News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Baseball 2013

Started by jimmy olsen, December 12, 2012, 12:36:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

CountDeMoney


Syt

By comparison, the Pirates have been splurging, with signing Russell Martin (hopefully fixing the catching issues they've had for a while) and Francisco Liriano.

This time they may be in contention for a play-off spot till 4 weeks before end of the regular season. :P
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

CountDeMoney

The O's need another power bat, but they (rightfully) let Reynolds go, didn't want to play the Nick Swisher sweepstakes, and are hoping that, with Cody Ross signed by Arizona, either Justin Upton or more likely Jason Kubel might be available for trade.

I think the O's are hoping they could right the ship with all the players returning that missed so much playing time to injuries, but that's not a real strategy.

Syt

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 24, 2012, 07:32:04 AM
I think the O's are hoping they could right the ship with all the players returning that missed so much playing time to injuries, but that's not a real strategy.

Yeah, having no real depth and praying for the best for the regular starters seems a low chance of dominating. Especially with what's happening with the Blue Jays in that division.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

CountDeMoney

Thing is, all the player talks I've heard, everybody with a tradeable bat wants JJ Hardy in return, and that's just not happening.  O's have plenty of pitiching prospects to trade away, but so does everybody else.  And even though Manny Machado is the shortstop of the future, he's just fine in the hot corner playing next to Hardy.

The O's aren't going to sacrifice their best asset, infield defense, for a bat.  If they have to, they'll play small ball.

Sophie Scholl

Quote from: Razgovory on December 23, 2012, 07:10:51 PM
Man, it's to early to talk about Baseball.
Fuck that.  LFFL failed me, the Raiders have been out of contention for weeks, and there is no NHL.  Add in my favorite player (Nick Swisher) being signed by my favorite team (Cleveland), and I'm super pumped for this year of baseball to begin! :w00t:
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."

daveracher

This is going to be a good year to be a Jays fan!
Birdman of Burlington

Syt

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/sports/baseball/no-players-elected-to-baseball-hall-of-fame.html?smid=fb-nytimes&_r=0

QuoteVoters Shut Out Hall of Fame Candidates

In perhaps the most resounding referendum on the legacy of steroids in baseball, voters for the Hall of Fame rejected the candidacy of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens in voting announced Wednesday. For the first time since 1996, and the eighth time over all, no players received the necessary 75 percent of the votes from baseball writers.

Bonds won a record seven Most Valuable Player awards while setting the career and single-season records for home runs, and Clemens won a record seven Cy Young Awards, and an M.V.P., while surpassing 300 victories and 4,000 strikeouts. But both players were strongly tied to steroid use and received well short of the necessary votes for election.

The Hall of Fame will induct three new members in Cooperstown, N.Y., this summer — the umpire Hank O'Day, the owner Jacob Ruppert and a catcher, Deacon White. All three died in the 1930s and were voted in by the veterans committee in December. As a result, baseball will hold its annual Hall of Fame ceremony next July in an awkward context — without a single living honoree on stage.

The highest vote this time around went to Craig Biggio, who received 388 votes and was named on 68.2 percent of the ballots cast. Biggio, a former Houston Astro who ended his career with 3,060 hits, fell 39 votes short of election. Bonds, meanwhile, was named on 36.2 percent of the ballots and Clemens on 37.6 percent.

Another star from the steroids era, Sammy Sosa, who slugged 609 home runs and was reported by The New York Times to have tested positive for steroids in 2003, finished far behind. He was named on 12.5 percent of the ballots.

Every player on the ballot was active in the era before steroid testing, which began, with penalties, in 2004. But some have escaped suspicion, like Biggio, who fared well in his ballot debut and is likely to be inducted in the next few years.

Others, like the former Mets catcher Mike Piazza and the former Houston first baseman Jeff Bagwell, were muscle-bound sluggers in an era when many such players were taking steroids. They are viewed skeptically by some but have never been linked to performance-enhancing drugs, and both got more votes than Bonds and Clemens: 59.6 percent for Bagwell and 57.8 percent for Piazza in his first time on the ballot.

