Outrage on the Web over NY Post photo capturing subway death

[jimmy olsen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/29/nyregion/man-pushed-to-his-death-under-train-in-queens.html

From that article:

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said that such attacks were exceedingly rare, but that statistics did not diminish the tragedy for the families of the victims.

"You can say it's only two out of the three or four million people who ride the subway every day, but two is two too many," he told reporters.

"I don't know that there is a way to prevent things," Mr. Bloomberg said. "There is always going to be somebody, a deranged person."

He added: "We do live in a world where our subway platforms are open, and that's not going to change."

Why not? It's not like they didn't change it elsewhere...

Yup, that's changed in Korea since I got here.

[garbon]

I am sure that engineers can retrofit precision brakes on trains. It's just a question of whether it is worth it politically.

A much more practical problem is that NYC doesn't have a single subway car type.  The same station can be serviced by both 10-car trains of 60 foot cars and 8-car trains of 75 foot cars.  Both 60 foot and 75 foot cars have four doors per side, so 10-car trains have 25% more doors and at different intervals.  That alone would be deal breaker.

Yeah the cost to standardize and align everything would be high.

[Tonitrus]

Exactly, all those other places have money, and clean subways that people care about looking neat and tidy.

[alfred russel]

Exactly, all those other places have money, and clean subways that people care about looking neat and tidy.

Also, places like south korea have real problems with a demographic crisis/falling birth rate. New York City is one of the largest cities in the world and people from all over want to move there. People are more replaceable.

[DGuller]

Exactly, all those other places have money, and clean subways that people care about looking neat and tidy.

As a point of comparison, Seoul's subway system opened in 1974.  NYC subway opened in 1904, and various rail lines that were absorbed into it operated even earlier than that.  It's a lot easier to start fresh than to keep polishing a turd.

[Tonitrus]

But why does Moscow get to have a much nicer looking turd?

[Zanza]

I am sure that engineers can retrofit precision brakes on trains. It's just a question of whether it is worth it politically.

A much more practical problem is that NYC doesn't have a single subway car type.  The same station can be serviced by both 10-car trains of 60 foot cars and 8-car trains of 75 foot cars.  Both 60 foot and 75 foot cars have four doors per side, so 10-car trains have 25% more doors and at different intervals.  That alone would be deal breaker.

So? If there was political will to take care of the issue, a solution would be found. It's not like New York's metro has the most modern trains anyway, so maybe it's time to switch those. Or build doors that can cope with both kinds of trains. America can send robots to Mars, so I am sure you'll figure out subway double doors if you really want to.

[Josquius]

I am sure that engineers can retrofit precision brakes on trains. It's just a question of whether it is worth it politically.

A much more practical problem is that NYC doesn't have a single subway car type.  The same station can be serviced by both 10-car trains of 60 foot cars and 8-car trains of 75 foot cars.  Both 60 foot and 75 foot cars have four doors per side, so 10-car trains have 25% more doors and at different intervals.  That alone would be deal breaker.

it's the same in Tokyo. lots of different train types with doors in different places. still Though work is underway (and going really slow, becoming a bit of a political issue) to install barriers.
there are ways. some more expensive types of barrier that can accommodate different train types. trying to keep consistent types of train on each line. only using certain doors at certain stations, etc...

[DGuller]

I am sure that engineers can retrofit precision brakes on trains. It's just a question of whether it is worth it politically.

A much more practical problem is that NYC doesn't have a single subway car type.  The same station can be serviced by both 10-car trains of 60 foot cars and 8-car trains of 75 foot cars.  Both 60 foot and 75 foot cars have four doors per side, so 10-car trains have 25% more doors and at different intervals.  That alone would be deal breaker.

So? If there was political will to take care of the issue, a solution would be found. It's not like New York's metro has the most modern trains anyway, so maybe it's time to switch those. Or build doors that can cope with both kinds of trains. America can send robots to Mars, so I am sure you'll figure out subway double doors if you really want to.

Are you being serious?  Are you really suggesting that NYC should replace virtually the entire rolling stock of its cars to prevent a couple of pushing deaths?

[The Minsky Moment]

The NYC subway system has 660 miles of operational track, 468 stations, and runs 24 hours a day, 7 days/week, 365/6 days per year.   It is only an NYC system: the commuter lines (which share funding with surrounding governments) are separate.  Because it is an amalgamation of completely separate former private systems, nothing is standard including platform length, even the "lines" are not fixed and change around pretty regularly, and the switching system is a nightmare.

Enormous sums are being expended now to maintain, upgrade and repair ancient infrastructure; rationalize and automate the lines, and complete a major new line on the east side of Manhattan that was originally planned in the 1950s.  So this kind of upgrade is not likely to be a priority for a while.

[DGuller]

But why does Moscow get to have a much nicer looking turd?

Because Stalin could keep shooting until the turd came out just right.

[jimmy olsen]

The NYC subway system has 660 miles of operational track, 468 stations, and runs 24 hours a day, 7 days/week, 365/6 days per year.   

24 hours a day? Wow, the subway shuts down in Seoul and Tokyo at 12 and then open at 5:30 and 5 respectively.

[Razgovory]

But why does Moscow get to have a much nicer looking turd?

Probably because it was built as a show piece, and built to be one organized whole instead of instead of several independent lines cobbled together under one system.

[Zanza]

Are you being serious?  Are you really suggesting that NYC should replace virtually the entire rolling stock of its cars to prevent a couple of pushing deaths?

No, I am suggesting that Mayor Bloomberg's statement that nothing can be done to prevent stuff like this is dishonest. It would be possible to do something, he just thinks it's not worth it.

[DontSayBanana]

Obvious answer, not an engineering "nightmare."  Set the barricade back from the lip of the platform, say 6-12 feet.  Barricade doors locked until a train is at the platform.

I'd just like to point out that most rail stations in the US don't even allow passengers on the platform until a train's loading/offloading passengers.