Tea Partiers harassed by IRS?

[Razgovory]

The Benghazi thing.  If it's such a clear case of either incompetence, or malice then it should be easy to see a way to avoid it.  I'm not seeing one, therefore I'm not seeing it as incompetence (or malice).  Yi is trying to argue that the US should have simply withdrawn assets, but that opens an big can of worms and I wouldn't think you would go in for such a wimpy solution.  So I'm curious who would avoided this disaster.

[Admiral Yi]

What big can of worms is that?  What big can of worms did the Brits open when they pulled out?

[CountDeMoney]

Good. I'd love to see this get vetted through the courts.

Ladies and gentlemen, the power of precedent.  It'd be awesome to have this go through the legal system; it might be a scandal for the current administration, but a good court chokehold on this nonsense would be a great deterrent to both sides.

I for one look forward to the inevitable exoneration of the Internal Revenue Service.

[11B4V]

Good. I'd love to see this get vetted through the courts.

Ladies and gentlemen, the power of precedent.  It'd be awesome to have this go through the legal system; it might be a scandal for the current administration, but a good court chokehold on this nonsense would be a great deterrent to both sides.

I for one look forward to the inevitable exoneration of the Internal Revenue Service.

A bet?

[CountDeMoney]

The Internal Revenue Service frowns upon illegal gambling.

[Razgovory]

No the big can of worms is of we'd have to pull out of lots of places.  In the last 10 years the US has diplomatic missions have been attacked in Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Greece, Yemen, Turkey, Egypt, and Libya.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php?action=post;topic=9814.630;last_msg=585200

Those are just the ones with major attacks.  Smaller attacks aren't always counted here (the minor attacks that constituted the warning signs in Libya aren't mentioned), and certainly more places are under threat then those that have had major attacks.

Like I mentioned before, you'd have to throw Reagan under the bus for the same incompetence (along with pretty much every President in US history), because the US embassy in Lebanon was attacked by a suicide bomber in both 1983 and 1984 not to mention a marines barracks.

[derspiess]

The Benghazi thing.  If it's such a clear case of either incompetence, or malice then it should be easy to see a way to avoid it.  I'm not seeing one, therefore I'm not seeing it as incompetence (or malice).  Yi is trying to argue that the US should have simply withdrawn assets, but that opens an big can of worms and I wouldn't think you would go in for such a wimpy solution.  So I'm curious who would avoided this disaster.

I think we could have limited the ambassador's mobility and increased his security detail (I know, utter craziness).  And I think the aftermath could've been handled better than it was.  I don't think Obama had anything sinister going on-- I just think he's a very poor executive.  He's great at campaigning, agitating and litigating, but he just sucks as an executive.  And why shouldn't he?  He had no experience in that type of role.

[Razgovory]

How much more security are we talking here?

[derspiess]

How much more security are we talking here?

A platoon of infantry oughtta do it.

[Razgovory]

And you think that's realistic?  To have an infantry platoon follow around the ambassador everywhere he goes? You think many countries will agree to that? Do you think Congress will approve of cash for that? What about guys lower down on the chain?  Deputies, CIA station chiefs, and other diplomatic personnel who could be targets.  How much security should they have? I don't know of any US ambassador that had such an escort in US history and this is hardly the first time an ambassador was in danger or even killed.  Does every other President "suck as an executive" for failure to give an ambassador a infantry platoon as his personal body guard?

[The Minsky Moment]

First lawsuit filed against IRS

Good. I'd love to see this get vetted through the courts.

I hope so too. It could get ugly.

I doubt it, at least in the way you are thinking.
The plaintiffs are going to have to get through a whole thicket of immunity doctrines that protect the government and its officers.
The Rehnquist and Roberts courts in particular have been very hostile to civil suits against the government alleging violations of civil rights.
These plaintiffs are going to have it even tougher b/c they are going to struggle to show actual damages as well.

[derspiess]

Because I'm in a good mood, I'll answer all your stupid questions.

And you think that's realistic?  To have an infantry platoon follow around the ambassador everywhere he goes?

I did mention limiting his mobility.  Don't pretend as if Libya were a stable country, Raz. 

You think many countries will agree to that?

Libya damned well better have.  We helped them win their civil war and AFAIK are giving them aid to help rebuild.

Do you think Congress will approve of cash for that?

It's a shitload less money than what we spent on the cruise missile strikes in Libya alone.  Don't see why the cost of an infantry platoon would break the bank.

What about guys lower down on the chain?  Deputies, CIA station chiefs, and other diplomatic personnel who could be targets.  How much security should they have?

Probably not as much.  Do you want me to work out a chart?  Because I won't.

I don't know of any US ambassador that had such an escort in US history and this is hardly the first time an ambassador was in danger or even killed. 

First, it's just a platoon.  Keep things in perspective.  Secondly, it seems pretty obvious that you don't let a VIP like an ambassador move around a volatile region like post-civil war Libya with just a couple bodyguards.

Does every other President "suck as an executive" for failure to give an ambassador a infantry platoon as his personal body guard?

You're personally bothered by that, aren't you?  Obama is simply a subpar executive.  Tough to accept that your god-king is a human with flaws, isn't it?

[Jacob]

Obama is simply a subpar executive.

He isn't.

It's simply the best line of attack you can come up with, since you can find nothing of substance to hold against him.

[11B4V]

First lawsuit filed against IRS

Good. I'd love to see this get vetted through the courts.

I hope so too. It could get ugly.

I doubt it, at least in the way you are thinking.
The plaintiffs are going to have to get through a whole thicket of immunity doctrines that protect the government and its officers.
The Rehnquist and Roberts courts in particular have been very hostile to civil suits against the government alleging violations of civil rights.
These plaintiffs are going to have it even tougher b/c they are going to struggle to show actual damages as well.

I'll defer to you all true legal beagles to fight that out here on languish. 

[derspiess]

Obama is simply a subpar executive.

He isn't.

He is.

It's simply the best line of attack you can come up with, since you can find nothing of substance to hold against him.

I never thought it was some sinister plot.  My contention from the beginning that it was a mishandled situation.  But heaven forbid we dare criticize the current administration.