Question to Brits: which world war was a bigger trauma?

[Razgovory]

Not British but it I would guess WWI.  Many, Many more people died, for very little gain.  At least at the end of WWII it was clear that Germany wasn't going to get back up.

[PJL]

WWI was basically our Vietnam really. Actually much worse than that (imagine 2 million American dead). WW2 merely knocked us out while we were on one foot already.

[The Brain]

(imagine 2 million American dead).

Is katmai one of them?

[Neil]

WW1 led to the radicalization of British politics and the displacement of the Liberals with Labor as the main alternative to the Conservatives.  WW1 Chapter 2 simply reinforced that trend.

Yeah, grumbler has the right of it.  And while Britain was more extensively bombed in WWII, the bombing wasn't as bad as it was feared that it would be during the interwar period.  And the Great War had nearly 3 times the death toll as WWII.

[Neil]

On the other hand, the first war is seen as a slaughter pretty much from start to finish for no discernable gain or cause.

It's hard, because while the war started as being about the French and the Russians supporting the right of Serbins to murder whoever they like, it changed once the Germans invaded Belgium and the British joined the war.  It's a complicated little war.

[Agelastus]

I'm afraid I must add to the chorus that say WWI was the most traumatic experience.

I won't add to the above discussion really, merely cite some anecdotal evidence. Consider the war memorial in my home town; four sides, four plaques, 3 of them with about twice as many names listed as the fourth.

Guess which plaque relates to WWII?

[Valmy]

It's hard, because while the war started as being about the French and the Russians supporting the right of Serbins to murder whoever they like

It was a war started by Austria to support their crumbling regime

[Ed Anger]

Started by Serbs and thier Russian enablers you mean.

[Neil]

It's hard, because while the war started as being about the French and the Russians supporting the right of Serbins to murder whoever they like

It was a war started by Austria to support their crumbling regime

The key act was a Serbian-supported terrorist shooting the heir to the Empire.  Austrian policy for Serbia was less about destruction (although there were certainly elements that wanted Serbia destroyed, most notably Conrad), and more about containing them and especially keeping them from controlling the mouth of the Adriatic.

[CountDeMoney]

Started by Serbs and thier Russian enablers you mean.

Amen.  And damn if pan-slavism ain't the worst kind of slavism there is.

[Razgovory]

It's hard, because while the war started as being about the French and the Russians supporting the right of Serbins to murder whoever they like

It was a war started by Austria to support their crumbling regime

The key act was a Serbian-supported terrorist shooting the heir to the Empire.  Austrian policy for Serbia was less about destruction (although there were certainly elements that wanted Serbia destroyed, most notably Conrad), and more about containing them and especially keeping them from controlling the mouth of the Adriatic.

Yeah, I got the impression that Austria didn't want more Serbs in their country.  The ones they had were a pain the ass.  I don't think that Austria was crumbly as everyone says.  I mean, they managed to keep their country together until the end, unlike say the British which lost one of it's key possessions right after the war.

[Neil]

Pan-slavism wasn't really an intellectual movement though.  It's just a cover for Russian imperialism.

[Sheilbh]

World War I, by some distance.

I'd recommend Paul Fussel's The Great War and Modern Memory on this. He argues that despite suffering far fewer casualties than similar powers WWI the UK's experience had a greater cultural impact.

In addition to the points other people have made I think there's a few other aspects for why it lingered in the British memory. There was a particular horror at trench warfare, and especially at gas attacks. So in the same way as WW2 was for something and we were the good guys, there was more of a romance to it. WWI didn't feel like war but like slaughter. 60 000 dead on the first day of the Somme, over 400 000 in total for about 7 miles - or, roughly, a death per centimetre - isn't romantic.

As well as not fighting for anything I think there's also the sense that the army was let down - the myth of lions led by donkeys - while WW2 had heroes again like Monty and Churchill.

Also Europeans dying in their multitudes and being turned into machine parts for the state and total war were things that the Great War introduced after a long period of peace and I think for Britain WWI was still the worst experience of it. We didn't have blitzkrieg over the Downs, or occupation, or deportation.

I also think there's a cultural legacy which matters a great deal. Probably the most popular poems in Britain are those of the war poets.

Edit: Also I think all of European culture gets more sceptical about things like 'progress' or 'honour' or 'patriotism' after WWI. In most of Europe I think you get lots high modernism and the avant garde. That happens in Britain too but I think in this country nostalgia's another cultural legacy of WWI. You even see it in things like Downtown Abbey or other period dramas.

[grumbler]

Pan-slavism wasn't really an intellectual movement though.  It's just a cover for Russian imperialism.

Actually, I think it was a fig leaf the Russian crown used to justify its own legitimacy, badly damaged by 1905-06.  I'm sure that there were Russian officals who believed in it, but I don't think they were top-level ones.  Those at the top knew it was a facade.

[Valmy]

The key act was a Serbian-supported terrorist shooting the heir to the Empire.  Austrian policy for Serbia was less about destruction (although there were certainly elements that wanted Serbia destroyed, most notably Conrad), and more about containing them and especially keeping them from controlling the mouth of the Adriatic.

Yeah but the elements pushing for Serbian destruction, Conrad and Berchtold, were the guys driving the bus in 1914.  Austria really had Serbia by the balls after the assasination but they were not interested in half measures.  It was going to be war and really Russia had little choice in those circumstances.