Turkish police use tear gas, injure dozens in break up of protests

Started by Syt, June 01, 2013, 01:43:40 AM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 ... 14 15 16 17 18 19
User actions

Queequeg

#255
June 18, 2013, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 17, 2013, 01:44:16 PM
Pilsudski's Poland was extremely multiethnic, and Pilsudski was a-okay with that. Ataturk exiled the only ethnicities in Turkey with decent literacy rates or commercial skills, and then proceeded to attempt to eradicate all "foreign" influence from the country, including such a rapid, complete reformation of the language that most Turks barely understand his early speeches, and the violent repression of the only substantial minority left. Mussolini works.
If you mean the Greeks, then their removal was a good thing.  You can't pretend like it was possible for Western Anatolia to be some kind of multi-ethnic paradise, what with the Megali Idea and all that.
Both nations were exhausted, and Greece has effectively protected the Muslim population in Thrace, while Inonu and Ataturk presided over constant persecution of the remaining Greek population of Istanbul.  Also, the Armenians were effectively without a state after the Russian Revolution, and their expulsion from historical Armenia only accomplished the total impoverishment of Eastern Anatolia. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Queequeg

#256
June 18, 2013, 12:47:40 PM
Also, the Karamanlis were Tucophone, and the Pontic Greeks had had no connection to mainland Greece since the time the Turks were found only in Western Mongolia. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Neil

#257
June 18, 2013, 01:16:06 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 18, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 17, 2013, 01:44:16 PM
Pilsudski's Poland was extremely multiethnic, and Pilsudski was a-okay with that. Ataturk exiled the only ethnicities in Turkey with decent literacy rates or commercial skills, and then proceeded to attempt to eradicate all "foreign" influence from the country, including such a rapid, complete reformation of the language that most Turks barely understand his early speeches, and the violent repression of the only substantial minority left. Mussolini works.
If you mean the Greeks, then their removal was a good thing.  You can't pretend like it was possible for Western Anatolia to be some kind of multi-ethnic paradise, what with the Megali Idea and all that.
Both nations were exhausted, and Greece has effectively protected the Muslim population in Thrace, while Inonu and Ataturk presided over constant persecution of the remaining Greek population of Istanbul.  Also, the Armenians were effectively without a state after the Russian Revolution, and their expulsion from historical Armenia only accomplished the total impoverishment of Eastern Anatolia.
But it did maintain the territorial integrity of Turkey, which was a valuable goal for the Turkish government.  Better to fight them now and solve the problem than to leave it lingering throughout the age of nationalism.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

The Minsky Moment

#258
June 18, 2013, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 17, 2013, 01:44:16 PM
Pilsudski's Poland was extremely multiethnic, and Pilsudski was a-okay with that. Ataturk exiled the only ethnicities in Turkey with decent literacy rates or commercial skills, and then proceeded to attempt to eradicate all "foreign" influence from the country, including such a rapid, complete reformation of the language that most Turks barely understand his early speeches, and the violent repression of the only substantial minority left.

Pilsudski tolerated other ethnicities and religions only to the extent they maintained absolute loyalty to the Polish state.  As most of the Polish minorities chose not to test him, we can only speculate what would have happened otherwise, but I would expect a less than relaxed response.  Accusing Kemal of attempting to eradicate "foreign" influence is also very odd given his strong Europeanizing tendencies.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Queequeg

#259
June 18, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 01:52:55 PM

Pilsudski tolerated other ethnicities and religions only to the extent they maintained absolute loyalty to the Polish state.  As most of the Polish minorities chose not to test him, we can only speculate what would have happened otherwise, but I would expect a less than relaxed response.  Accusing Kemal of attempting to eradicate "foreign" influence is also very odd given his strong Europeanizing tendencies.
"Persian", "Greek", "Armenian", and "Arab" influence then.  He butchered the language and helped feed a lot of bizarre, Yule Society-ish nationalist pseduo-scholarship that is still surprisingly popular there.  Look up "Sun language theory." 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

The Minsky Moment

#260
June 18, 2013, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
He butchered the language and helped feed a lot of bizarre, Yule Society-ish nationalist pseduo-scholarship that is still surprisingly popular there.

He truly is worse than Stalin after all!
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

garbon

#261
June 18, 2013, 06:27:08 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
He butchered the language and helped feed a lot of bizarre, Yule Society-ish nationalist pseduo-scholarship that is still surprisingly popular there.

He truly is worse than Stalin after all!

:D
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Queequeg

#262
June 18, 2013, 06:47:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
He butchered the language and helped feed a lot of bizarre, Yule Society-ish nationalist pseduo-scholarship that is still surprisingly popular there.

He truly is worse than Stalin after all!
:D
You don't have to spend hundreds of hours studying it.  It's butchered and hideous. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Razgovory

#263
June 18, 2013, 07:30:41 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 06:47:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
He butchered the language and helped feed a lot of bizarre, Yule Society-ish nationalist pseduo-scholarship that is still surprisingly popular there.

He truly is worse than Stalin after all!
:D
You don't have to spend hundreds of hours studying it.  It's butchered and hideous.

http://www.amazon.com/Marxism-Problems-Linguistics-Joseph-Stalin/dp/1434463761  There appears to be some similarities here...
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Queequeg

#264
June 18, 2013, 07:36:47 PM
New Turk speak doubleplusgood.
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Queequeg

#265
June 19, 2013, 12:50:57 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 18, 2013, 06:23:57 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 18, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
He butchered the language and helped feed a lot of bizarre, Yule Society-ish nationalist pseduo-scholarship that is still surprisingly popular there.

He truly is worse than Stalin after all!
I'm comparing him to Chiang Kai-Shek.  Considering that until recently Turks were thrown in jail for not comparing him to Jesus, it's a real insult. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Neil

#266
June 19, 2013, 10:45:13 AM
National heroes can be funny things.  Languishites used to get real worked up when you belittled Washington, for example.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Liep

#267
June 23, 2013, 05:28:14 AM
Two Danish MEPs got tear gased and water canoned on the Taksim square. They had been out eating at a restaurant and then later got cornered up with a tough and violent group of elderly and children while walking to their hotel. This could, of course, not be tolerated by the Turkish Police who responded with an appropriate use of force to scatter the troublesome elements.
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Ed Anger

#268
June 23, 2013, 07:39:25 AM
Danes gassed? Go PM Whatsyourname!
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Admiral Yi

#269
June 23, 2013, 01:52:50 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 19, 2013, 12:50:57 AM
I'm comparing him to Chiang Kai-Shek.  Considering that until recently Turks were thrown in jail for not comparing him to Jesus, it's a real insult.

???

That's what the charges read?  "Did not compare Ataturk to Jesus?"
Print
Go Up Pages 1 ... 14 15 16 17 18 19
User actions