Sci-fi/Fantasy recommendations

[Neil]

I cheered for the slaughter of the anti-war protesters.  And that little girl had it coming.  I don't take issue with this Richard guy's actions, just the odd way in which they are written.

That's because you felt your thing had come awake rise up.

[Ideologue]

Those are some fantastically bad passages.  Korea loved those shitty books.

[grumbler]

On another note, I picked up Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon. Again. And actually got through it this time. It is actually really quite good, once you get into it. I am looking forward to some more.

Again, an author with some obvious weaknesses in his writing, but the things he does well make the story compelling.

I couldn't get into his story because I didn't think the characters were very compelling, but at least his plot seemed to be going somewhere.  Maybe not ten novels' worth, but I liked the fact that the story seemed to have a past and future and didn't feel like it started when the reader opened the book.

[Maximus]

]

On another note, I picked up Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon. Again. And actually got through it this time. It is actually really quite good, once you get into it. I am looking forward to some more.

Again, an author with some obvious weaknesses in his writing, but the things he does well make the story compelling.

I've tried to get through it twice and failed. Sell me on it.

Gardens of the Moon and the first 5-6 books of that series each start really slow, but once you get into them can be entertaining. However somewhere mid-series he switches his genre from high fantasy to horror. Sure high fantasy always has a horror element, but it eventually becomes all horror all the the time. I think I stopped reading for good about book 8.

If you like both high fantasy and horror it might be your thing.

[Admiral Yi]

What is "high" fantasy?

[Ideologue]

I always conceived it as fantasy where everything is made the fuck up.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I believe it is 'epic' Tolkienesque stuff. Or maybe even The Dark Tower.  Endless Quest kind of stuff. Could be wrong though.

[katmai]

I don't know who locked this or why.

Yeah, I was confused about that too.

I think I did accidentally with hands like shovels and an iPhone

I've locked so many threads trying to read languish on iPhone

[Maximus]

What is "high" fantasy?

From wiki:

High fantasy is defined as fantasy fiction set in an alternative, entirely fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the real, or "primary" world. The secondary world is usually internally consistent but its rules differ in some way(s) from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary, or "real" world, or a rational and familiar fictional world, with the inclusion of magical elements.

[Ideologue]

So, essentially, I was correct.

[The Brain]

So, essentially, I was correct.

/Hitler

[Agelastus]

Gardens of the Moon and the first 5-6 books of that series each start really slow, but once you get into them can be entertaining. However somewhere mid-series he switches his genre from high fantasy to horror. Sure high fantasy always has a horror element, but it eventually becomes all horror all the the time. I think I stopped reading for good about book 8.

If you like both high fantasy and horror it might be your thing.

"Horror"? Well, I suppose you could argue that that's the case; I wouldn't, personally.

However, there's nothing fundamentally different about the later books given that you've got Undead from the get-go in book 1 and headless undead slave rower corpses (with the heads still aware) in book 2.

And if you stopped at book 8 you missed a treat; books 9 and 10 are the best of the series and provide a really satisfying climax.

-----------------------

I'm fairly sure I've recommended Erikson before. There are parts of the series that drag or are otherwise hard-to-read. "Gardens of the Moon", for example, is a hard read for the first couple of hundred pages; partly, I think, because there is so much history to his world. You get the sense that so much of the story has already happened when you start and you feel a little lost. There's always a decent narrative though, and a sense of depth, of deep scheming by powers that the characters (and you as the reader) don't completely understand until the moment of denouement of the various plots. And most things do get explained eventually (some don't, but that's partly because it's a shared world; Ian C Esslemont hasn't finished his six books which, although they're not neccessary to the main storyline, do clarify some issues.)

And then there's the slight issue of the different focuses of the books which lead to some odd things. "House of Chains", the fourth book which brings together threads from the first three books chronologically begins before any of the events of the first three books. Then the fifth book (the one I had trouble getting into) jumps sideways again with a plot that's completely unrelated to the first four books - but which is important since much of the action of books 6,7,9 and 10, as things come together and the threads merge into a single storyline, is a result of the events of book 5.

Erikson is a capable plotter and a reasonable writer but where he really shines is with his characters and with his consistent pairing of triumph and tragedy. The victories his characters win are significant, but they're never easy and they're never without a cost.

The world he and Esslemont have created is complex, with non-human and pre-human races having a history a couple of hundred thousand years deep. Events of the past matter, and carry echoes into the present day. Ancient betrayals resonate (partly because some of the characters were said betrayers or betrayees - there's a few effective immortals around.) The magical system is interesting; what the settings' Mages draw power from are both power sources and worlds of their own. When we, the reader, realise what the "Imperial Warren" actually is it forms a particularly telling moment showing how the triumphs of the present of this world are built on the bones and tragedies of its past.

And, as I said above, everything has its price; there's no "free lunch" in Erikson's and Esslemont's world. Which given the nature of much "high fantasy" is a refreshing change. But it's not, to quote another modernism, "Grimdark" for the sake of "Grimdark"; most things are as they are for good reason.

If you can get by "Gardens of the Moon" you're then treated to two of the best books of the series "Deadhouse Gates" and my personal favourite "Memories of Ice". After which there's no turning back.

Well, unless you're Maximus, of course.

[Scipio]

I continue to unreservedly recommend Gene Wolfe and Iain M. Banks. Also, Frank Herbert's BuSab novels are great stuff.

Roger Zelazny's writing is pure gold, even the later stuff. The Amber novels are tops, although Lord of Light is unique.

Jim Butcher is really fake sci-fi/fantasy, but he sort of embodies the Iowa Writer's Workshop school of writing in its purest form.

Anything by Neal Stephenson after The Big U and Zodiac is worth reading.

[PDH]

...the fit hit the Shan

[garbon]

...the fit hit the Shan

Was this for the colonoscopy thread?