2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Razgovory]

My Latina wife thinks we should support Ted Cruz in the primary.  Walker's my guy at the moment but officially I have to support Cruz because he's the only major candidate who has declared.

Can you really trust a man who has so totally forsaken the nation of his birth and issued a grave insult to our close ally?

[Valmy]

No patriot love in this son command 

[derspiess]

My Latina wife thinks we should support Ted Cruz in the primary.  Walker's my guy at the moment but officially I have to support Cruz because he's the only major candidate who has declared.

Can you really trust a man who has so totally forsaken the nation of his birth and issued a grave insult to our close ally?

I trust Obama.

[Razgovory]

Nice try.  I did watch some Skips friends try to work out how Ted Cruz was different from Obama on the birther issue.  Answer:  Obama's mother was a communist.

[derspiess]

She was a weird bird, but Obama and Cruz are both legit citizens.

[viper37]

A question about that natural born citizen thing.

Historically speaking, the son of a Texan settler, before it integrated the US, or say, French citizens before the purchase of Louisianna, were they automatically considered US citizens at the time of annexation?  And the child of a natural born citizen who does not claim its US citizenship, will his children have a future claim to citizenship?

[Admiral Yi]

And the child of a natural born citizen who does not claim its US citizenship, will his children have a future claim to citizenship?

I think someone recently posted an article which mentioned a guy who claimed citizenship late in life.

[dps]

A question about that natural born citizen thing.

Historically speaking, the son of a Texan settler, before it integrated the US, or say, French citizens before the purchase of Louisianna, were they automatically considered US citizens at the time of annexation?

I'm not sure that there was a general rule.  I know that in the cases of Florida and Alaska, Spanish and Russian citizens, respectively, had to either leave within a year or become US citizens.  They wouldn't have been considered natural born, though, I don't think, but AFAIK, the issue never came before the courts.  With Texas, I'm almost certain that Texas citizens automatically became US citizens, but I'm not 100% sure about their natural born status, and again, I'm not aware of any case law on the matter.  Not sure about other annexations, but I think in most cases, residents of the annexed area automatically became US citizens (or at least US nationals).

And the child of a natural born citizen who does not claim its US citizenship, will his children have a future claim to citizenship?

I don't know.  I'd guess "no", but it's just a guess.

[viper37]

And the child of a natural born citizen who does not claim its US citizenship, will his children have a future claim to citizenship?

I think someone recently posted an article which mentioned a guy who claimed citizenship late in life.

Let's go more specific than that:
Situation 1:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in the US, from Canadian parents.  In her 50s, she decides to claim her US citizenship.  By now, she has 3 children, all born in Canada from Canadian parents.  Are her children eligible for US citizenship after she claims hers?

Situation 2:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in the US, from Canadian parents.  In her 50s, she dies, without evern claiming her US citizenship.  By now, she hads 3 children, all born in Canada from Canadian parents.  Are her children eligible for US citizenship?

Situation 3:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in Texas, from Mexican parents, c.a 1820.  In 1839 she gives birth to her first child.  Following the war of 1845, is the child a natural born citizen of the United States that could become a US President or will only the grandkid be eligible?

Situation 4:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in Texas, from American parents who never were Amerian citizens themselves (only the grandparents of Martha were citizens), c.a 1820.  In 1839 she gives birth to her first child.  Following the war of 1845, is Martha considered a natural born citizen herself?
Is the child a natural born citizen of the United States that could become a US President or will only the grandkid be eligible? 

Situation 5:
Woman, let's call her Anne-Marie, born in New Orleans, from French parents who never were Amerian citizens themselves , c.a 1820.  In 1839 she gives birth to her first child.  Following the war of 1845, is Martha considered a natural born citizen herself?  Is the child a natural born citizen of the United States that could become a US President or will only the grandkid be eligible? 

[viper37]

A question about that natural born citizen thing.

Historically speaking, the son of a Texan settler, before it integrated the US, or say, French citizens before the purchase of Louisianna, were they automatically considered US citizens at the time of annexation?

