The meaning of "Christmas"

[merithyn]

You are wrong. You celebrate Christmas.

I prefer to say that I celebrate Yule, since the parts that I like are secular and historical in nature rather than Christmasy.

So I challenge the notion it is disinenguous to say you don't celebrate Christmas just because you don't do the whole Christ thing.  That part is pretty arbitrary anyway, as it is the symbolism of Jesus' birth that is the deal, not the fact that there is a 1/366 this may have been his birthday.

That's kind of what I keep in the holster in case anyone gets all shitty with me telling them "Merry Christmas".  I mean, you're accepting the day off from work, right?  Enjoy the day off if that's all Christmas means to you. 

I never get shitty with anyone says something nice to me. When someone says Merry Christmas, I reply with, "Thank you! And happy holidays to you, too!"

As for accepting the day off from work, I don't have a choice of which day I take off, just like I don't have a choice on what counts as a weekend. The company is closed; I don't work.

I'm not being bitchy about this. I was actually trying to be respectful to those who actually celebrate Christ's birth as the important part of the holiday. I don't celebrate Kwanza or Hannakah either, but no one gets uppity when I say that even though I have some blue and white decorations on my tree and light candles during the season.

[Valmy]

You are wrong. You celebrate Christmas.

I prefer to say that I celebrate Yule, since the parts that I like are secular and historical in nature rather than Christmasy.

Isn't the Yule the celebration when Odin drives all the spirits of the dead back into Hel?

[Eddie Teach]

Bah, humbug.

[merithyn]

I don't think Meri is under the impression she is being oppressed here guys as much as I appreciate your bomb throwing anarchism

No, no. If anything, it's more of a different justification for not saying/celebrating "Christmas". I find it disrespectful to Christianity to say that I am doing so when I'm really not, but that doesn't seem to be how Christians take it.

[viper37]

What says Languish on the subject?

That you should celebrate whatever you wish, and even of you chose not to celebrate our opinion of you would not change

Christmas as we know it is mostly a commercial holyday invented in the late 19th century.  People of the 17th century probably didn't celebrate Christmas with a tree&gifts.  Traditions changes, people changes.  If people are offended that you do not celebrate "Christmas", they are idiots, it's not their business.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I don't think Meri is under the impression she is being oppressed here guys as much as I appreciate your bomb throwing anarchism

No, no. If anything, it's more of a different justification for not saying/celebrating "Christmas". I find it disrespectful to Christianity to say that I am doing so when I'm really not, but that doesn't seem to be how Christians take it.

Its mainly just a pissup for them too; Easter might be more of a problem 

[Valmy]

Christmas as we know it is mostly a commercial holyday invented in the late 19th century.  People of the 17th century probably didn't celebrate Christmas with a tree&gifts.  Traditions changes, people changes.  If people are offended that you do not celebrate "Christmas", they are idiots, it's not their business.

If I am to believe Calvinist preachers they mostly celebrated it in the 17th century by eating, drinking heavily, and fornicating.

[merithyn]

Isn't the Yule the celebration when Odin drives all the spirits of the dead back into Hel?

So far as I know, it was what the ancient Germanic tribes called the month(s) of winter. There are a ton of stories that surround that month/time period, including the Odin one, but it wasn't what they called the story anymore than July is what we call the Independence War.

[derspiess]

I never get shitty with anyone says something nice to me. When someone says Merry Christmas, I reply with, "Thank you! And happy holidays to you, too!"

Now this I do not get.  Since it's pretty much established that the person wishing you a Merry Christmas celebrates Christmas himself, why would you not wish him a merry Christmas?  I don't celebrate Hanukkah but if I knew someone who did I'd be sure to wish them a happy one.  I even once wished a muslim acquaintance a happy Eid al-Fitr (boy did that throw him for a loop).

[Admiral Yi]

Now this I do not get.  Since it's pretty much established that the person wishing you a Merry Christmas celebrates Christmas himself, why would you not wish him a merry Christmas?  I don't celebrate Hanukkah but if I knew someone who did I'd be sure to wish them a happy one.  I even once wished a muslim acquaintance a happy Eid al-Fitr (boy did that throw him for a loop).

