More fucking around with education

[Syt]

Btw, purely an anecdote, but while I liked reading as a child (strongly encouraged by my parents), I absolutely detested most things when presented with them during high school and earlier. Similar with history - they had a way of taking the joy of out of it.

I was a A to B student in German class, but during my last 5 years at school I didn't finish even one of the books, plays or novellas we were reading. I managed to bullshit myself through tests well enough. I've since read most of the books I shunned at the time.

I agree that it makes a huge difference whether you have to read something or want to read something.

[garbon]

"Small handful"? Seriously?

Seriously. While it might be grand to envision how public education can transform the lives of its pupils - for how many does it actually do so? Isn't the news constantly abound with stories of how social mobility has hit dispiriting lows in the western world?  If public schooling is supposed to be a great equalizer, it's doing an abysmal job.

[Ed Anger]

Time to homeschool my brats.

[Brazen]

I did English Language O level a year early then had the option to do English Lit or Film Studies AO level. Guess which I chose? 

I've read next to no classics, though I have read some great literature and seen many a Shakespeare play.

[Duque de Bragança]

French litterature classics are a part of the curriculum, especially in good high schools (for Entre les Murs-style schools it's Latin with past historic and subjunctive imperfect). Now, these 19th-early 20th century novels are not the easiest to read when you're between 12 and 15. Twenty years later, things change cf. Proust

[The Minsky Moment]

Among the suggested non­fiction pieces for high school juniors and seniors are Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America," "FedViews," by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco (2009) and "Executive Order 13423: Strengthening Federal Environmental, Energy, and Transportation Management," published by the General Services Administration.

The first selection is a fine idea but the other two are ridiculous and fairly raise the concerns expressed variously by warspite and Martinus.

"Fedviews" are terse pronouncements of Fed economists and require considerable background knowledge and understanding of underlying statistical compilation and some experience in Fed Kremlinology to really make use of.  Terrible choice for high schoolers.  The Executive Order cited is written in mind-numbing bureaucratese and for high school students is only useful as a sleep inducer.  And again, without an understanding of the underlying statutory and regulatory scheme, and the details of exeuctive branch management, the value that can be extracted is limited.

I am very skeptical of the use of a general eduction program to teach specific technical skills.  It would be different if we had a German-type system that tracked students into techical trades but requiring the mass of students to slog through regulatory promulgations on environmental policy doesn't make any pedagogical sense.

A more practical approach if one really wanted to go in that direction would be to give reading assignments from the Economist or the WSJ.

[Valmy]

I don't see why appreciation of literature cannot be combined with learning to write clearly.

I don't see why not either.  But if you have to choose one...

[Martinus]

Yes, it is a horrid, horrid idea, but just like everything else arts-related, they're slowly pulling funding for that sort of stuff anyway.  Everybody'll be proficient in Microsoft Project instead.

I'm still mad my highschool teachers spent hours teaching me such outdated things as Shakespeare's sonnets and Milton's "Paradise Lost". I would have been much better served by learning the cutting edge, up-to-date skills, like using DOS or replacing paper rolls in needle printers.

[Martinus]

I don't see why appreciation of literature cannot be combined with learning to write clearly.

I don't see why not either.  But if you have to choose one...

Then, I would say, all things considered, the great works of literature are more timeless than the art of writing which changes much more to reflect the times. Writing clearly and concisely is an entirely different skill in the era of instant communication, e-mail and twitter, than it was in the time of carrier pigeons.

[grumbler]

If we only teach students hard professional skills then we will effectively shut off ourselves from creating more artists and creative people.

If, and when, someone proposes this idea, you will be ready for them.  Until then, keep the straw man in the barn.

This is a horrid, horrid idea. I find it surprising so many people here are so thoughtless as to support it.

I'm surprised at how many people were so thoughtless as to bite on this troll.  It was a horrible, horrible troll because it was so obviously pulled out of your ass.  No one is proposing that we "only teach students hard professional skills."

[grumbler]

Lifespans and working lives are both getting longer and automation continues to take over relatively simple tasks. A youngster currently in school will probably still be working in 2060. Given that, it is a shame if they are being given training to be cogs in the 2012 workforce rather than a education.

Agree, and agree that it is a good thing that no one is proposing what you fear.

[viper37]

Yeah I was like...and the kids were riveted and entertained by The Scarlett Letter and Romeo and Juliet?

I was entertained reading Agaguk.  Treasure Island and Shogun were fun reading too.
But I had my best grades doing an expose on a book I never read

[mongers]

I had the large majority of my mandatory state eduction during the 1970s, on the whole a bit variable in quality, but overall rather good and a fun time, not the dreadful target driven bullshit laden modern system. 

[CountDeMoney]

I did English Language O level a year early then had the option to do English Lit or Film Studies AO level. Guess which I chose? 

The one that came with popcorn. 

[garbon]

I had the large majority of my mandatory state eduction during the 1970s, on the whole a bit variable in quality, but overall rather good and a fun time, not the dreadful target driven bullshit laden modern system. 

My education came in around the time that they'd started a lot of the state testing but it wasn't binding or enforced yet. My English (literature) was pretty free wheeling but still pretty dreadful. Turned me off on a lot of things that only latter did I come to enjoy.