I'm not sure that there was a general rule.  I know that in the cases of Florida and Alaska, Spanish and Russian citizens, respectively, had to either leave within a year or become US citizens.  They wouldn't have been considered natural born, though, I don't think, but AFAIK, the issue never came before the courts.  With Texas, I'm almost certain that Texas citizens automatically became US citizens, but I'm not 100% sure about their natural born status, and again, I'm not aware of any case law on the matter.  Not sure about other annexations, but I think in most cases, residents of the annexed area automatically became US citizens (or at least US nationals).

And the child of a natural born citizen who does not claim its US citizenship, will his children have a future claim to citizenship?

I don't know.  I'd guess "no", but it's just a guess.

ok, that answers my questions, there does not seem to be any "right of blood" for the US.  Thank you dps

[crazy canuck]

Not enough time to pass an amendment allowing Brits to be eligible, sorry.

How did the first American presidents overcome that problem?

Bump.

Was the requirement of being born an American added at some later date?

Here's the relevant language from the Constitution:

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Basically, they got grandfathered in.  Note that people who weren't born in areas that became part of the US, but who were US citizens at the time the Constitution was adopted, would have been eligible.  Someone like Alexander Hamilton, who was born in Bermuda IIRC (or was it the Bahamas?  Anyway, somewhere on some British-controlled island) could have become President.

thanks dps

[Eddie Teach]

Situation 3:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in Texas, from Mexican parents, c.a 1820. 

More likely Marta.

[viper37]

Situation 3:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in Texas, from Mexican parents, c.a 1820. 

More likely Marta.

they were anglophiles

[grumbler]

Let's go more specific than that:
Situation 1:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in the US, from Canadian parents.  In her 50s, she decides to claim her US citizenship.  By now, she has 3 children, all born in Canada from Canadian parents.  Are her children eligible for US citizenship after she claims hers?

One is a citizen by birth from birth.  One doesn't need to "claim" citizenship to possess it.  Her children are not citizens unless she has spent ten years of her life (five after age five) in the US (or, more recently, I think only 5 years, 2 after the age of five).

Situation 2:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in the US, from Canadian parents.  In her 50s, she dies, without evern claiming her US citizenship.  By now, she hads 3 children, all born in Canada from Canadian parents.  Are her children eligible for US citizenship?

Same answer as above.  She had citizenship but doesn't pass it on unless she satisfied US residency requirements.

Situation 3:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in Texas, from Mexican parents, c.a 1820.  In 1839 she gives birth to her first child.  Following the war of 1845, is the child a natural born citizen of the United States that could become a US President or will only the grandkid be eligible?

Both Martha and her children are natural-born citizens, as far as I can make out.  This is one of the "retroactive" clauses of the concept of "natural-born," much like the one allowing people who were citizens at the time of ratification.  I can't find evidence that it's ever been tested, though.

Situation 4:
Woman, let's call her Martha, born in Texas, from American parents who never were Amerian citizens themselves (only the grandparents of Martha were citizens), c.a 1820.  In 1839 she gives birth to her first child.  Following the war of 1845, is Martha considered a natural born citizen herself?
Is the child a natural born citizen of the United States that could become a US President or will only the grandkid be eligible? 

I'm not sure how you get this case.  How can Martha's grandparents be citizens but her parents not be?

Situation 5:
Woman, let's call her Anne-Marie, born in New Orleans, from French parents who never were Amerian citizens themselves , c.a 1820.  In 1839 she gives birth to her first child.  Following the war of 1845, is Martha considered a natural born citizen herself?  Is the child a natural born citizen of the United States that could become a US President or will only the grandkid be eligible? 

Anne-Marie is a natural-born US citizen from the moment of her birth on US soil.  Her child is or is not a citizen depending on the nationality of the father (yes, if the father is a US citizen, only if Anne-Marie satisfied the residency requirements if he was not). 

[Caliga]

Rand Paul just threw his hat in the ring.... because running the Senate just isn't enough for Kentucky Y'ALL.