2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Malthus]

He's mad that they take a stand in Georgia while not saying anything in SA. But that's the nature of the entire Western / SA relationship. They hold us by the balls.

Dunno about that - have you been following oil prices? 

If we piss off the Saudis, what would they do - threaten to sell oil even cheaper? 

[Berkut]

He's mad that they take a stand in Georgia while not saying anything in SA. But that's the nature of the entire Western / SA relationship. They hold us by the balls.

Dunno about that - have you been following oil prices? 

If we piss off the Saudis, what would they do - threaten to sell oil even cheaper? 

To the extent that these companies are acting out of some moral sense of justice, again, it is silly to find it "hypocritical", especially if you buy into the idea that the things they are doing are positive.

Some given company almost certainly has zero leverage over how SA treats gays. Their refusal to do business will not matter one bit.

That same company may very well have considerable influence in Georgia, and none in North Dakota.

Exercising the leverage where they can make perfect moral and practical sense.

[Martinus]

It sounds to me like you are mad that their moral outrage doesn't align perfectly with your own, rather than that they have moral outrage at all.

Not really. I think these laws (and actually Georgia, IIRC, is not the one with the bathroom laws, but the "license to discriminate" laws, which I find even more objectionable) are wrongheaded, counterproductive and possibly unconstitutional.

However, I am not comfortable with large corporations exerting pressure on democratically elected representatives by this type of corporate blackmail, especially given that there are democratic and "within-the-system" ways of changing such laws - such as campaigning to elect different representatives and/or challenging constitutionality of these laws in court (methods which, by the way, do not exist in case of Saudi Arabia savage and incomparably more inhuman laws).

And as I said in the "gay thread", if these companies wanted to actually help LGBT Georgians who can be legally discriminated against under these laws, they should support and sponsor Georgian businesses that adopt a non-discrimination policy - instead of threatening to pull out of Georgia entirely.

[Malthus]

He's mad that they take a stand in Georgia while not saying anything in SA. But that's the nature of the entire Western / SA relationship. They hold us by the balls.

Dunno about that - have you been following oil prices? 

If we piss off the Saudis, what would they do - threaten to sell oil even cheaper? 

To the extent that these companies are acting out of some moral sense of justice, again, it is silly to find it "hypocritical", especially if you buy into the idea that the things they are doing are positive.

Some given company almost certainly has zero leverage over how SA treats gays. Their refusal to do business will not matter one bit.

That same company may very well have considerable influence in Georgia, and none in North Dakota.

Exercising the leverage where they can make perfect moral and practical sense.

I agree with all that. I was just contesting the notion that the Saudis have us "by the balls".

[Berkut]

I am as opposed to corporations using their power to influence politicians for their own profit as much as anyone, and vastly more than most. Or rather, doing so in a corrupt and non-transparent manner.

However, I have zero problem with a corporation noting that some proposed legislation will make it more difficult to do business in some locale, and that they would then choose to leave.

It is a blurry line, of course.

Is it blackmail though? When does letting a representative know what the repercussions of a potential move might be become blackmail?

[Martinus]

He's mad that they take a stand in Georgia while not saying anything in SA. But that's the nature of the entire Western / SA relationship. They hold us by the balls.

Dunno about that - have you been following oil prices? 

If we piss off the Saudis, what would they do - threaten to sell oil even cheaper? 

I am not talking about government policies. I am talking about these companies.

For example, Coca-Cola, which threatened to pull out of Georgia over a law that would allow a small time bakery owner in Atlanta to bake a cake for a gay wedding - but is perfectly happy to have Riyadh HQ offices and a factory in Saudi Arabia, where they behead gays. Sorry, but that's hypocritical and no matter of bullshit is going to change it.

[Berkut]

He's mad that they take a stand in Georgia while not saying anything in SA. But that's the nature of the entire Western / SA relationship. They hold us by the balls.

Dunno about that - have you been following oil prices? 

If we piss off the Saudis, what would they do - threaten to sell oil even cheaper? 

I am not talking about government policies. I am talking about these companies.

For example, Coca-Cola, which threatened to pull out of Georgia over a law that would allow a small time bakery owner in Atlanta to bake a cake for a gay wedding - but is perfectly happy to have Riyadh HQ offices and a factory in Saudi Arabia, where they behead gays. Sorry, but that's hypocritical and no matter of bullshit is going to change it.

Leverage.

