Penny pinching: Can Obama kill the one-cent coin?

[garbon]

The government should coerce us into a not demonstrably better system so it can save money?

There is this, for what it's worth - other countries have made the change to (a) having equivalent to dollar coins; and (b) getting rid of equivalent to pennies.

I've never heard anyone from these other countries ever remark 'you know, that was a mistake. We need to being back small denomination bills and coins'.

Maybe some do, but the overwhelming consensus of those who have actually used both systems on a daily basis for themselves is that eliminating small bills and coins is preferable. As well as, of course, being cheaper in the form of saving tax dollars.

Now, we all know Americans are special, and so cannot learn from other's experience as it has zero validity for them, but insofar as these things can be "demonstrated" ...

Alright hit me with it (as my initial objection was phrased as a question - I think) - what beyond the savings in tax dollars is better for the individual about turning small bills into coins?

I'm not going to argue the penny front as I already said change is useless so I don't care if that goes away.

[mongers]

I suspect part of people's reactions to coins and bill/notes, might rest on how they were taught, or not, to deal with coins/counting in school and by their parents.

I do dimly recall being taught maths involving coins an examples and we might actually have played out scenarios in school. I guess I grew up thinking it natural when you buy something, you can work out the expected change and more importantly know what combination of coins to make to give the shop exact change/payment.

Perhaps this isn't so common nowadays or that that level/type of basic numeracy isn't so necessary. 

Plus with generally higher levels of pay over the last quarter century, people haven't been so bothered with the pennies preferring to focus on the pounds. Dealing with change is seen as just an inconvenience ?

[alfred russel]

I'm with you on the penny, but not the rest. I don't carry coins; and I don't have a wallet to accomodate them. Bills are much easier. I'm willing to pay in taxes the extra $2.00 or whatever my share is to keep the dollar bill.

The question is why do you carry cash?  And why small bills?  I have my cards, I have a few 20$ bills from the ATM, but that's all.
I'm not gonna carry 100$ on me in 1$ dollar coins.  Never did that with bills in the past.

In some cases they even have advantages over metric.

Please, make a list?

Some people don't take credit cards. For example, a person who alters my clothes out of her house only takes cash. Valets and parking attendants often only take cash.

I think the biggest drawback to metric is that it in measurements it uses a base 10 system. A base 10 system is not divisible by 3s or 4s. When the english system uses a base 12 system, I think it has an advantage in that regard (for example, 12 inches make a foot).

If we really want to move toward the most efficient end state, I think we should covert to a base 12 number system, and convert everything to a metric system adjusted for that. (I think base 12 would be the best, as the first number that is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 5 is 60, which is too large, although it did work for the babylonians).

[garbon]

I suspect part of people's reactions to coins and bill/notes, might rest on how they were taught, or not, to deal with coins/counting in school and by their parents.

I do dimly recall being taught maths involving coins an examples and we might actually have played out scenarios in school. I guess I grew up thinking it natural when you buy something, you can work out the expected change and more importantly know what combination of coins to make to give the shop exact change/payment.

Perhaps this isn't so common nowadays or that that level/type of basic numeracy isn't so necessary.

I don't know that such is necessarily true. After all, I was educated on creating exact change and had relative modeling the behavior. Nevertheless, I always thought it obnoxious when we'd wait around for them to find that nickel they needed in their purse.

Dealing with change is seen as just an inconvenience ?

I definitely would agree with that.

[fhdz]

The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.

Is that the right word, factors?  Been a while.  Or is it divisors?

Factors.

12 has 1,2,3,4,6,12
10 has 1,2,5,10

[MadBurgerMaker]

The only thing that wasn't lame about things like 100yen coins was that after a few drinks, you could make 'beer sized' (the amount a beer costs at that particular shithole) stacks of them on the bar top and just slide them at the bartender. Everything else about a reasonably 'valuable' coin that I seemed to end up with a lot totally fucking sucked.

[Maximus]

The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.

Is that the right word, factors?  Been a while.  Or is it divisors?

