Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Darth Wagtaros]

I'm sure Hamas will agree to and abide by any ceasefire. 

[Tamas]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/its-simply-a-call-for-freedom-marchers-defend-contentious-slogan-at-london-palestine-protest

From river to the sea Palestine will be free chanted the London crowd. I know for a lot of them is simply ignorance of what that actually means, but for how many?

[Admiral Yi]

Also, seems like the US administration has fully embraced collective punishment, to the extent that Biden has all but washed his hands of the 500-600 Americans in Gaza.

Is this another way of saying the US has not agreed to pay the ransom Hamas is demanding?

[mongers]

Also, seems like the US administration has fully embraced collective punishment, to the extent that Biden has all but washed his hands of the 500-600 Americans in Gaza.

Is this another way of saying the US has not agreed to pay the ransom Hamas is demanding?

No.

[Josquius]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/21/its-simply-a-call-for-freedom-marchers-defend-contentious-slogan-at-london-palestine-protest

From river to the sea Palestine will be free chanted the London crowd. I know for a lot of them is simply ignorance of what that actually means, but for how many?

It's not a slogan I'm familiar with but the people there claim not to mean it that way at all and a quick google seems to be imply it's used variably from destroy all Jews nuts through to regular two state and single state solution people?

I mean thinking about it literally from the river to the sea Palestine should be free... West bank and gaza yes.
If it is usually offensive its quite the round about dog whistle.

It certainly seems to be something mired in bad faith from both sides.

[Barrister]

It's not a slogan I'm familiar with but the people there claim not to mean it that way at all and a quick google seems to be imply it's used variably from destroy all Jews nuts through to regular two state and single state solution people?

I mean thinking about it literally from the river to the sea Palestine should be free... West bank and gaza yes.
If it is usually offensive its quite the round about dog whistle.

It certainly seems to be something mired in bad faith from both sides.

"From the river to the sea" is a phrase I am familiar with for many years.

I always understood that to mean the destruction of Israel and the creation of a Palestinian state instead.

Whether that meant killing all the Jews, or just expelling them, was left undecided.

[OttoVonBismarck]

To be fair "from the river to the sea" is used by anyone who claims they are the only valid residents of the region. Jewish extremists / far right nationalists use the phrase regularly as well--obviously with the opposite connotation from the Palestinians who use it.

[garbon]

Also, seems like the US administration has fully embraced collective punishment, to the extent that Biden has all but washed his hands of the 500-600 Americans in Gaza.

Is this another way of saying the US has not agreed to pay the ransom Hamas is demanding?

No.

Strange, when I look at headlines all I see are headlines saying Biden has called for Gaza invasion to be delayed until more American hostages can be released.

[Duque de Bragança]

I think that the evidence indicates that the mass expulsions in the Balkans were of Muslims as a whole, of which Turks were a minority (25%?).  Not that this changes anyone's conclusions, but I am just noting it for the record.

It's a good point actually, with variations for Greece.
The current native muslim population of Greece (Western Thrace mostly),  which has not shrunk due to state-orchestrated terror and oppression, unlike Turkey, since the Treaty of Lausanne, is 50 % Turkish-speaking, 35 % Pomak (slavic-speaking) and 15 % Gypsy.

The millet system, mixing up all muslims togethers, a legacy from the Turks, complicates things.

[mongers]

Also, seems like the US administration has fully embraced collective punishment, to the extent that Biden has all but washed his hands of the 500-600 Americans in Gaza.

Is this another way of saying the US has not agreed to pay the ransom Hamas is demanding?

No.

Strange, when I look at headlines all I see are headlines saying Biden has called for Gaza invasion to be delayed until more American hostages can be released.

I wasn't talking about the hostages.

[garbon]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

[mongers]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

[crazy canuck]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

I applaud you for continuing to try to explain basic facts. But very few here want to hear anything but Israel is always right and any criticism of Israel is always wrong.

It is scary to see, but that is the world we live in.

I'm not sure why it is so hard for people to understand that it is possible to both condemn HAMAS and have concern for Palestinians. But again that is now the world we live in.

[garbon]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

Because you have provided no evidence of your assertion despite multiple opportunities to do so. You have clarified but still no support.

[Tamas]

Talking out your ass is most like it.

What so hard to understand, there are probably two dozen Isreali-Americans/US citizens held hostage by hamas and 500-600 Palestinians-Americans who can't get out of Gaza due to the Rafah crossing being closed to them.

I applaud you for continuing to try to explain basic facts. But very few here want to hear anything but Israel is always right and any criticism of Israel is always wrong.

It is scary to see, but that is the world we live in.

I'm not sure why it is so hard for people to understand that it is possible to both condemn HAMAS and have concern for Palestinians. But again that is now the world we live in.

For me what is frustrating and telling is that there is no end to protests and articles about the tragedy that is inevitably unfolding in Gaza. Yet none of those protests or articles (apart from a sentence or two) let alone separate protests/articles aim to address the problem that Hamas -the government of Gaza- perpetrated a terror attack on hundreds if not thousands of Israeli civilians. That is already forgotten and gone from concerns of the general world. It seems if Israel opted to do nothing and simply return to the status quo, passively waiting for the next such massacre, that would be a-ok with a lot of people.