Are you seriously saying that unless Coca-Cola can fix every possible problem everywhere they do business, regardless of whether they are actually capable of fixing those problems, they should not try to even fix the problems they can fix in some places?

Coca-Cola, btw, is headquartered in Atlanta. They have immense leverage and history in Georgia.

[Martinus]

No, but I think the Georgia thing is a very minor one.

And besides, as I said, my biggest problem is that they have other, more productive ways of opposing that law. The way they chose to do it is counter productive and actually fuels the narrative of big gay buck trying to blackmail poor Georgian Christians.

[frunk]

No, but I think the Georgia thing is a very minor one.

So was having to sit in a specific part of a bus.

And besides, as I said, my biggest problem is that they have other, more productive ways of opposing that law. The way they chose to do it is counter productive and actually fuels the narrative of big gay buck trying to blackmail poor Georgian Christians.

Corporations can be gay?  You are really taking this corporate personhood thing too far.

[Valmy]

I have to say these anti-Trans bathroom laws are a little bizarre. I had no idea it was actually a law who could use the bathrooms, I thought it was just a courtesy. What is the actual penalty for accidentally pooping in the wrong stall of the wrong room?

Those times somebody accidentally entered the wrong bathroom? Also a few times when the ladies' room was crowded and we let some women use our stalls? Or that time a dad went in to the ladies room to help his five year old daughter? When will hardened criminals like this be stopped? WAKE UP AMERICA! Our over-crowded prisons need to get a bit over-crowded-er to combat this menace.

[Martinus]

I have to say these anti-Trans bathroom laws are a little bizarre. I had no idea it was actually a law who could use the bathrooms, I thought it was just a courtesy. What is the actual penalty for accidentally pooping in the wrong stall of the wrong room?

Those times somebody accidentally entered the wrong bathroom? Also a few times when the ladies' room was crowded and we let some women use our stalls? Or that time a dad went in to the ladies room to help his five year old daughter? When will hardened criminals like this be stopped? WAKE UP AMERICA! Our over-crowded prisons need to get a bit over-crowded-er to combat this menace.

That's clearly animus laws, and pretty stupid. That's why you have courts and democratic process.

[alfred russel]

I am not talking about government policies. I am talking about these companies.

For example, Coca-Cola, which threatened to pull out of Georgia over a law that would allow a small time bakery owner in Atlanta to bake a cake for a gay wedding - but is perfectly happy to have Riyadh HQ offices and a factory in Saudi Arabia, where they behead gays. Sorry, but that's hypocritical and no matter of bullshit is going to change it.

Coke didn't threaten to pull out of Georgia. They put out this statement:

Coca-Cola does not support any legislation that discriminates, in our home state of Georgia or anywhere else. Coca-Cola values and celebrates diversity. We believe policies that would allow a business to refuse service to an individual based upon discrimination of any kind, does not only violate our Company's core values, but would also negatively affect our consumers, customers, suppliers, bottling partners and associates. As a business, it is appropriate for us to help foster diversity, unity and respect among all people.

We advocate for inclusion, equality and diversity through both our policies and practices. Coca-Cola does not condone intolerance or discrimination of any kind anywhere in the world.

[Barrister]

Dorsey was questioning me on whether I doubted Trump was going to win the nomination.

Latest poll from New York has Trump with a 36 point lead, 56 to 20 for Cruz and 19 for Kasich.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trump-clinton-dominate-new-york-primaries-in-new-poll-221397

[Tonitrus]

Well, there is really only two options now anyway:  Trump or Brokered Convention.

I think there is a very good shot Trump won't make the magic 1257, and if that happens, it is very likely he gets dumped in favor of Cruz or Kasich.

If Trump doesn't get the nomination at the convention, my predication is:

- Major media stir in Cleveland...because ratings
- Significant stir inside GOP itself
- GOP goes on to push their candidate, Trump goes back to his business (no third party run, but probably lots of hyperbole/obscenities)
- Lots of Trump voters stay home on election day
- President Hillary Clinton
- First Dude Bill gets caught with Angela Merkel in the Lincoln Bedroom

[alfred russel]

Dorsey was questioning me on whether I doubted Trump was going to win the nomination.

Latest poll from New York has Trump with a 36 point lead, 56 to 20 for Cruz and 19 for Kasich.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trump-clinton-dominate-new-york-primaries-in-new-poll-221397

That would more than offset the looming trainwreck in Wisconsin. But that trainwreck may knock the train off the tracks. Lets see where the poll numbers are in a couple weeks.