The player with the second highest percentage was Jack Morris, the former ace of the Detroit Tigers, the Minnesota Twins and the Toronto Blue Jays. He received 67.7 percent. It was the 14th appearance on the ballot for Morris, who has one more year of eligibility on the writers' ballot and faces a crowded field of candidates next year.

In addition to Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and the other holdovers, voters will consider a strong class of newcomers, including Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, Mike Mussina and Jeff Kent. All will be on the ballot that writers will receive in December 2013. Writers can vote for no more than 10 candidates.

Other top players who fell short of election Wednesday were Tim Raines (52.2 percent), Lee Smith (47.8 percent), Curt Schilling (38.8 percent, in his first time on the ballot) and Edgar Martinez (35.9 percent). Two members of the 500 home run club — Mark McGwire, an admitted steroid user, and Rafael Palmeiro, who failed a test in 2005 — received less than 20 percent of the vote.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Syt

Glad to see Hank O'Day gets some HoF loving, though. :)
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

CountDeMoney

Surprised Jack Morris didn't get the push over the 75% mark.

derspiess

I don't know if anyone on the ballot actually deserved to get in or not, but the whole process is screwed up.  Baseball writers are the most pretentious pieces of shit and giving them this much power only makes them worse.  I know the veterans committee is part of the process and I'm cool with that, but goddamnit I hate the writers. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: derspiess on January 09, 2013, 03:50:52 PM
Baseball writers are the most pretentious pieces of shit and giving them this much power only makes them worse. 

While I agree with this sentiment, the writers are not really the problem here.
All of the non-steroid era candidates are borderline at best, and the failure to admit from that group is not a great outrage.  The best of them is the Rock - and he increased his share to over 50%. I really think he should be in but leaving him off isn't like scratching the ballot for Mays, Mantle, Schmidt or Seaver (all of which some writers did in the past).
The problem is obviously the steroid era candidates and the writers collectively clearly have no idea how to handle them or what standard to apply.  So some are just ignoring the roids, some are voting no on anyone from the era who could be suspected, and some are using some sliding scale evidentiary standard somewhere in between.  The net effect is that it is basically impossible for anyone to get to 75%.

At some point either the Hall of Fame Board or the BBWAA has to address this issue squarely and provide clear standards.

My own view is that it is incongruous that people who are clearly among the very greatest to play the game are kept permanently out of the HOF.  Over time many have come to accept the exclusion of Shoeless Joe and Charlie Hustle whether because of the legalistic reasoning of their being on the MLB ineligible list, or because of the unique character of gambling, or because of inertia.  But it is one thing when it is just two guys.  It is another when you are at risk of situation where you can create an entire all star team from guys left out of the hall that would give a run for the money against the all-star team chosen from the Hall, and would probably whip a team chosen at random from Hall members.  At that point, the HOF ceases to have real meaning except as a way for us to express our collective contempt for a class of players at a certain time in history.

that's my 2 c but what's more important is that some clear standard be set one way or another.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Ed Anger

No Biggio? Fuck the HoF.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

The Minsky Moment

Here's a steroid-era all star-team - all of whom some question or rumor has been raised about at some time:

C: Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez
1B: Bagwell, Palmeiro, McGuire
2B: Jeff Kent
SS: ARod
3B:  Jim Thome, Adrian Beltre
OF: Bonds, Manny Ramirez, Gary Sheffield, Andruw Jones
DH: Big Papi
Starting Pitcher - Clemens
Relief Pitcher - Gagne

This team would probably beat the pants off a team selected randomly from a list of hall of famers at each position.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Sophie Scholl

I'm still waiting for NL Rickey to get in.  I blame Selig and the player's union as much as the individual players for the steroid era, so holding them responsible while giving other elements a free pass bothers me.  I'm not surprised this is how things worked out, just disappointed that it came to this.
"Everything that brought you here -- all the things that made you a prisoner of past sins -- they are gone. Forever and for good. So let the past go... and live."

"Somebody, after all, had to make a start. What we wrote and said is also believed by many others. They just don't dare express themselves as we did."