New Quebec Language Law silliness: "Le Magasin Walmart"

Started by Barrister, November 19, 2012, 01:59:39 PM

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Zanza

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 23, 2012, 02:09:41 PM
It is the way those countries are governed, her representation in Parliament is as the monarch, it would be unfair for her to have the vote as well. It is the same with the UK House of Lords, their representation in Parliament is their vote in the Lords, so they are not allowed to vote in General Elections. All these people do get to vote in EU elections, local elections and so on though.
Having the right to vote in elections is not a criteria for being a citizen though, so whether she has that right or not isn't relevant. Or are kids not citizens in the UK?

dps

Quote from: Zanza on November 24, 2012, 10:46:50 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 23, 2012, 02:09:41 PM
It is the way those countries are governed, her representation in Parliament is as the monarch, it would be unfair for her to have the vote as well. It is the same with the UK House of Lords, their representation in Parliament is their vote in the Lords, so they are not allowed to vote in General Elections. All these people do get to vote in EU elections, local elections and so on though.
Having the right to vote in elections is not a criteria for being a citizen though, so whether she has that right or not isn't relevant. Or are kids not citizens in the UK?

Dictionary.com defines citizen (first definition) as:  "a native or naturalized member of a state or nation who owes allegiance to its government and is entitled to its protection.  And as BB pointed out, in the Queen doesn't technically owe allegiance to the government--she is the government.  On a practical level of course she isn't an absolute monarch, but look at how things are styled:  "Her Majesty's Government".

Zanza

Oxford Dictionary defines a citizen as "a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized". Clearly Elizabeth II is a legally recognized national of the United Kingdom, Canada etc.

And "Her Majesty's government" suggests that Her Majesty is indeed not the government, but rather that it is a distinct institution that may get its legitimacy from her, but is not her as a person.

Neil

Quote from: Zanza on November 24, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
Oxford Dictionary defines a citizen as "a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized". Clearly Elizabeth II is a legally recognized national of the United Kingdom, Canada etc.

And "Her Majesty's government" suggests that Her Majesty is indeed not the government, but rather that it is a distinct institution that may get its legitimacy from her, but is not her as a person.
And the law doesn't recognize her as a subject or national.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Zanza


Richard Hakluyt

Only subjects can be nationals and she is not a subject. I agree with this wiki answer :

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_queen%27s_nationality

A constitutional lawyer may differ of course  :P

Neil

I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Zanza

Care to quote the law? Because the British citizenship law does not seem to exclude her. Her parents, the Duke and Duchess of York were British nationals and citizens at her birth, so she should be one as well. Did she lose nationality and citizenship on coronation?

Neil

Quote from: Zanza on November 24, 2012, 01:00:21 PM
Care to quote the law? Because the British citizenship law does not seem to exclude her. Her parents, the Duke and Duchess of York were British nationals and citizens at her birth, so she should be one as well. Did she lose nationality and citizenship on coronation?
There is no law.  It's constitutional.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.