David Cameron calls for EU referendum

[mongers]

What's the deal on the working time directive?

You may only work 10 hours per day and 48 hours per week in the EU under normal circumstances. The Tories somehow think that's root of all our economic problems.

More specifically, the directive is that over a certain period - I think two months - you must not average over 48 hours a week.

One has to wonder how the Nordic states and Germany do so well in "competitiveness" (God, how I hate that word) under the same regulations, and without all the opt outs, than the UK does. And yet the Tories think waving the magic wand of deregulation, when we already have the most liberal laws in the EU on these thing, is all we need to unleash that entrepreneurial magma we have sitting beneath us. :

Because in many instances that's not an honestly held belief ?

[mongers]

If that directive goes in effect in the UK I would expect real estate prices in Hong Kong and Manhattan to skyrocket.

Very unlikely those workers affected would be able to afford those prices.

[Admiral Yi]

Very unlikely those workers affected would be able to afford those prices.

I was given incomplete information.

[Zanza]

If that directive goes in effect in the UK I would expect real estate prices in Hong Kong and Manhattan to skyrocket.

It has been in force since 1993.

[Zanza]

More specifically, the directive is that over a certain period - I think two months - you must not average over 48 hours a week.

One has to wonder how the Nordic states and Germany do so well in "competitiveness" (God, how I hate that word) under the same regulations, and without all the opt outs, than the UK does. And yet the Tories think waving the magic wand of deregulation, when we already have the most liberal laws in the EU on these thing, is all we need to unleash that entrepreneurial magma we have sitting beneath us. :

I wonder how many people actually work more than 48 hours on average anyway. A normal full-time employee works an average of 42.7 hours in the UK. I would assume that the big majority of British workers works less than the 48 hours that are allowed.

[Warspite]

If that directive goes in effect in the UK I would expect real estate prices in Hong Kong and Manhattan to skyrocket.

I think it is a stretch to say that the EU Working Time Directive is the reason London is a bigger centre of finance than Frankfurt and Paris.

[Zanza]

I very much doubt that investment bankers in Frankfurt or Paris adhere to it anyway. It's not like it is really enforced unless the employees complain.

[Richard Hakluyt]

If he can get Frau Merkel to throw him a couple of bones to help in both his election and the referendum then that is all to the good.

If it takes an opt-out from the working time directive to keep the UK in the EU, he'll get what he wishes for. I don't know why it is such a fetish to the Tories, but I doubt very many people in other countries care for it.

On the other hand, what does he have to offer to the rest of the union? It's not like he brings much to the table. He'll have a hard time to even make the rest of the leaders discuss any potential changes for Britain. I doubt it is very high on the agenda of anybody else.

Do you seriously think that there is no room for improvement with the way that the EU manages things? I'm sure there is potential for constructive tinkering that will benefit the EU as a whole as well as give Cameron some boasts to put before the British voters.

Though I won't deny that I'm not impressed with the current British government's competence, they are perfectly capable of fucking the whole thing up and weakening both the UK and the EU.

Once again I would stress the pragmatism of the British electorate, I think a "Yes" vote is almost guaranteed, which would in turn enable the country's politicians to play a more positive role in Europe. Alternatively, if Labour wins the next election, then there will be no referendum but there will be considerable evidence that the population is by no means as anti-EU as some would like to pretend.

[Martinus]

LOL

Radek Sikorski, the Polish minister of foreign affairs, has just said that Cameron's speech has moved the UK's position within the EU from one of the Triumvirate of France, Germany and the UK to that of a "special country" ("special" having a distinct "short bus" connotation in Polish).  

[Razgovory]

Nah, to easy.

[Warspite]

If he can get Frau Merkel to throw him a couple of bones to help in both his election and the referendum then that is all to the good.

If it takes an opt-out from the working time directive to keep the UK in the EU, he'll get what he wishes for. I don't know why it is such a fetish to the Tories, but I doubt very many people in other countries care for it.

On the other hand, what does he have to offer to the rest of the union? It's not like he brings much to the table. He'll have a hard time to even make the rest of the leaders discuss any potential changes for Britain. I doubt it is very high on the agenda of anybody else.

Do you seriously think that there is no room for improvement with the way that the EU manages things? I'm sure there is potential for constructive tinkering that will benefit the EU as a whole as well as give Cameron some boasts to put before the British voters.

Though I won't deny that I'm not impressed with the current British government's competence, they are perfectly capable of fucking the whole thing up and weakening both the UK and the EU.

Once again I would stress the pragmatism of the British electorate, I think a "Yes" vote is almost guaranteed, which would in turn enable the country's politicians to play a more positive role in Europe. Alternatively, if Labour wins the next election, then there will be no referendum but there will be considerable evidence that the population is by no means as anti-EU as some would like to pretend.

This isn't about the electorate: it's about a government that, in dealing with its rupture over Europe, does not have the political ability or will to adopt a statesmanlike posture to deal with the EU's very real shortcomings in a farsighted way.

Basically, Cameron has burnt what excellent political capital the UK did have on this Quixotic quest to negotiate some kind of pick n' mix adoption of EU provisions. He has not used it to push for the really necessary reforms, such as properly liberalising the single market for services.

[Josquius]

Given Britain's complete inability to do referendums properly this rather worries me.

1. He's done it to win the next election. Silly old Millipede has already called it a weak move thus painting Labour into a corner.

Ouch, after Cameron's annocunment it seemed pretty certain labour would promise the same too. But that.....

[Sheilbh]

The Tories are, it is now sadly apparent, more deluded on Europe than I thought.

Yep. The monomania is really unbelievable. I thought Cameron had buried Europe as an issue because he was genuinely Eurosceptic, and there were more important things to worry about...No. I think the Spectator last week said that without an in-out referendum the Tories were more likely to split than at any time since the Corn Laws

I think the speech could matter. I wouldn't be surprised if Labour and Lib Dems (who normally support an EU referendum) both promise one at the next election.

This speech seems a bit of a mistake though. It actually is, I think, a pretty accurate and fair diagnosis of the EU and the problems with it. I also think there's some general 'liberal' ideas of how to address them that every party in Britain could support and, I think, a good many other EU members could (the Dutch, Finnish, Czechs and, more guardedly, the Germans have praised this aspect).

But all of that good work was undermined because Cameron tied it not to a broader process of reform, but to a renegotiation by Britain and because he then made the referendum promise which was a bit of party management. So the vision stuff was good but then tied into a unilateral policy and a purely political announcement. Had Cameron announced the referendum, and renegotiation in one week and then delivered his big 'Europe' speech a while later (maybe, as planned, in Amsterdam or somewhere else foreign) then I think it'd be quite highly praised, including by other Euro-politicians.

Edit: Blair (who wouldn't have fucked this up) was brilliant on this. He said of Cameron's negotiating position: 'it reminds me a bit of the Mel Brooks comedy Blazing Saddles where the sheriff says at one point as he holds a gun to his own head: 'If you don't do what I want I'll blow my brains out.' You want to watch out that one of the 26 [other EU member states] doesn't just say: 'OK, go ahead.''

Edit: Also I think the state's that have been most receptive so far are striking. They're the smaller countries that tend to share the UK's generally liberal attitude (Sweden, Netherlands, Finland) and probably have most to lose from the inevitable increase of less liberal French/protectionist influence if the UK left (probably Germany too).

[garbon]

Maybe he can use his goodwill with his party to get gay marriage through.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe he can use his goodwill with his party to get gay marriage through.

Gay marriage'll pass. Labour and Lib Dems support it. I'd guess that the majority of Tories will support it too.