Former CIA and NSA employee source of intelligence leaks

[Valmy]

Yeah it is a strange world when that is not a lie.  But granted Washington DC is a pretty strange world.

[sbr]

I haven't been following this closely, and maybe this has already been addressed, but is the government collecting data (allegedly) or have they just given themselves unlimited access to the data collected by others?

[Iormlund]

I think there are times when members of the Executive should in fact hide things, and even outright lie.

So what?

How can you argeu that Congress is not effectively overseeing these things?

...

[crazy canuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwiUVUJmGjs

His very first answer is a lie. And it goes from there.

Everything he says seems right. As I say, maybe economical with the truth, but he's not lying.

does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?

No, Sir.

Oh yeah, he's being economical with the truth, that's for sure.

That is not even close to what the first question and answer was.

The first question was related to how much evidence is required before the movements of American citizens are tracked within the US.

The answer was there are strictures regarding such things.

In fact that answer is entirely correct.

[The Minsky Moment]

I haven't been following this closely, and maybe this has already been addressed, but is the government collecting data (allegedly) or have they just given themselves unlimited access to the data collected by others?

Neither exactly.
The phone companies collect and record the data.
The NSA then orders the phone companies to transmit the data which is stored on a government controlled server.  But there is no access at that time.  It's just a straight copy job.
Access to the data is governed by the FISA process and requires particularized requests.  But there may be hundreds or even thousands of those requests each year.

[KRonn]

The guy in charge of intelligence, obfuscating and evading questions in a public forum? Say it isn't to!

Yep. It's his job to be economical with the truth, especially in a public forum.

Today there seems to be a lot more doubt about this story as presented and Snowden. It looks like the Guardian may have fucked up a good story with bad reporting, which given Glenn Greenwald's record of overstating his case, noone could've predicted. We'll see.

You guys are being too easy on him. Congress is checking into what he said, not taking it too lightly. He wasn't being asked to give the store away, just being asked questions that apparently Congress already knew the answers to but he had to weasel his answers. If it was that important he could have said it was a National Security issue and that he'd answer in closed session.

[KRonn]

I don't always favor the ACLU but I'm glad they're filing a lawsuit. Get this checked and vetted by the courts and by public opinion.  Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, one of the authors of the Patriot Act,  is denouncing what is being done now as a dangerous overreach never intended. We'll see if he's right or being hyperbolic. Also, during the last few years there has reportedly been an increase in Fiser requests a thousand fold.  I'm not entirely against the Patriot Act and new laws were needed to address newer technology, but I'm wary of what is being done so as I said, I'm glad that this is being debated more seriously.

[garbon]

It's not that complicated.  One can think that the government may be acting reasonably and yet still welcome a lawsuit that will rigorously test that assumption.  It also can only be a good thing to have a properly constitued and independent Article III court review procedures and actions that to date have only been passed on by a limited, Article I tribunal whose track record raises questions.

One can trust, and yet still want to verify. 

Well then there is no material difference between those who trust and those who do not.  All I want is a debate and discussion on these policies and lawsuits are key to that.  So there is no debate, these leaks are good because they spawned the lawsuits everybody wants.

Wasn't trust but verify what Reagan liked to say?

[Valmy]

Wasn't trust but verify what Reagan liked to say?

That is a Russian proverb he would quote when talking to the Soviets.

[garbon]

Wasn't trust but verify what Reagan liked to say?

That is a Russian proverb he would quote when talking to the Soviets.

Yes, so then not a strange position to take.

[Viking]

Wasn't trust but verify what Reagan liked to say?

That is a Russian proverb he would quote when talking to the Soviets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZt-S9nwp8c

what he meant was, he didn't trust the soviets.

[garbon]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-fears-edward-snowden-may-173428026.html

U.S. Fears Edward Snowden May Defect to China: Sources

U.S. intelligence officials on the trail of rogue contractor Edward Snowden are now treating the National Security Agency leak case as a possible foreign espionage matter, raising fears that the 29-year-old computer whiz may be attempting to defect to China with a trove of America's most sensitive secrets, according to three U.S. officials.

"I think there is a real concern about that," a senior official familiar with the case told ABC News on Thursday. Another law enforcement official said it was a "very legitimate" worry.

In an interview Wednesday with Hong Kong's South China Morning Post, Snowden said his country "had been hacking into computers in Hong Kong and [in China] for years."

Those remarks alarmed intelligence officials, who considered those statements as much of a betrayal as his alleged leaking of highly classified files on the NSA's vast surveillance program to two newspapers last week, the senior official said.

Investigators are scrambling to piece together what may have been swiped by Snowden, who said he was in contact with two reporters to whom he eventually leaked Top Secret files before he took a $122,000 a year job as an NSA contractor with technology consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton in Hawaii last March.

[Sheilbh]

Of course they've been hacking Hong Kong. What the fuck are the NSA for if they're not listening into China?

He was outraged when he was working for the CIA, because they wanted access to some banking details. They got friendly with a banker, got him drunk and then encouraged him to drive home. The CIA offered him some help, if he'd help them.

I don't understand how a spy can be so fundamentally upset to discover that the agency he's working for spies

On the other hand whether he defects or not the Chinese should be getting everything they can out of him right now. Just as I'd hope the US would if a Chinese spy turned up in the Bahamas.

[The Minsky Moment]

Apparently, Snowden thinks that everyone's affairs are sacrosanct, except those of his employer. 

[DGuller]

Apparently, Snowden thinks that everyone's affairs are sacrosanct, except those of his employer.

That has to be some seriously weak argument.  It's probably safely in the Top 10 of the weakest arguments ever uttered on Languish.