A thoughtful an interesting point.

For a terrorist lover.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'm ambivalent on it. I know an Asian couple (both Buddhist) that have bought into Christmas big time. They believe nothing supernatural about any historical Jesus and don't even really know anything firm about Christianity itself. When they first got married they both really liked the whole Christmas tree, presents, cards etc stuff. To me personally, as an actual Christian, I'm not offended at all if they say they are "celebrating Christmas." I recognize that since at least the 19th century a secular set of traditions and holidays have evolved making Christmas possibly the biggest (or at worst second biggest) of America's "secular holidays." I do know for some people (on both the Christian / non-Christian side) it creates awkwardness that society has basically continued to call the secularized version "Christmas" but I'm ambivalent.

If you're non-Christian and you like all the secular traditions associated with the holiday season, I'm fine with you saying you celebrate Christmas. If you're non-Christian and you want to celebrate the traditions but not call it Christmas, I'm fine with that too.

I notice that more with Jewish people I know than atheists, though. Most atheists I know are fine celebrating secular Christmas and are unconcerned with what anyone thinks about it. For some reason the Jews I know vary between "we'll do a lot of the Christmas stuff but won't dare call it Christmas" to "we will intentionally not do any of the Christmas stuff, and we'll glare at you if you even ask if we have a Christmas tree up." I'll admit to not entirely "getting" that. I read an article in the Atlantic where a Jewish parent said "he couldn't put up a Christmas tree, the symbol of the religion his ancestors had fought against assimilating into." But as Christian I think that's nonsense. Christmas is not our biggest holiday, the Christmas tree is not part of our religious celebration and etc. A Jew with a Christmas tree is about as Christian as a Jew with an Easter bunny.

[derspiess]

I don't think Meri is under the impression she is being oppressed here guys as much as I appreciate your bomb throwing anarchism

No, no. If anything, it's more of a different justification for not saying/celebrating "Christmas". I find it disrespectful to Christianity to say that I am doing so when I'm really not, but that doesn't seem to be how Christians take it.

I think you're just being pedantic about the term "Christmas".  In reality Christmas has become rather secularized in our culture and even those who celebrate the religious aspect of it still probably spend more time on the secular stuff. 

So how about getting with the program?  Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win? 

[Valmy]

Isn't the Yule the celebration when Odin drives all the spirits of the dead back into Hel?

So far as I know, it was what the ancient Germanic tribes called the month(s) of winter. There are a ton of stories that surround that month/time period, including the Odin one, but it wasn't what they called the story anymore than July is what we call the Independence War.

The joke was there was nothing secular about Yule.

Independence War?  Who calls it that?

[HVC]

Christmas as we know it is mostly a commercial holyday invented in the late 19th century.  People of the 17th century probably didn't celebrate Christmas with a tree&gifts.  Traditions changes, people changes.  If people are offended that you do not celebrate "Christmas", they are idiots, it's not their business.

If I am to believe Calvinist preachers they mostly celebrated it in the 17th century by eating, drinking heavily, and fornicating.

ahhh, traditions.

[merithyn]

I never get shitty with anyone says something nice to me. When someone says Merry Christmas, I reply with, "Thank you! And happy holidays to you, too!"

Now this I do not get.  Since it's pretty much established that the person wishing you a Merry Christmas celebrates Christmas himself, why would you not wish him a merry Christmas?  I don't celebrate Hanukkah but if I knew someone who did I'd be sure to wish them a happy one.  I even once wished a muslim acquaintance a happy Eid al-Fitr (boy did that throw him for a loop).

Well, most of the time I do if I know that they celebrate Christmas, but just because someone says Merry Christmas, it doesn't necessarily follow that they celebrate Christmas. After all, I've known Jewish people who default to that if they're somewhere that's primarily Christian. A lot of people default to that because they assume that the person they're talking to is Christian. I prefer not to assume that.