This is somewhat useful if you are doing carpentry by hand.

Yea I'm not seeing an obvious advantage there. In the vast majority of cases you're going to be using fractions anyway, which are much simpler in a decimal system. It sounds like someone looking for an excuse.

[grumbler]

No, I'm replying to a guy who doesn't like using cash at all, except for " ... a $20 bill or two" as an emergency stash for places that are cash-only where his credit card is no good. I said nothing whatsoever about dollar coins having "no impact on those who prefer to use dollar bills to dollar coins". That's something you invented. Even you should understand that labelling something I've not said as a "misapprehension" is a misapprehension on your part, not on mine. 

I can't imagine many are going to be carrying a couple of individual dollar bills as an emergency stash.

I think you misunderstand the "guy" and so imagine poorly.

[fhdz]

In the vast majority of cases you're going to be using fractions anyway, which are much simpler in a decimal system.

AMEN, sir. A. MEN.

[grumbler]

Not your fault of course, but calling it a "one-loonie coin" is absurd.

Quibble noted.  I (and, I would note, many others) generally use the term "loonie" to mean the Canadian dollar in the vernacular.  I guess I knew it was technically wrong, and acknowledge again that it is, but doubt I will stop.  I probably use the term once a year, sand so just won't remember the quibble (correct as it is) next time.

[viper37]

Same story as above but even more so given that there would be a large cost expenditure in order to switch both private and governmental.

The longer you wait, the more costs there are gonna be.  It ain't ever gonna go down.  And eventually, you'll have to switch.

[fhdz]

Not your fault of course, but calling it a "one-loonie coin" is absurd.

Quibble noted.  I (and, I would note, many others) generally use the term "loonie" to mean the Canadian dollar in the vernacular.  I guess I knew it was technically wrong, and acknowledge again that it is, but doubt I will stop.  I probably use the term once a year, sand so just won't remember the quibble (correct as it is) next time.

Why, that's just loony!

[garbon]

Same story as above but even more so given that there would be a large cost expenditure in order to switch both private and governmental.

The longer you wait, the more costs there are gonna be.  It ain't ever gonna go down.  And eventually, you'll have to switch.

Why?

[Malthus]

The government should coerce us into a not demonstrably better system so it can save money?

There is this, for what it's worth - other countries have made the change to (a) having equivalent to dollar coins; and (b) getting rid of equivalent to pennies.

I've never heard anyone from these other countries ever remark 'you know, that was a mistake. We need to being back small denomination bills and coins'.

Maybe some do, but the overwhelming consensus of those who have actually used both systems on a daily basis for themselves is that eliminating small bills and coins is preferable. As well as, of course, being cheaper in the form of saving tax dollars.

Now, we all know Americans are special, and so cannot learn from other's experience as it has zero validity for them, but insofar as these things can be "demonstrated" ...

Alright hit me with it (as my initial objection was phrased as a question - I think) - what beyond the savings in tax dollars is better for the individual about turning small bills into coins?

I'm not going to argue the penny front as I already said change is useless so I don't care if that goes away.

They are useful for the sort of applications one tends to use single dollars for - tips, and vending machines of all sorts. Dollar bills (in the US, and when we had 'em) are often so worn that the machine just spits 'em out.

But more importantly, they mean the bills actually in your wallet are the valuable stuff while the change in your pocket or coin pouch is the small stuff you use for truly minor transactions.

Think of it in reverse - if you hate coins so much, why not get rid of 'em altogether and have 1 cent, 5 cent, 10 cent and 25 cent bills? Because, I suspect, you would find them filling your wallet, making it thick like a telephone book, and making it hard to quickly find more valuable bills.

[viper37]

Please, make a list?

The one obvious advantage is that 12 has more factors than 10 does.

Is that the right word, factors?  Been a while.  Or is it divisors?

This is somewhat useful if you are doing carpentry by hand.

Even there...
-"Move 1/2"
- Back 1/4
- 3/8
- ok we got it.

Now, with metric:
- Move 3mm to the left.
- Done.