):
(https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2022/06/17110402/wh3_dlc_ie_parchment_map_english.jpg)
Full size: https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2022/06/17110402/wh3_dlc_ie_parchment_map_english.jpg
For comparison, the current map:
(https://preview.redd.it/6ved5mgixse71.jpg?auto=webp&s=53a5e493b392bf97ee1f1d0eee95694ea0a133e8)
So it seems significantly larger.
Video preview:
TW:W2 is one of those games I'd really like to play, but then also know that it would possibly cost me hundreds of hours to play only a few races. :D
I did click through the factions just now. The voice of Morathi (Cult of Pleasure) seemed familiar, so I looked it up. It's the same voice as the female Sith Warrior in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the only main story campaign I finished twice. :D
Rough comparison old vs. new map.
(https://external-preview.redd.it/rkTAvOaf4CA1K-jtGEJaHeMbD3eR9rpGR1h9NSETEiU.png?format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7bfe9362f75f9c85656b60869f6ba19cc02414)
I really should get back to number 2 sometime. Though the load times are off putting.
Quote from: Syt on June 28, 2022, 05:21:33 AMWahrammer
Just noticed this typo, and I think I like it better than the correct spelling. Wah-Rammer sounds like an Orc battering ram. :P
Or Dietrich Wahrammer, Imperial artillerist? :P
Quote from: Solmyr on June 29, 2022, 03:29:21 AMOr Dietrich Wahrammer, Imperial artillerist? :P
Who doesn't enjoy ramming a good Wah every now and then?
:lol:
Along with Immortal Empires there will be a major rework of Warriors of Chaos campaign and battle mechanics, plus four new Chaos champions introduced: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-introducing-the-coc/
(that url is totally intentional since the first lord introduced is Azazel, champion of Slaanesh :perv:)
Second Chaos champion revealed, Festus the Leechlord trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh49KKpbZxQ