Nigeria is slowly spiraling into civil war

[garbon]

How many marines are sufficient? I'm not sure why you'd use casual pictures of marines partying as proof that the respective ambassadors are safe.

I don't know.

What I do know is that when I comment that ambassadors shouldn't be in dangerous locations without security such as marines, you really don't make me look foolish by wondering whether I would want to pull ambassadors out of countries x, y, and z when either marines are there or we already pulled out.

Which countries did we pull out? I'd quickly looked and I believe we have ambassadors for the 3 countries I mentioned.  Oh and really, so a picture of 3 marines partying is sufficient to count for sending ambassadors to a dangerous location with adequate security?

Not to mention that a few marines would probably not have changed Benghazi.

[alfred russel]

Which countries did we pull out? I'd quickly looked and I believe we have ambassadors for the 3 countries I mentioned.  Oh and really, so a picture of 3 marines partying is sufficient to count for sending ambassadors to a dangerous location with adequate security?

Sudan.

Here is a speech referencing a US marine detachment at the consulate in Lagos.

http://nigeria.usembassy.gov/sp_11112006a.html

So it isn't just 3 guys partying.

[garbon]

Which countries did we pull out? I'd quickly looked and I believe we have ambassadors for the 3 countries I mentioned.  Oh and really, so a picture of 3 marines partying is sufficient to count for sending ambassadors to a dangerous location with adequate security?

Sudan.

Here is a speech referencing a US marine detachment at the consulate in Lagos.

http://nigeria.usembassy.gov/sp_11112006a.html

So it isn't just 3 guys partying.

Odd because we list us having an ambassador in South Sudan.

http://southsudan.usembassy.gov/amb-designate.html

Hmm, between your article (with 149 per 1200 embassies) and this blog - it doesn't seem that much more.

http://davetolagos.blogspot.com/2008/11/marine-corps-birthday-ball.html  (approx 8 in both sources)

So is your assertion that if we'd had 8 marines in Libya that we'd then consider that adequate security?

[garbon]

And I don't mean anything personal by all this - just sort of seemed in that other thread that you were talking out of your ass regarding marine protection. Particularly vs. the size force that attacked our embassy in Benghazi.

[CountDeMoney]

I bet Christian Okoye would not turn the other cheeck.  He would run right over Boko Haram.

And promptly fumble inside the 5 yard line.  Twice.

[derspiess]

And I don't mean anything personal by all this - just sort of seemed in that other thread that you were talking out of your ass regarding marine protection. Particularly vs. the size force that attacked our embassy in Benghazi.

I think you've made it clear that it is not wise for one to cross your St. Hillary tripwire.

[sbr]

Boko could hire Steve Atwater as security, that would stop okoye in his tracks.

[alfred russel]

Which countries did we pull out? I'd quickly looked and I believe we have ambassadors for the 3 countries I mentioned.  Oh and really, so a picture of 3 marines partying is sufficient to count for sending ambassadors to a dangerous location with adequate security?

Sudan.

Here is a speech referencing a US marine detachment at the consulate in Lagos.

http://nigeria.usembassy.gov/sp_11112006a.html

So it isn't just 3 guys partying.

Odd because we list us having an ambassador in South Sudan.

http://southsudan.usembassy.gov/amb-designate.html

Hmm, between your article (with 149 per 1200 embassies) and this blog - it doesn't seem that much more.

http://davetolagos.blogspot.com/2008/11/marine-corps-birthday-ball.html  (approx 8 in both sources)

So is your assertion that if we'd had 8 marines in Libya that we'd then consider that adequate security?

South Sudan is a different country than Sudan.

I don't know how many marines it would take to have stabilized things in Libya. I wouldn't be suprised if 8 could have done it though (they weren't exactly up against a highly trained first world force). But anyway, the fact that there are 8 marines at some country other than Libya doesn't mean that only 8 are needed in Libya.

[alfred russel]

And I don't mean anything personal by all this - just sort of seemed in that other thread that you were talking out of your ass regarding marine protection. Particularly vs. the size force that attacked our embassy in Benghazi.

Who could imagine that traveling to post revolutionary Libya without significant protection isn't safe? Especially if you are a high ranking US official.

[alfred russel]

And I don't mean anything personal by all this - just sort of seemed in that other thread that you were talking out of your ass regarding marine protection. Particularly vs. the size force that attacked our embassy in Benghazi.

I think you've made it clear that it is not wise for one to cross your St. Hillary tripwire.

No kidding. I don't even blame Hillary at all--I doubt the secretary of state has much to do with arranging security around the world. But he wants to put himself in a corner arguing that there was adequate security for the first ambassador killed probably in garbon's lifetime when traveling in a highly unstable post revolutionary country with local guards.

[garbon]

And I don't mean anything personal by all this - just sort of seemed in that other thread that you were talking out of your ass regarding marine protection. Particularly vs. the size force that attacked our embassy in Benghazi.

I think you've made it clear that it is not wise for one to cross your St. Hillary tripwire.

My comments have nothing to do with Hillary and her role in this.

It has to do with AR acting as though he know what should constitute adequate security in Benghazi with the implicit assumption that the US should put whatever size force is necessary to keep everyone safe which would mean a massive amount of troops given the number of attackers!

[garbon]

South Sudan is a different country than Sudan.

Golly, gee. Perhaps we should revisit what I'd said:

Sheilbh, regardless of where personnel protection falls on the list of Marine priorities, if they are securing a facility the occupants are also being protected.

Anyway, putting high value targets in unstable countries with some virulent anti American/western attitudes is just going to get them killed if you don't have adequate security. I frankly don't see why having an ambassador is critical to CIA operations or why we should be so concerned with Libya at all.

Should we remove our ambassadors from Mali and South Sudan given their general state of disarray?

I don't know how many marines it would take to have stabilized things in Libya. I wouldn't be suprised if 8 could have done it though (they weren't exactly up against a highly trained first world force). But anyway, the fact that there are 8 marines at some country other than Libya doesn't mean that only 8 are needed in Libya.

Ah gotcha. Well I don't think we have much to talk about if you think that 8 Marines at the embassy would have averted the issue.

[11B4V]

South Sudan is a different country than Sudan.

Golly, gee. Perhaps we should revisit what I'd said:

Sheilbh, regardless of where personnel protection falls on the list of Marine priorities, if they are securing a facility the occupants are also being protected.

Anyway, putting high value targets in unstable countries with some virulent anti American/western attitudes is just going to get them killed if you don't have adequate security. I frankly don't see why having an ambassador is critical to CIA operations or why we should be so concerned with Libya at all.

Should we remove our ambassadors from Mali and South Sudan given their general state of disarray?

I don't know how many marines it would take to have stabilized things in Libya. I wouldn't be suprised if 8 could have done it though (they weren't exactly up against a highly trained first world force). But anyway, the fact that there are 8 marines at some country other than Libya doesn't mean that only 8 are needed in Libya.

Ah gotcha. Well I don't think we have much to talk about if you think that 8 Marines at the embassy would have averted the issue.

Strange, I didnt take his statement as such.

[derspiess]

Some of you guys keep acting as if the attackers were a brigade-sized force.  It was roughly a company-sized force of irregulars.  A platoon of Marines would have been perfectly adequate to defend the ambassador (or even prevent the attack).  Hell, a squad would have made a difference-- they could've held out long enough for relief to arrive.

[alfred russel]

Garbon, I responded with Sudan because a quick google didn't turn up a description of embassy security in South Sudan. It is a new country and embassy which apparently hasn't had parties among its security detachment and posted them on the internet (or I wasn't able to find it).