Pope Francis says atheists can be good

[Malthus]

Heh, in Judaism, it is explicit - there is no religious benefit to being a Jew. Anyone who follows the "Noahide laws" (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) is just as righteous as the most righteous Jew - according to Judaism. Thus, being a Jew conveys no religious benefit whatsoever, in the Christian sense.   

The Jewish god is the kind of god whose rewards consist of leaving you alone... unless you are too virtuous, in which case he fucks with you on a bet. 

Hey, at least that's the kind of god that's somewhat believeable, based on observed reality. The all-powerful, all-compassionate kind never made any sense* - I mean, looking around. 

It has never surprised me that so many people raised in the Jewish tradition had a bent for law-talking.

Jewish tradition basically consists of law-talking (that is, the Talmud). 


*Assuming of course any god does.

[Darth Wagtaros]

The clearly ongoing drift of Martinus from outspoken anti-clergy to devout Catholic is in fact a fascinating process to witness in such detail.

Like watching the Anti-Fahdiz?

[DGuller]

At this point one must wonder, if Atheists get to go to heaven, what point there is, if any, to having a catholic church?

Heh, in Judaism, it is explicit - there is no religious benefit to being a Jew. Anyone who follows the "Noahide laws" (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) is just as righteous as the most righteous Jew - according to Judaism. Thus, being a Jew conveys no religious benefit whatsoever, in the Christian sense. 

How's that working out?

[Malthus]

At this point one must wonder, if Atheists get to go to heaven, what point there is, if any, to having a catholic church?

Heh, in Judaism, it is explicit - there is no religious benefit to being a Jew. Anyone who follows the "Noahide laws" (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) is just as righteous as the most righteous Jew - according to Judaism. Thus, being a Jew conveys no religious benefit whatsoever, in the Christian sense. 

How's that working out?

For some strange reason actively recruiting converts by promising people eternal life if they join your religion (and eternal damnation if they don't) is, apparently, a more successful strategy than actively discouraging converts and saying that being a part of your religion makes no particular difference. 

Who would have thought it?

On the other hand, given that both Christianity and Islam are, essentially, heritical offshoots of Judaism, it is sometimes amazing to me the influence that this god of a second-rate Iron Age kingdom, quite unremarkable in its own day (and comprehensively flattened by the Romans, who trashed their temple), has had. It is like looking three thousand years into the future and finding out that half of the entire world considers New Jersey the holy land, and fight over access to Newark. 

[Caliga]

On the other hand, given that both Christianity and Islam are, essentially, heritical offshoots of Judaism, it is sometimes amazing to me the influence that this god of a second-rate Iron Age kingdom, quite unremarkable in its own day (and comprehensively flattened by the Romans, who trashed their temple), has had. It is like looking three thousand years into the future and finding out that half of the entire world considers New Jersey the holy land, and fight over access to Newark. 

Sopranotology

"In da name of Tony Christ, peace be wit chew."

[CountDeMoney]

"You're not gonna believe this. The guy killed 16 Czechoslovakians. He was an interior decorator."

[garbon]

On the other hand, given that both Christianity and Islam are, essentially, heritical offshoots of Judaism, it is sometimes amazing to me the influence that this god of a second-rate Iron Age kingdom, quite unremarkable in its own day (and comprehensively flattened by the Romans, who trashed their temple), has had. It is like looking three thousand years into the future and finding out that half of the entire world considers New Jersey the holy land, and fight over access to Newark. 

Only if one is taking the view that they are all worshiping the same immutable God. I think that's a stretch given the change in attitudes/opinions/perceptions/conceptualizations about god over that 3000 year period.

[PDH]

The Jewish God sure has run a successful regional franchise operation.

[Malthus]

On the other hand, given that both Christianity and Islam are, essentially, heritical offshoots of Judaism, it is sometimes amazing to me the influence that this god of a second-rate Iron Age kingdom, quite unremarkable in its own day (and comprehensively flattened by the Romans, who trashed their temple), has had. It is like looking three thousand years into the future and finding out that half of the entire world considers New Jersey the holy land, and fight over access to Newark. 

Only if one is taking the view that they are all worshiping the same immutable God. I think that's a stretch given the change in attitudes/opinions/perceptions/conceptualizations about god over that 3000 year period.

Nope. It is simple fact. No matter what Christians and Muslims think of their version of god, they both acknowledge that their religions derived, historically, from Judaism - as do historians. Of course, they each believe that they received subsequent revelations that supercede Judaism, but it isn't like Muslims and Christians think (or historians think) that these religions did not derive from the Jewish notions of religion. 

[Valmy]

Only if one is taking the view that they are all worshiping the same immutable God. I think that's a stretch given the change in attitudes/opinions/perceptions/conceptualizations about god over that 3000 year period.

I do not think this is required or relevent at all to what he is saying.  Both Christians and Muslims claim to be worshipping the same god and that is his point.  But you could just easily say different sorts of Jews are not worshipping the same god because their interpretations are so different so therefore they are not the same religion...but that would be silly yes?

[Valmy]

The Jewish God sure has run a successful regional franchise operation.

Some adjustments had to be made to make them viable for the Arab and Roman markets.

[Viking]

The Jewish God sure has run a successful regional franchise operation.

Some adjustments had to be made to make them viable for the Arab and Roman markets.

McTransubstantiation?

[Viking]

At this point one must wonder, if Atheists get to go to heaven, what point there is, if any, to having a catholic church?

People like you make me want to stop being an Atheist.

Because you want the certainty that you are going to hell?

[Malthus]

Only if one is taking the view that they are all worshiping the same immutable God. I think that's a stretch given the change in attitudes/opinions/perceptions/conceptualizations about god over that 3000 year period.

I do not think this is required or relevent at all to what he is saying.  Both Christians and Muslims claim to be worshipping the same god and that is his point.  But you could just easily say different sorts of Jews are not worshipping the same god because their interpretations are so different so therefore they are not the same religion...but that would be silly yes?

To add to this point (and here is something many Christians do not know, apparently) ... the religion we know of today as "Judaism" probably bears only a slight resemblence to the Judaism of the age of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel. Large parts of the OT are devoted to a priestly religion centred on a single Temple, which now no longer exists.

The Judaism of today is much more based on the Talmud, which contains the "oral traditions" considered of equal value to the written laws contained in the OT - and which developed after the destruction of the Temple. "Judaism" in the modern sense is as much an offshoot of "Judaism" of OT times as Christianity or Islam! Of course it is closer to the original concept than they, but it is still a variant.

[Viking]

You really have to consider Rabbinical Judaism and Temple Judaism as different religions. They have very little to do with each other.