2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Barrister]

You can respect the will of the voters and still not personally endorse someone. That's a perfectly legitimate stance in a democracy.

I am sure you respect the will of the Canadian voters to elect Justin Trudeau, but you would still say that you personally do not support him...

If anything, party loyalty versus personal convictions is what is in conflict here.

I don't support Trudeau because I'm a member of the opposite party.

My party, the Conservatives, is having a leadership contest right now.  I'm not sure who I'll vote for, but I'll most likely support whomeveer the leader is even if I didn't vote for them.

And Paul Ryan is a high profile Republican - probably the highest profile Republican besides Trump.  He didn't really have the option of just staying silent.  He had to pick a side.

[Kleves]

He picked wrong.

[garbon]

I think loyalty to country is more important than party loyalty.

[Berkut]

He certainly picked in a manner that suggests he isn't as principled as he would like us to believe.

It might have been a politically necessary decision anyway, since standing on principle could have reasonable been seen by him as political suicide.

[Admiral Yi]

Part of the support/don't support game is conditioned by the hope that staying engaged gives one a greater chance of pulling Donald toward more reasonable positions/statements/behaviors.  That seems to me to have been Ryan's main consideration.

[Barrister]

Part of the support/don't support game is conditioned by the hope that staying engaged gives one a greater chance of pulling Donald toward more reasonable positions/statements/behaviors.  That seems to me to have been Ryan's main consideration.

Yeah.  Like I mentioned before Ryan fancies himself as an Ideas Guy.  He helped put together the house republican agenda.  And Trump, well, isn't.  He has very little in the was of concrete policies.  So Ryan hoped he could get Trump to kind of adopt his own policies.

It now seems like that would never work, but it wasn't an unreasonable assumption.

[Zanza]

You can respect the will of the voters and still not personally endorse someone. That's a perfectly legitimate stance in a democracy.

I am sure you respect the will of the Canadian voters to elect Justin Trudeau, but you would still say that you personally do not support him...

If anything, party loyalty versus personal convictions is what is in conflict here.

I don't support Trudeau because I'm a member of the opposite party.

Exactly my point. Ryan could have respected the result and still not supported Trump.

My party, the Conservatives, is having a leadership contest right now.  I'm not sure who I'll vote for, but I'll most likely support whomeveer the leader is even if I didn't vote for them.

The "most likely" is the relevant part. It means that your party loyalty does not trump all other considerations.

And Paul Ryan is a high profile Republican - probably the highest profile Republican besides Trump.  He didn't really have the option of just staying silent.  He had to pick a side.

Sure. And the way he made that choice made him appear to be an unprincipled careerist to me who put his own career over his values.

[alfred russel]

It now seems like that would never work, but it wasn't an unreasonable assumption.

Now that we will never likely find out for sure, it isn't crazy to think that Trump would act as president a lot like how he has acted the past several years / decades. Lots of time talking on TV, meeting with important people, tweeting at 3am, etc, but not really doing hard work. A guy like Ryan could probably do whatever he wanted in the House and get a rubber stamp from the white house, provided he didn't steal the limelight, stroked Trump's ego, and made it clear to everyone that Trump was the top dog.

[Syt]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-campaign-hillary-clinton-2016-presidential-election-live

Speaking at a campaign rally in front of his private jet, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump tells a crowd of supporters in Lakeland, Florida - roughly halfway between Tampa and Orlando - urges the attendees to boo the fire department.

"I assume the fire marshall's a Democrat - unbelievable, it never stops," Trump says, in referance to what he claimed to be crowd restrictions at the rally.

"There's a movement going on that's amazing, and in 27 days, we are going to win Florida and we are going to win back the White House."

Speaking in Lakeland, Florida, Donald Trump took the first five minutes of his rally to attack the press, as is his wont.

"These guys are so crooked - they're worse than Hillary Clinton. I think they could be more crooked than Hillary, and that's saying a lot."

"They make us sound like such jerks! It's unbelievable. I tell you, these must be the most dishonest people you'll ever see. You know who I'm talking about, back there - you should be ashamed of yourself."

Donald Trump, on Hillary Clinton:
She shouldn't be allowed to run for president. Based on her crimes, she should not be allowed to run for president.

Donald Trump vows to bolster America's relationship with the Russian Federation, categorically denying that his Russophilia is rooted in his business dealings in Russia, which he says are nonexistent.

"Without the press, without the media, Hillary Clinton is nothing," Trump says. "She's nothing. She's nothing. And she talks about my relationship with the Russians - what do I know about the Russians? What do I know about the Russians?"

"I promise, I don't have any deals with Russia," Trump continues. "I think if we got along with the Russians, that would be good, and frankly, if we got along with the Russians and knocked the hell out of Isis, that would be good."

"That would be smart - but we don't run government smart."

Speaking to a raucous rally in Lakeland, Florida, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump outright called for Democratic rival Hillary Clinton to be imprisoned for her use of private email servers.

"What's happening to our country is a disgrace - it's never happened before," Trump said. "She lied in front of Congress to such an extent... I will ask my attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor."

"And furthermore, furthermore, we are going to investigate this phone investigation. It's a phony investigation," Trump vowed, before declaring: "She deleted the emails - she has to go to jail."

"If you do this privately, it's a criminal act," Trump alleged, based on emails. "She's running for president and she's being protected and these people are protecting her, because without the press, she is nothing. She is nothing. And this has been her whole life."

Donald Trump, speaking in Lakeland, Florida, over chants of "CNN SUCKS!" attacked Republican party leaders who have backed away from his candidacy since video was released showing Trump making sexually predatory comments about assaulting women.

"If we had a little help from our very weak leadership, called our Republican leadership," Trump said ruefully. "These are weak people."

[Syt]

Also from the Guardian's coverage of his Florida campaign rally:

Donald Trump, on losing:
It doesn't matter if you win or lose, because what you've done has never been done in the history of this country.

Donald Trump, on losing, again:
If I lose, I will consider it the biggest waste of time, energy and money that I have ever done in my entire life.

[LaCroix]

ryan has been pretty principled throughout this election, imo. if he were just a congressman without a leadership position, he'd have acted differently. but that's not the case, so he's trying to stand by his obligations.

[Jacob]

I don't support Trudeau because I'm a member of the opposite party.

No of course you don't, but you respect that he's the duly elected prime minister of Canada (which is what Zanza was saying).

[Zoupa]

Ryan is an Ayn Randtard, so fuck him and his "big ideas". Are you kidding me?

Same with those evangelicals for Trump. Talk about unprincipled. Folks really hate Clinton down there.

[CountDeMoney]

If Ryan thought he could control Trump, it's because he never got a chance to talk to Ivana. #Blueprint #CouldveToldYouThat

[celedhring]

Can't wait for their reaction should Nate Silver publish a map of what would happen if blacks didn't vote.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-backers-tweet-repealthe19th-1476299001-htmlstory.html

Trump backers tweet #repealthe19th after polls show he'd win if only men voted