Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Sheilbh]

Stars of David were painted on more than a few dozen buildings in the 13th, 14th, 15th and 18th arrondissement in Paris.
Not dissimilar to the sign for Christian that ISIS painted on buildings in Syria and Iraq.

There are also European precedents for marking businesses and homes occupied by Jews.

The horror here is not the novelty but the echo.

[Valmy]

I think the security decision HAS to be outsourced. I said back in 2006 that some kind of third party had to step in and disarm Hamas and provide security for Gaza and enable a functional government to be able to be established. 

There's no 3rd party interested in having its people be decapited ruling over that bunch until they're ready to properly rule themselves.

I know. You would have to be crazy to do something like that. Not even Egypt or Jordan wanted to govern Gaza and the West Bank. Can you imagine a few thousand in an international peacekeeping brigade trying to do it?

But it is the only way out. Palestine needs a force to guarantee their security and disarm their nutters. Israel cannot do it.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Stars of David were painted on more than a few dozen buildings in the 13th, 14th, 15th and 18th arrondissement in Paris.
Not dissimilar to the sign for Christian that ISIS painted on buildings in Syria and Iraq.

There are also European precedents for marking businesses and homes occupied by Jews.

The horror here is not the novelty but the echo.

sure, but we all know from which corner it's coming now.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I think the security decision HAS to be outsourced. I said back in 2006 that some kind of third party had to step in and disarm Hamas and provide security for Gaza and enable a functional government to be able to be established. 

There's no 3rd party interested in having its people be decapited ruling over that bunch until they're ready to properly rule themselves.

I know. You would have to be crazy to do something like that. Not even Egypt or Jordan wanted to govern Gaza and the West Bank. Can you imagine a few thousand in an international peacekeeping brigade trying to do it?

But it is the only way out. Palestine needs a force to guarantee their security and disarm their nutters. Israel cannot do it.

Timur might be able to, but he's dead

[Sheilbh]

sure, but we all know from which corner it's coming now.

Perhaps in this case and it may even be likely. Although I don't think that's the only source of anti-semitism in Europe. But if we're talking about anti-semitism in Europe I think the resonance and particular pain is because of European history. In the clip of a French Jewish woman crying about this happening to her home, she said "again I find the hatred I saw as a child." I think there needs to be a bit more reckoning.

[viper37]

The Germans made peace.

The Germans were offered peace.

[PJL]

The Germans made peace.

The Germans were offered peace.

It was unconditional surrender in WW2 - no peace terms given.

[Valmy]

The Germans made peace.

The Germans were offered peace.

They were dictated peace. There was no offer.

[viper37]

I think the security decision HAS to be outsourced. I said back in 2006 that some kind of third party had to step in and disarm Hamas and provide security for Gaza and enable a functional government to be able to be established. 

There's no 3rd party interested in having its people be decapited ruling over that bunch until they're ready to properly rule themselves.

I know. You would have to be crazy to do something like that. Not even Egypt or Jordan wanted to govern Gaza and the West Bank. Can you imagine a few thousand in an international peacekeeping brigade trying to do it?

But it is the only way out. Palestine needs a force to guarantee their security and disarm their nutters. Israel cannot do it.

Israel has made sure Gaza can't be governed, and as it is, the WB can't be either.

[viper37]

The Germans made peace.

The Germans were offered peace.

They were dictated peace. There was no offer.

Same difference.  German officers sought terms, they were offered unconditional surrender.

[Valmy]

I think the security decision HAS to be outsourced. I said back in 2006 that some kind of third party had to step in and disarm Hamas and provide security for Gaza and enable a functional government to be able to be established. 

There's no 3rd party interested in having its people be decapited ruling over that bunch until they're ready to properly rule themselves.

I know. You would have to be crazy to do something like that. Not even Egypt or Jordan wanted to govern Gaza and the West Bank. Can you imagine a few thousand in an international peacekeeping brigade trying to do it?

But it is the only way out. Palestine needs a force to guarantee their security and disarm their nutters. Israel cannot do it.

Israel has made sure Gaza can't be governed, and as it is, the WB can't be either.

Yes I know. As I said, Israel has done much to make the situation as bad as possible.

[Valmy]

Same difference.  German officers sought terms, they were offered unconditional surrender.

And the Palestinians have been offered many deals, shitty ones but still deals, they just haven't accepted them.

Still better than unconditional surrender.

[crazy canuck]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/31/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-zack-beauchamp.html

"So I wanted to start with something you wrote, which is that "Two things are true. Israel must do something, and what it's doing now is indefensible." And I want to take them in turn."


The latest podcast from Ezra Klein

I strongly recommend it to those of you who take the view that shit happens in war, and so all the killing in Gaza is regrettable, but understandable.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Dude stop posting podcast links. I'm not listening to some imbecile's hour long podcast to hear the same rehashed arguments you have made. Civilians die in war, there is no meaningful evidence the IDF is systemically violating the laws of war. All the podcast links in the world don't change that, the podcast doesn't have meaningful information we can't get from all the reading we've already done on this.

[grumbler]

They sure ain't targeting only Hamas sites though.

I would think that Israeli targeting data would be pretty highly classified, so you can understand my skepticism to you claim to know what Israel is targeting and that some targets are not associated with Hamas.

And they've admitted they don't make any distinction between a civilian and a Hamas supporter.

Source?