The meaning of "Christmas"

[Valmy]

What's that "critical mass"? And what is it while it builds to that point? I mean, your own church is considered along the same lines. UU is, afterall, only a few decades old. Before it had more followers, what was it? Less "real"? Worthy of derision simply because it was new?

Well let's just say if I try to take off 'Girondin Day' I am going to be burning vacation hours until a certain number of people agree that it is a real Holiday.  Eventually there will be special 'Girondin Day' sales and cards as more people get on board.

[derspiess]

What's that "critical mass"? And what is it while it builds to that point? I mean, your own church is considered along the same lines. UU is, afterall, only a few decades old. Before it had more followers, what was it? Less "real"? Worthy of derision simply because it was new?

Well let's just say if I try to take off 'Girondin Day' I am going to be burning vacation hours until a certain number of people agree that it is a real Holiday.  Eventually there will be special 'Girondin Day' sales and cards as more people get on board.

Does Girondin Day have a special candle you light for Collective Work or Cooperative Economics like Kwanzaa?   What silly concepts to integrate into a holiday.

[merithyn]

A little disingenuous Meri.  The what that your response is disproportionate to is the this that you're asking how to handle.

The issue as I see it is how to respond when somebody rants about taking God out of Christmas.

I don't typically respond unless something is directly said to me. Then, I reply that the holidays mean something different to everyone, and if Christ is out of Christmas for them, then that's a personal issue that they need to take up for themselves. Otherwise, they probably should allow people to celebrate the season in a way that's meaningful to themselves, which may have very little to do with Christ.

But it's because that is my response that I cringe at using the term Christmas for my own celebrations. I don't see that as disproportionate. Rather, I still see that as the more respectful way to handle it.

[Ed Anger]

I should make up Davout day and celebrate killing Prussians.

[merithyn]

Well let's just say if I try to take off 'Girondin Day' I am going to be burning vacation hours until a certain number of people agree that it is a real Holiday.  Eventually there will be special 'Girondin Day' sales and cards as more people get on board.

I've worked at a number of places that allowed a set number of "floating holidays" (usually two or three). There were five set holidays (and yes, Christmas was one of those ) but the other days were to be used as you so chose. I think that is the better way to handle these kinds of situations. I've never understood getting Good Friday off work when Easter is just another Sunday to me. I'd rather have that day off for when it means something to me personally, like my anniversary or something like that.

[Valmy]

I've worked at a number of places that allowed a set number of "floating holidays" (usually two or three). There were five set holidays (and yes, Christmas was one of those ) but the other days were to be used as you so chose. I think that is the better way to handle these kinds of situations. I've never understood getting Good Friday off work when Easter is just another Sunday to me. I'd rather have that day off for when it means something to me personally, like my anniversary or something like that.

Those five set Holidays are regarded as "real" Holidays.  I am not presenting this as a problem, like ooooh there are made up things human society can make seem very real if enough people go along with it and WE MUST FIGHT TEH POWAH, but it is just so.  I think it is pretty awesome myself I love participating in human culture and society.

[Valmy]

Does Girondin Day have a special candle you light for Collective Work or Cooperative Economics?

These are the Girondins, we would be lighting candles to Federalism, Free Trade, and Republicanism.

[merithyn]

Those five set Holidays are regarded as "real" Holidays.  I am not presenting this as a problem, like ooooh there are made up things human society can make seem very real if enough people go along with it and WE MUST FIGHT TEH POWAH, but it is just so.  I think it is pretty awesome myself I love participating in human culture and society.

I find it interesting that you see it as not "FIGHTING TEH POWAH" and participating in human culture and society. To me, holidays are, well, primarily Holy Days. They serve a spiritual purpose for me. So just going along because everyone else does doesn't work for me. If it's a holiday, then I want to celebrate it for what it means to me, personally. I participate in human culture and society every day. I'm an active member in my community in many ways. I "go along" quite a bit. After all, I have children, and that entails a certain amount of going with the flow.

When it comes to my spirituality, however, I'm not as willing to bend. I have spent far too much time struggling with and trying to understand what works for me to just "go along". I could play the part, I suppose. Tell others that I celebrate Christmas as Christmas. But the truth of it bothers me immensely. It is, to me, something different, and in order to be true to myself, I have to accept and deal with that. Sometimes, that means going against the norm, and I'm pretty okay with that.

[derspiess]

Does Girondin Day have a special candle you light for Collective Work or Cooperative Economics?

These are the Girondins, we would be lighting candles to Federalism, Free Trade, and Republicanism.

I clarified my post-- I was actually mocking Kwanzaa.

[merithyn]

I think we caught what we saw as a logical inconsistency with you claiming not to celebrate Christmas while (from our perspective) celebrating Christmas.  You asked for our thoughts on the matter, and we gave them to you with both barrels

I was never in doubt where this thread would go, though I am surprised by a few of the responses. These kinds of threads do a good job of helping me solidify for myself what I'm thinking by having to define them to you guys. It's a huge part of why I start them.

And sorry about the "Hispanic" crack.  I was just trying to yank your chain a little & didn't mean to offend.

You did offend. Thank you for the apology.

[Valmy]

[I find it interesting that you see it as not "FIGHTING TEH POWAH" and participating in human culture and society. To me, holidays are, well, primarily Holy Days. They serve a spiritual purpose for me. So just going along because everyone else does doesn't work for me. If it's a holiday, then I want to celebrate it for what it means to me, personally. I participate in human culture and society every day. I'm an active member in my community in many ways. I "go along" quite a bit. After all, I have children, and that entails a certain amount of going with the flow.

When it comes to my spirituality, however, I'm not as willing to bend. I have spent far too much time struggling with and trying to understand what works for me to just "go along". I could play the part, I suppose. Tell others that I celebrate Christmas as Christmas. But the truth of it bothers me immensely. It is, to me, something different, and in order to be true to myself, I have to accept and deal with that. Sometimes, that means going against the norm, and I'm pretty okay with that.

Hmmmm I thought we had moved on to another topic here.

I do not see the distinction you are trying to make.  That the act of celebrating Christmas is not the same as believing something essential internally about Christmas.  I am not sure that is specifically agreed upon even in general society.  The fundy Christians have for centuries tried to turn Christmas into something more Jesus-centric.  They still remind us 'hey remember that Jesus guy?' South Park even had a joke about this where Jesus sacrifices himself to rescue Santa Clause so everybody decides they should dedicate Christmas to Jesus.

Anyway if I felt participating in these holidays required a specific thought pattern or beliefs I would probably feel the same way you do.  I just do not.

[Valmy]

Does Girondin Day have a special candle you light for Collective Work or Cooperative Economics?

These are the Girondins, we would be lighting candles to Federalism, Free Trade, and Republicanism.

I clarified my post-- I was actually mocking Kwanzaa.

Ah ok   I thought you were confusing them with the Jacobins.  But now that you explained it I get the joke

DId you see the Futurama Kwanzaa espisode where they celebrate the ancient 1,000 year history of Kwanzaa?

[CountDeMoney]

The fundy Christians have for centuries tried to turn Christmas into something more Jesus-centric.

For how many centuries, exactly?  Like, 16? 

[merithyn]

The fundy Christians have for centuries tried to turn Christmas into something more Jesus-centric.

For how many centuries, exactly?  Like, 16? 

Christmas isn't about Christ, Seedy. Get with the program.

[CountDeMoney]

Sorry, too busy picking out my new Kufi for Kwanzaa this year.