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Finland, Sweden + NATO

Started by Jacob, April 13, 2022, 12:42:43 PM

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Duque de Bragança

Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 03:59:15 AMRussia has put up posters in Moscow outside the Swedish embassy complaining about famous Swedish "Nazis" from history. Writers, film directors etc. Russia's propaganda game continues to be abysmal.

Do they mention Bergman?

The Brain

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 03, 2022, 07:32:52 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 03:59:15 AMRussia has put up posters in Moscow outside the Swedish embassy complaining about famous Swedish "Nazis" from history. Writers, film directors etc. Russia's propaganda game continues to be abysmal.

Do they mention Bergman?

They do.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Legbiter

When Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?
Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Tamas

Quote from: Jacob on May 02, 2022, 08:41:07 PMPutin remains a master strategist.

You are just jealous that his masterly maneuvers forced NATO's hands to reveal and hasten their aggressive enveloping of Russia.

Legbiter

Quote from: Tamas on May 03, 2022, 11:29:18 AMYou are just jealous that his masterly maneuvers forced NATO's hands to reveal and hasten their aggressive enveloping of Russia.

Before the war this was the NATO border situation.



That's some major "encirclement" right there...
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Tamas

You appear unaware of that completely baseless JPEG that has a world map showing NATO bases absolutely everywhere in the world around Russia, which has been a trusty aid of Russiapologists for the past decade or so.

Legbiter

Quote from: Tamas on May 03, 2022, 11:40:34 AMYou appear unaware of that completely baseless JPEG that has a world map showing NATO bases absolutely everywhere in the world around Russia, which has been a trusty aid of Russiapologists for the past decade or so.

Yeah the vatniks are about to get a lot more expensive NATO border plus an implacable enemy right on their doorstep. Finally they'll have something to complain about. 
Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

The Brain

Quote from: Legbiter on May 03, 2022, 10:47:42 AMWhen Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

Join NATO.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Josquius

Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on May 03, 2022, 10:47:42 AMWhen Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

Join NATO.

Probably.

Though the sensible thing to do seems to be hide behind Finland.

Or would that leave gotland too much of an even more important and tempting target.
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The Brain

Quote from: Josquius on May 03, 2022, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on May 03, 2022, 10:47:42 AMWhen Finland joins NATO what's Sweden going to do?

Join NATO.

Probably.

Though the sensible thing to do seems to be hide behind Finland.

Or would that leave gotland too much of an even more important and tempting target.

My impression is indeed that staying out would leave Gotland way too open to invasion.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

grumbler

This would seem to be a good time to fast-track Georgia into NATO.  Just to blow the Russians' minds to bits.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Duque de Bragança

Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 08:06:04 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 03, 2022, 07:32:52 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 03, 2022, 03:59:15 AMRussia has put up posters in Moscow outside the Swedish embassy complaining about famous Swedish "Nazis" from history. Writers, film directors etc. Russia's propaganda game continues to be abysmal.

Do they mention Bergman?
They do.

But not Dolph Lundgren? Good.

Sheilbh

Interesting - US and UK apparently offered defence assurances to Finland and Sweden while they were making applictions. But seems like Ben Wallace has slightly expanded that from a UK perspective (which sort of makes sense given JEF of NATO/non-NATO and EU/non-EU countries) in Helsinki today.

He said that in the event of an attack on Sweden or Finland - whether they're in NATO or not - the UK would "come to their defence". It's not quite as encompassing as NATO obligations and has perhaps always been there, but it feels worthwhile making the sub-text text at this point. From what I've read it looks like Labour are basically sympathetic on this too so there's consensus on it whoever's in power, which is nice. Obviously if they join NATO then it's far more direct.
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

The one benefit of Johnson being a disgrace is that he and his party are super-eager to be involved in war things to keep voter attention on that.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tamas on May 04, 2022, 09:43:23 AMThe one benefit of Johnson being a disgrace is that he and his party are super-eager to be involved in war things to keep voter attention on that.
Not voters - voters don't matter right now and are only paying a bit of attention. The only people who can remove Johnson are Tory MPs and they do care and are paying attention. Ben Wallace is, after all, probably the most plausible successor to Johnson (and Liz Truss in the FCDO is another).

But it's also helped by Labour being desperate to put clear red water between where they are now v when Corbyn was leader :lol:

I think the consensus around this (and Hong Kong, Ukraine etc) is really striking and interesting. I think basically after the understandable and justifiable post-Iraq isolation that the UK's position on lots of issues seems to have snapped back to a sort of active (little bit interventionist) liberalism. From my perspective it's not an unattractive position. That consensus might be Blair's biggest legacy, despite it also containing his biggest failures.
Let's bomb Russia!