Spain's $680 Million submarine can only dive, not resurface

[Syt]

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/spain-submarine-s-81-isaac-peral-cant-float_n_3328683.html

Spain's S-81 Isaac Peral Submarine Cost $680 Million To Build... And Can't Float

As Spain seeks to rein in ballooning deficits, it has discovered some of its bloat surfacing from an unexpected place: under the sea.

According to El Pais, the S-81 Isaac Peral -- the first of four state-of-the-art new submarines commissioned for the Spanish Navy -- is 75 to 100 tons overweight. That may not seem like a lot, considering the submarine's full weight when submerged is 2,430 tons, but according to engineers at Navantia, the Spanish shipbuilding company responsible for its design, that excess bulk is enough to prevent the Isaac Peral from successfully resurfacing once submerged.

Unfortunately for the Spainards, Quartz reports that they have already sunk the equivalent of $680 million into the Isaac Peral, and a total of $3 billion into the entire quartet of S-80 class submarines.

The descent has been precipitous for the S-80 subs, which some had hailed as the most modern non-nuclear submarines in the world. Among the S-80's celebrated advancement is a diesel-electric propulsion engine that, ironically, promises to be 20% lighter than comparable systems while delivering 50% more power. The submarines' technical specifications, along with a computer-generated image of what one will look like, can be found here.

If Spain hopes to salvage its submarines, it must either find some weight that can be trimmed from the current design or lengthen the ship to accomodate the excess weight, The Local notes. Though the latter option is more feasible, it is expected to cost Spain an extra $9.7 million per meter.

The submarine setback couldn't have come at a worse time for Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, who is embroiled in a corruption scandal and saw his approval rating hit a record low in 2013, Reuters reports. According to RT, Rajoy's austerity cuts trimmed the Spanish military budget by 30 percent in 2012, leaving much less room for added ballast. With Quartz reporting that the S-80 program will be delayed an estimated two years and another general election looming in 2015, Rajoy likely will not see the submarines through to fruition.

Spain's opposition United Left party pounced on the opportunity to criticize the current administration. According to EFE, United Left deputy Gaspar Llamazares quoted a famous monologue by Spanish comedian Miguel Gila in a formal question submitted to the Bureau of the Congress of Deputies, asking if the S-80 submarine was "well-colored but did not float." While the humor may be lost in translation, the jest was taken seriously by the Bureau, which scolded Llamazares for his mocking tone.

How did such an expensive project get funded while, as El Mundo notes, the Spanish military's entire special weapons program received a 98% cut? Sheer pride seems to have been a factor: according to Harvard Magazine, the Isaac Peral is named for the Spanish inventor said to have built the first functional modern submarine, and as El Pais explains, Spain hoped the S-80 class would be a new homegrown breakthrough achieved without foreign help.

Now that Navantia is considering bringing in an American contractor to help with the redesign, that dream seems dead in the water.

Next time, just buy German subs. The Israelis love'em.

[Zanza]

The current German submarine design is a third smaller than this boat though. I doubt it would fit the Spanish specifications. Spain has much more blue water coastlines than Germany.

[CountDeMoney]

Next time, just buy German subs.

Bill Parcells is never wrong:  do what you do.

[Duque de Bragança]

Next time, just buy German subs. The Israelis love'em.

The taxpayers in Portugal and Greece (ahem) much less though since Ferrostaal also sells overpriced crap as well

[Zanza]

Next time, just buy German subs. The Israelis love'em.

The taxpayers in Portugal and Greece (ahem) much less though since Ferrostaal also sells overpriced crap as well

Takes two for bribery...

And the U214 class can dive and resurface, so it is at least better value than the S-80.

[Darth Wagtaros]

The current German submarine design is a third smaller than this boat though. I doubt it would fit the Spanish specifications. Spain has much more blue water coastlines than Germany.

So? Is the government going to surround the coast with an undersea wall of graft?

[Viking]

The current German submarine design is a third smaller than this boat though. I doubt it would fit the Spanish specifications. Spain has much more blue water coastlines than Germany.

Germans are good at building subs and effectively have set the nato standard for diesel subs since the USN And RN keep building nuclear subs.

[Barrister]

Whatever you do, don't but British submarines though.

[Duque de Bragança]

Next time, just buy German subs. The Israelis love'em.

