I don't think we had a thread about this. The bitcoin is enjoying a meteoric rise in price as of late. Are we seeing the digitization of the tulip bulbs, or were the early adopter nuts onto something, and now stand to earn windfall profits?
The nuts are on something allright.
Tulips.
As a speculative device it is alive and strong, as a real currency it needs to have stability.
The obvious value in bitcoins, and other non governmental currencies, is money laundering and tax evasion. There are significant banking regulations to keep money from being unreported, which creates demand for any highly liquid asset that escapes those regulations. I can't imagine that bitcoin is going to be able to continue long term (at least as originally envisioned).
I concur.
Hungary uses the Beetcoin. I don't know how successful it is though.
The obvious weakness of the bitcoin is that it has no legally enforceable value.
It's too late to get on the bitcoin bandwagon.
Litecoin is the new shitz.
I can think of some reasons for the price rise:
1) The file encrypter scammers demand payment in Bitcoin, so are creating demand akin to forced short covers.
2) There has been evidence of recent Chinese buying which likely reflects another iteration of the endless quest of wealthy Chinese to find someplace to store their wealth.
3) Total Bitcoin creation recently passed the halfway point to its cap, so the supply cliff is on the horizon.
4) The Bitcoin "market" is highly prone to manipulation.
I've heard one of the biggest reasons for its current high price is somewhat wealthy Chinese people using it to get money out of China.
My first though here was- doesn't that mean all the bitcoins will eventually end up in China and there'll be nothing left in China? But by their nature of being data and not something physical it seems the same coin can be used many times for the same purpose- Chinese guy buys bit coin from Chinese company, sells it to Canadian company, Canadian company gives bitcoin password to Chinese company which is actually the same company. I guess some people want money in China.
The supply cliff is an interesting one with bitcoins. It doesn't really affect other currencies. What happens when it is reached?
Most real money is just data too.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 28, 2013, 01:12:50 AM
Most real money is just data too.
Not in the same way. I can't just give you a $10 string.
Quote from: Tyr on November 28, 2013, 01:08:42 AM
The supply cliff is an interesting one with bitcoins. It doesn't really affect other currencies. What happens when it is reached?
Either values increase indefinitely in which case people will hoard and render it useless for its supposed purpose as a currency, or the entire thing will collapse, or there will be volatile swings as people try to figure which outcome is more likely,
Can the supply be increased?
Apparently there is only going to be like 20 million of them or something. What would be the implied value of endgame bitcoins be comparing that to the projected dollar supply, I wonder?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2013, 01:41:19 AM
Can the supply be increased?
Possibly, but only by the guy who invented the algorithm that creates them, and nobody knows who he (or she, or they) is - not even the Bitcoin foundation. All they have is an unreliable email address.
Quote from: grumbler on November 28, 2013, 12:22:07 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2013, 01:41:19 AM
Can the supply be increased?
Possibly, but only by the guy who invented the algorithm that creates them, and nobody knows who he (or she, or they) is - not even the Bitcoin foundation. All they have is an unreliable email address.
Is even that true? My impression was that the algorithm is based on a cryptographic algorithm that, once you set in motion, provides a limited number of solutions. That said, I didn't look into this that much, and given the history of unregulated financial stuff, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are some complicated backdoors there.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 28, 2013, 08:40:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 28, 2013, 01:41:19 AM
Can the supply be increased?
Nope.
Supply is increasing as we speak.
It will eventually hit a peak and at that point, the supply can not be increased.
Quote from: DGuller on November 28, 2013, 12:27:59 PM
Is even that true? My impression was that the algorithm is based on a cryptographic algorithm that, once you set in motion, provides a limited number of solutions. That said, I didn't look into this that much, and given the history of unregulated financial stuff, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are some complicated backdoors there.
The bitcoin algorithm currently releases one bitcoin per solution, and the presumption is that, based on the statements of the anonymous creator, it will always do so. But that won't be known for sure until the process runs its course. It is possible that this is all an elaborate practical joke or a troll of some kind, and that the last solution could release enough bitcoins, for instance, to ruin the market. No one knows for sure. Granted, it would be the most elaborate practical joke in history, and the people behind it would have to be damned sure they could never be traced, but it is possible. Not likely, mind you, but possible.
the whole system is just too dodgy for me to believe that it will last.
Quote from: The Brain on November 27, 2013, 04:49:28 PM
Hungary uses the Beetcoin. I don't know how successful it is though.
^_^
:rolleyes:
I made 600$ net of fees trading on Solana coins.
I reinvested half the profits on Bitcoims ETFs, and hald more im Solana..
The ETFs are holding their lines about as solidly as an Ukrainian division facing waves after waves of Russian conscripts. It's taken a beating, but theres's no real losses, there's still a 3% growth.
The Solana coins however... I has 2200$ invested. It was hovering over 2400$ last Wednesday. "Ah, one more week and I can sell for a small profit, take my gains, reinvest later."
Two days later, -15%. "Don't be alarmed" says the crypto bro. 3 more days and it's -31%. There's talks of bc miners dumping theie gains on the network, so it'll be a downward spiral.
This is gonna take years to get back to a decent value.
Well, I wanted to practice and to learn. I have my lesson, and I know there's only three ways to make money:
- be large enough to have a robot watch the markets for you
- invest in ETFs.
- be an insomniac and watch your charts 24/24
Except these are not shares they may never get back to their former value.
Quote from: Tamas on April 16, 2024, 02:55:30 AMExcept these are not shares they may never get back to their former value.
No, they are not.
But some shares never get their value back. I could invest in Lion Electric Vehicles right now at 1,07US$ a share. It suffered an 87% loss over the last 3 months. I'm quite positive the company will bounce back.
But a stock so low could mean two things:
1) The company is going to be bought by a rival and suffer a rationalization and the stock will get lower before it jumps back taking many years to recoup my investment
2) The company will get off the stock market and privatize itself with the help of semi private equity funds in Québec and I will never recoup my investment in the shares.
Now, back the crypto. I'm positive the Solana coins will still remain active for a few years and will regain at least what I paid for it + the transaction fees.
Then I'll sell it, take my money and stick with the index funds in my non tax free savings account.
The bitcoin ETFs are there to stay. There's enthusiasm for this kind of stuff. I still have no idea what Bitcoin is suppose to provide that regular money can not (it's not even anonymous, nor safe), but I believe it will regain a lot of value and the ETFs will rise. It's a risky financial product because the underlying asset is essentially based on wind. But the payoff can be great and Bitcoin will be the last to fall, imho.