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#31
Off the Record / Re: Football (Soccer) Thread
Last post by Josquius - August 10, 2022, 12:47:16 PM
A thought has just come to me.
With women's football being big in the news at the moment... Could there be a legal case against man City et al for paying their women's team so much less than their men?

Yes yes. We all know the reasons why this is so. It's mad to expect the women's teams to be earning such riches.

But could be interesting for taking a shot at the insane wages of top men's teams... Maybe give women a bit of a boost though perhaps its using them
#32
Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic
Last post by celedhring - August 10, 2022, 12:32:24 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 10, 2022, 11:17:12 AMIt appears that Domino's Pizza is withdrawing from the Italian market (which they entered in 2015).

I'm shocked  :D

I mean, when I was over there this summer domestic takeaway places had some really outstanding pizza given the price, I can't see Domino's making much of a dent in that marketplace.
#33
Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-1...
Last post by Crazy_Ivan80 - August 10, 2022, 12:07:39 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 10, 2022, 10:17:24 AMI wonder what can be done with current inhabitants of Crimea once/if Ukraine takes it back.

The 2014 referendum was rigged of course, but I think even if it hadn't been, with international observers giving it an A+, the "join russia" option probably would have won.

Ukraine could invite the Tatars and descendants back. And expel Russians of course. Call it a population transfer
#34
Off the Record / Re: The China Thread
Last post by Crazy_Ivan80 - August 10, 2022, 12:04:54 PM
Iirc both Belgium and the Netherlands have some advanced chip production but not in amounts that rival Taiwan. Not by a mile.
#35
Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...
Last post by Sheilbh - August 10, 2022, 11:39:18 AM
Yeah. It's more constrained for Labour on what they can do both just because of the economic reality and budget they're going to be handed if they win. But also the political issues.

I think in part that's why I think Starmer needs to set out more - I don't think he needs to give policies necessarily but just some sense of what his vision is and what those policies are for. In part that might just reflect the quality in shadow cabinet too - Blair, Brown, Cook, Dewar etc were very big figures to work out a program and a strategy for government. Except for Reeves I'm not sure Starmer trusts/works with any of the shadow cabinet particularly closely - but then I'm not sure who he would. I like Lisa Nandy but she's the only one who springs to mind.

QuoteI guess the question really is: where is Britain. I've been reading my whole life that the "natural" government in Britain is Tory, if that is actually true (and I don't know that I fully believe it, but a lot of Brits seem to), is the country really the right ground for a true leftist party?
I don't know if it's about Britain. It's absolutely true that most Tory leaders become prime minister because they're in power or they win it - I think only three leaders who faced Blair didn't become PM. At that point people were writing about the "strange death of Conservative England". I think a big part of the problem is the Labour Party - and it reminds me of when I read Canadians here posting about their Tories/right wing because so much of it seems very recognisable.

Labour is ideological. It isn't just about winning power, it's about building a new Jerusalem and there's a section of Labour that I genuinely think is happier in opposition going on protest marches. When Labour wins power it normally achieves things, but every time as soon as they lose the party goes into a factional meltdown over the failure of that Labour government. There's a massive fight because it was too timid, cautious and, actually, basically right wing.

It happened for about a decade in the 50s, in the 80s and in the 2010s (and a bit in the 70s). And if a main party is tearing itself apart and arguing about how awful they were in government, I don't think you can blame voters for taking them at their word and voting for the other guys.

The fights seem particularly vicious in the Labour party as well - maybe again because it is about ideology/core beliefs rather than just political advantage. But it's incredible for example to this day to hear any moderate Labour grandee from the 80s, like Lord Kinnock or Roy Hattersley, talk about Tony Benn because they clearly still loathe him. And I think in 30-40 years there'll be an elderly Keir Starmer or Wes Streeting speaking with real detestation about Corbyn or, say, Richard Burgon (or whoever the next generation leader of the hard-left is).
#36
Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic
Last post by Jacob - August 10, 2022, 11:17:12 AM
It appears that Domino's Pizza is withdrawing from the Italian market (which they entered in 2015).
#37
Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...
Last post by Gups - August 10, 2022, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 10, 2022, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on August 10, 2022, 07:28:10 AM
Quote from: The Larch on August 10, 2022, 05:58:03 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 09, 2022, 02:09:57 PMWeirdly Janan Ganesh wrote about this today and I think he's probably broadly right:

So what's the point? That Labour should stop being even remotely left wing and move into being a permanently center party?

I guess the question really is: where is Britain. I've been reading my whole life that the "natural" government in Britain is Tory, if that is actually true (and I don't know that I fully believe it, but a lot of Brits seem to), is the country really the right ground for a true leftist party?

In my mind the core value of traditional Labour, when it had its peak of success, wasn't its socialist behaviors (and there were many), I think it was more its nationalist and protectionist behaviors. I think when Labour became the party that could credibly be seen as globalist and anti-British even in some sense, it started to operate at a divergent set of values from its working-class base. Labour's leadership seems crafted for educated lefties less so than for the people who sweat for a living--the traditional base of the party.

What do you consider is traditional Labour's peak of success is? Harold Wilson? In my mind it'd be Atlee's post war government, which was extremely socialist-y, and basically the creator of today's British welfare state.

But which fundamentally lost (and was out of power for 13 years) initially because of an attack from the Bevinite left and thereafter because it was divided between left and right.
#38
Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-1...
Last post by Josquius - August 10, 2022, 10:53:54 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on August 10, 2022, 10:30:19 AMI consider it highly unlikely Ukraine ever gets Crimea back, it would require Putin to be dead and his successors to decide they would rather have normalized relations than land that they never really needed in any case other than pride related reasons.

On top of that I think basically the entire peninsula is now Russian expats or strongly pro-Russian Ukrainians, I think they would be pretty resistant to being merged back with Kiev.

We aren't talking about Kalingrad here though.
Crimea not that long gone that the native inhabitants who fled have given up on and forgotten their homes.
I'd expect quite a number of the newly arrived Russians to be pretty flaky.

Though  revisiting the earlier civil war talk interesting times do lie ahead as Ukraine reclaims lands in traditionally pro-Russian regions.
#39
Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...
Last post by Gups - August 10, 2022, 10:52:25 AM
Leaving aside the clear difference in quality between Blair and his shadow cabinet circa 1995 and Starmer and his in 2022, it has to be said that Labour had a lot more options to differentiate itself from the Tories in the mid 1990s (minimum wage, education spending, clause 28, free entry to museums and galleries, Sure Start etc) it didn't have the division between its middle class and working class bases (because the effects of globalisation and the englargement of the EU had not become manifest) and it had a realtively benign economic state to work from.

The options available to Starmer are really limited where effectively the most important aspect of Government will be crisis management.
#40
Off the Record / Re: Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-1...
Last post by Zoupa - August 10, 2022, 10:45:44 AM
Kyiv.