The taxpayers in Portugal and Greece (ahem) much less though since Ferrostaal also sells overpriced crap as well

Takes two for bribery...

And the U214 class can dive and resurface, so it is at least better value than the S-80.

I didn't know the Portuguese and Greek taxpayers were bribed 
As for diving and resurfacing

Greece Refuses Delivery Of First Type-214 Submarine

By AMI INTERNATIONAL INC.

The Greek Ministry of Defense and Hellenic Navy have refused to accept the first Katsonis-class (Type 214) submarine being built by Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft (HDW) in Germany, citing a variety of concerns. Sources indicate that the Hellenic Navy has identified the following as among the continuing problems with the submarine, dubbed Papanikolis:

The submarine is reportedly highly unstable while surfaced;
The air-independent propulsion system has lower output power than specified; the unit must be shut down after several hours of sailing due to higher than normal operating temperatures;
Increased propeller cavitations;
Attack periscope vibrates at speeds greater than 3 knots;
Seawater leakage into hydraulic systems;
Problems with the proper function of the flank arrays.
Hellenic Navy sources indicate that the sea service will not accept delivery until, at a minimum, the stability problem is resolved. The delivery of unit one is now more than 18 months behind schedule and the second unit, being built at Greece's Hellenic Shipyards, which was acquired by HDW in 2001, is expected to be launched by the end of the year. Four Katsonis-class submarines in all have been ordered, with all but the first being built at Hellenic Shipyards.

http://www.navyleague.org/sea_power/dec06-52.php

At least, Greece with its current economic troubles will be saved from these submarines but not Portugal

http://duartelevy.eu/?p=2308

"O Tridente revelou instabilidade ao navegar em superfície e em certas condições de mar," disse aquele responsável, acrescentando que, tal como acontecera com o HS Papanikolis – cuja entrega está atrasada de mais de quatro anos -, "existem dificuldades na integração dos sistemas de gestão de combate" do submarino português e mesmo com o sistema de ar condicionado.
Um relatório a que o 24horas teve acesso, dá igualmente conta de uma situação onde o submarino e a tripulação estiveram em perigo durante um teste ao largo da Alemanha. Segundo o documento, o responsável pelo teste não chegou a enviar um SOS mas "pouco faltou", como nos foi confirmado.
O problema mais grave que foi detectado no "HS Tridente" durante a fase de teste – e que ainda não esta completamente resolvido – "prende-se com o sistema AIP de células de combustível".
Uma questão delicada para o consórcio alemão e para as autoridades portuguesas porque terá sido este sistema o argumento avançado para afastar a proposta francesa: o submarino francês, era superior ao alemão, mas o sistema utilizado pelos franceses – MESMA, Módulo de Energia submarina autónoma – não era considerado o melhor. O "HS Tridente" vem assim equipado com o sistema de células de combustível, enquanto os franceses propunham um sistema de turbina em circuito.
O 24horas tentou obter um comentário junto do Estado-Maior da Armada mas, até ao momento, a única resposta obtida é de que "a Marinha só receberá o submarino quando este passar com sucesso todos testes de mar", alguns dos quais se devem desenrolar ao largo das costas portuguesas.

Executive summary

- unstable when surfaced and/or certain sea conditions (as reported by the Greeks)
- unreliable fuel cell system (unlike the competition)
- combat system integration
- even the air conditioning

Almost sent an SOS during a test in Germany 

[Zanza]

I didn't know the Portuguese and Greek taxpayers were bribed 

Their democratically elected government officials were bribed, which at least in Greece was probably easy and expected due to the widespread culture of bribery. 

As for diving and resurfacing

The Greek boat made in Germany is operational and so are the two Portuguese ones and the three Korean ones. Seems to be a better design than the S-80 at least. Might have had its problems at first, but what new military equipment doesn't? They fixed it.

Greece Refuses Delivery Of First Type-214 Submarine

To renegotiate the price. But they want a total of six of these now - too bad they can't actually pay for them.

[The Brain]

Swedish subs are best subs.

[mongers]

Needs an on-board QE unit to keep it afloat.

[Viking]

Swedish subs are best subs.

Paradox Tool

[mongers]

Swedish subs are best subs.

No Norwegian:

[fhdz]

The Polish ones have very nice screen doors.