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#1
Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023
Last post by OttoVonBismarck - Today at 12:34:22 PMQuote from: Josquius on Today at 10:10:01 AMAnd Germany shouldn't have lost most of eastern territories post WW2. That was a fucked up action forced on the world out of the grim reality of needing to keep the Soviets happy.
Wars have consequences. When you start a war and kill millions of people, the consequences are intrinsically just. Germany could never have been permitted to do what it did and simply return to the status quo, it needed, and justly received, serious punishment.
Also using the term "genocide" to refer to what was done to the Germans after WWII shows why you and people like you need to not use that word.
The Palestinians have not killed as many, but they are likewise worthy of punishment--in this case losing validity of their land claims. (Note, Israel could still always negotiate concessions to them, the Palestinians just no longer have any moral validity to their land claims.)
#2
Gaming HQ / Re: The Miscellaneous PC & vid...
Last post by Jacob - Today at 12:22:04 PMThat's cool. Thanks for the heads up - I might get it once it's done.
#3
Off the Record / Re: NHL Hockey thread
Last post by Jacob - Today at 12:18:41 PMIt's a bit like showing up at a wedding and loudly and incessantly talking about how much better some other wedding you went to last week was.
#4
Off the Record / Re: Archaeologists do it in ho...
Last post by Jacob - Today at 12:08:06 PMThose Yamnaya show up everywhere!
#5
Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023
Last post by Razgovory - Today at 11:37:49 AMJust like Luhansk and Donetsk people's republics.
#6
Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023
Last post by Threviel - Today at 11:33:30 AMPalestinians might not have been a nation in the 40's, but almost a century of conflict have no doubt made them one now.
#7
Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023
Last post by Josquius - Today at 10:10:01 AMYou're the one ridiculously throwing around the word genocide here....
And of course colonialism plays a huge rule. Dumb to argue otherwise.
Fuck your nations. The Palestinians are a people. Whether they're just a subgroup of Arabs or a seperate people is completely irrelevant and arbitrary.
Do Texans matter less because they're just a subtype of Americans ergo Mexico seizing Texas (daft theoretical yes) would be fine?
Trying to fight to defend your land doesn't invalidate your claim to the land. Especially considering all those Palestinians who didn't fight in any conflict.
And Germany shouldn't have lost most of eastern territories post WW2. That was a fucked up action forced on the world out of the grim reality of needing to keep the Soviets happy.
Nazi genocide didn't make the genocide of the Eastern Germans OK.
And of course colonialism plays a huge rule. Dumb to argue otherwise.
Fuck your nations. The Palestinians are a people. Whether they're just a subgroup of Arabs or a seperate people is completely irrelevant and arbitrary.
Do Texans matter less because they're just a subtype of Americans ergo Mexico seizing Texas (daft theoretical yes) would be fine?
Trying to fight to defend your land doesn't invalidate your claim to the land. Especially considering all those Palestinians who didn't fight in any conflict.
And Germany shouldn't have lost most of eastern territories post WW2. That was a fucked up action forced on the world out of the grim reality of needing to keep the Soviets happy.
Nazi genocide didn't make the genocide of the Eastern Germans OK.
#8
Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023
Last post by OttoVonBismarck - Today at 10:01:42 AMYou guys just need to stop using the word genocide, you do not know what it means, and you are using it as a means of creating a false narrative. No genocide is happening in Gaza, none is going to happen. The only remotely genocidal thing is the intention of Palestinians, who are genocidal by nature. But like a viper in a terrarium, they lack the means to inflict their injury on the Jews, at least at present (many posters in this thread hate that the Jews have the stronger military, and would happily cheer if the Arabs had a force capable of committing genocide.)
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has nothing to do with colonialism, it never had, and you should also quit making that claim.
It also has nothing to do with nationalism or national self determination--Palestinians are not a Nation, they are Arab nationality.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a simple land conflict, one in which both sides have historically valid claims to the land in question. However, that historical validity has to be analyzed through the lens of subsequent events.
Somewhere along the line, and I couldn't say precisely where--the Second Intifada is a decent choice, but you could go as late as October-7, the Palestinians lost any moral legitimacy to their land claim. Their claim should be viewed as intrinsically invalid. They have forfeited their just rights to the land due to their behavior. No different than Germany forfeiting its just rights to many of its Eastern territories due to its behavior in the 20th century.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has nothing to do with colonialism, it never had, and you should also quit making that claim.
It also has nothing to do with nationalism or national self determination--Palestinians are not a Nation, they are Arab nationality.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a simple land conflict, one in which both sides have historically valid claims to the land in question. However, that historical validity has to be analyzed through the lens of subsequent events.
Somewhere along the line, and I couldn't say precisely where--the Second Intifada is a decent choice, but you could go as late as October-7, the Palestinians lost any moral legitimacy to their land claim. Their claim should be viewed as intrinsically invalid. They have forfeited their just rights to the land due to their behavior. No different than Germany forfeiting its just rights to many of its Eastern territories due to its behavior in the 20th century.
#9
Off the Record / Re: TV/Movies Megathread
Last post by Syt - Today at 08:59:00 AMCheers Season 8. Episodes were broadcast in 1989, and it's interesting to contrast the look of a 1990 show with the early 1982 episodes.
The show has settled into a comfortable sitcom routine by now. Spotted two fun guest stars at ca. half way through S8.
Young Kevin Conroy plays a Red Sox player that Carla has the hots for. It would be two or three years before he would perform as Batman in the animated series, a role that would define most of his career.
A few episodes later, Lisa Kudrow in one of her first TV roles ... really weird to see her with black hair.
The show has settled into a comfortable sitcom routine by now. Spotted two fun guest stars at ca. half way through S8.
Young Kevin Conroy plays a Red Sox player that Carla has the hots for. It would be two or three years before he would perform as Batman in the animated series, a role that would define most of his career.
A few episodes later, Lisa Kudrow in one of her first TV roles ... really weird to see her with black hair.
#10
Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023
Last post by Josquius - Today at 08:25:02 AMQuote from: Iormlund on Today at 06:30:29 AMQuote from: Josquius on Today at 06:12:56 AMQuote from: Iormlund on Today at 05:00:06 AMYou try having your town bombed to hell every night and your kids starved to death and see how readily you agree with shit being thrown the other way.Quote from: Josquius on Today at 01:05:40 AMYeah.... It's totally the Palestinians who are the genocidal ones here...
Going door to door slaughtering and abducting people, regardless of their age or combatant status seems pretty genocidal to me.
And an overwhelming majority of Palestinians approve of the Oct 7 attacks (85% or so IIRC).
You said they are not genocidal. I pointed out that's demonstrably untrue. We have seen what they do when they are let loose and they themselves have repeatedly put forward their support for those actions.
Part of the problem is we (as in the West) are constantly robbing Palestinians of their agency. They can and have chosen repeatedly to continue the war of 1948 rather than move on. And we need to acknowledge that.QuoteBut I see the point completely eluded you here.
Denying the Palestinian people even exist and insisting the very word is a slur is pretty damn far beyond the pale.
I'm not particularly interested in what Otto said, which is why I cropped that quote.
Yet my post means nothing without it. It is as a direct reply. Claiming a people are genocidal when he has the view not only shoukd they be wiped out but they don't even exist.