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Are you a statist?

Started by derspiess, January 10, 2013, 11:49:11 AM

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In economic terms, do you consider yourself a statist?

Yes
16 (47.1%)
No
18 (52.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

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Admiral Yi

#45
January 11, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
Raz, a statist is a person who has a preference for government involvement in the economy.  You seem to be off on a mistaken tangent.

Razgovory

#46
January 11, 2013, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 11, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
Raz, a statist is a person who has a preference for government involvement in the economy.  You seem to be off on a mistaken tangent.

QuoteHowever you define it yourself.
From the guy who started the thread.  It's a vague term, which is why this thread failed so badly.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

#47
January 11, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 11, 2013, 01:55:10 PM
How many slaves were owned by the state compared to how many were owned by individuals?  To the slave owners the state did not give the right to own a slave, it was an innate right.  Just as the state does not confer the right own other types of property.
The state provided the infrastructure for slavery.  The state also made the decision as to who is and who isn't property.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

derspiess

#48
January 11, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 11, 2013, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 11, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
Raz, a statist is a person who has a preference for government involvement in the economy.  You seem to be off on a mistaken tangent.

QuoteHowever you define it yourself.
From the guy who started the thread.  It's a vague term, which is why this thread failed so badly.

Yet you keep posting in it.  Anyway in the actual poll question I specified economics.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#49
January 11, 2013, 02:28:19 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 11, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
The state provided the infrastructure for slavery.  The state also made the decision as to who is and who isn't property.

HOw did the state provide this in a colonial society?  I presume we are talking about the origins of slavery because the US Government just inherited this.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Neil

#50
January 11, 2013, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 11, 2013, 02:28:19 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 11, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
The state provided the infrastructure for slavery.  The state also made the decision as to who is and who isn't property.
HOw did the state provide this in a colonial society?  I presume we are talking about the origins of slavery because the US Government just inherited this.
I'm talking about the US.  The legal system needed provision for the capture and return of escaped slaves, as well as differentiating slaves from non-slaves.  You couldn't just enslave anyone you wnated, after all.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

#51
January 11, 2013, 05:36:02 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 11, 2013, 02:25:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 11, 2013, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 11, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
Raz, a statist is a person who has a preference for government involvement in the economy.  You seem to be off on a mistaken tangent.

QuoteHowever you define it yourself.
From the guy who started the thread.  It's a vague term, which is why this thread failed so badly.

Yet you keep posting in it.  Anyway in the actual poll question I specified economics.

Slavery is an economic issue.  Besides, I like train wrecks.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

#52
January 11, 2013, 05:56:28 PM
Shouldn't you be using your EBT card at a liquor store or something?
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

CountDeMoney

#53
January 11, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
He's a Dadaist.

Razgovory

#54
January 11, 2013, 07:04:45 PM
Quote from: derspiess on January 11, 2013, 05:56:28 PM
Shouldn't you be using your EBT card at a liquor store or something?

Don't drink, also no EBT card. :)  I'm not sure there is a law where the US specifically legalized slavery.  Anymore then a law that legalized the ownership of livestock.  It was a terrible tyranny and it was a private one conducted for the benefit of individuals.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Sheilbh

#55
January 11, 2013, 10:28:21 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 11, 2013, 01:26:04 PM
A little on the abstract side, no?  And I believe the US, the great bastion of Anglo Saxon laissez faire, is around 50% if you include all the layers of government.
The US is around the low 40s - same sort of level as Canada, New Zealand, Australia and some Euros. Over 50% is the UK, France, Scandinavia and just under that's places like Italy and Germany. 

I'm kind of with Raz, for me statist implies subordination of economy to the state's interests.
Let's bomb Russia!

dps

#56
January 11, 2013, 11:55:04 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 11, 2013, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 11, 2013, 02:28:19 PM
Quote from: Neil on January 11, 2013, 02:21:07 PM
The state provided the infrastructure for slavery.  The state also made the decision as to who is and who isn't property.
HOw did the state provide this in a colonial society?  I presume we are talking about the origins of slavery because the US Government just inherited this.
I'm talking about the US.  The legal system needed provision for the capture and return of escaped slaves, as well as differentiating slaves from non-slaves.  You couldn't just enslave anyone you wnated, after all.

Or, as Stephan Douglas pointed out in his famous debates with Lincoln, slavery couldn't exist without the state laws that institutionalized it.  It may have cost him the Presidency, but he was correct on that point.

Razgovory

#57
January 12, 2013, 12:23:59 AM
Slavery doesn't require laws.  It predates governments.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#58
January 12, 2013, 02:32:46 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 11, 2013, 10:28:21 PM
I'm kind of with Raz, for me statist implies subordination of economy to the state's interests.

I don't think that's it.  A statist suggests that the positives of government control outweigh the negatives.

Sheilbh

#59
January 12, 2013, 06:14:59 AM
Doesn't 'government control' imply subordination? And in whose best interest?
Let's bomb Russia!
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