Presidential Election or Chinese C.P.Meeting, Which Will Prove More Significant?

Started by mongers, October 29, 2012, 04:43:29 PM

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Which of these two 'elections' will prove to be the most important historically ?

US Presidential / General Election 2012.
10 (34.5%)
Special 10 yearly Chinese C.P. Meeting
12 (41.4%)
About the same significant.
4 (13.8%)
Neither is of any importance (Jaron option)
3 (10.3%)
Don't know
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 29

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Jacob

#30
October 31, 2012, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2012, 09:00:51 PMBullets to the back of the head is more efficient than dealing with a House Select Committee.

You're sounding like Raz now.

Valmy

#31
October 31, 2012, 12:23:16 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 31, 2012, 11:34:34 AM
You guys are in an endless often meaningless election loop.

I do appreciate that we have a vast bipartisan consensus on most issues...yet are more polarized than ever.  So we have really ferocious elections about nothing.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

CountDeMoney

#32
October 31, 2012, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 31, 2012, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 29, 2012, 09:00:51 PMBullets to the back of the head is more efficient than dealing with a House Select Committee.

You're sounding like Raz now.

Right.  Because they just don't do that anymore.

Your increasing Sinosympathizing is irksome, Dances With Mao.  Your love of the yellow halflings' women has clearly slowed your mind.

Jacob

#33
October 31, 2012, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2012, 12:36:35 PMRight.  Because they just don't do that anymore.

Your increasing Sinosympathizing is irksome, Dances With Mao.  Your love of the yellow halflings' women has clearly slowed your mind.

It's simply that I'm more interested in what's actually happening in China than in your fevered fantasizing.

It's not the Cultural Revolution anymore. It seems like significant factions are trying to pull China back in that direction as part of their play for power. How that is playing out - see the Bo Xilai scandal and the nationalist protests against Japan - is fascinating. Your and Raz's ignorant stereotyping for lols are less so.

Kleves

#34
October 31, 2012, 01:26:27 PM
Well, the PRC does execute more people that anywhere else in the world. The US executes like 50 people a year, while China executes thousands, including for non-violent crimes. IIRC, the Chinese don't even announce who they have executed after they've done it (it's a state secret)*. So while they're not rounding people up and machine-gunning them in a ditch, it's not like the state is adverse to killing its own.


* Interestingly, I think Japan's the same way. In Japan, they do not announce who they will be executing ahead of time; each day at like 8:00am they come around and tell the inmates if they're going to die that day. The inmate gets, at most, a few hours warning. Apparently this has led to numerous people on death row in Japan going insane.
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

CountDeMoney

#35
October 31, 2012, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 31, 2012, 12:58:22 PM
It's not the Cultural Revolution anymore. It seems like significant factions are trying to pull China back in that direction as part of their play for power. How that is playing out - see the Bo Xilai scandal and the nationalist protests against Japan - is fascinating. Your and Raz's ignorant stereotyping for lols are less so.

Yeah, it's a fascinating spectator sport.

But I'm not going to buy into the whole "zomg they're changing from within" bullshit, simply because they've become increasingly flush with cash the last 20 years.  If anything, that makes party leadership even more reticent to reformation.  And they're still the biggest, meanest, nastiest totalitarian government on the planet.

derspiess

#36
October 31, 2012, 02:02:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2012, 01:44:34 PM
But I'm not going to buy into the whole "zomg they're changing from within" bullshit, simply because they've become increasingly flush with cash the last 20 years.  If anything, that makes party leadership even more reticent to reformation.  And they're still the biggest, meanest, nastiest totalitarian government on the planet.

That is all correct.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Jacob

#37
October 31, 2012, 03:15:41 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2012, 01:44:34 PMYeah, it's a fascinating spectator sport.

But I'm not going to buy into the whole "zomg they're changing from within" bullshit, simply because they've become increasingly flush with cash the last 20 years.  If anything, that makes party leadership even more reticent to reformation.  And they're still the biggest, meanest, nastiest totalitarian government on the planet.

I agree with you completely that the CCP is seriously messed up, and as a result, so is China. And I agree that there is little evidence that they're on the road to democracy and freedom.

That said, they have changed. The way things are fucked up now are different than how they were fucked up 25 or 50 years ago. Within the party, there is significant push for at least some reform (though personally I think it's likely that if they start serious reforms, it could well cause instability and collapse nonetheless), but there is also significant resistance; who is going to win isn't apparent IMO, and it will have significant repercussions (though it could just be a matter of which flavour of clusterfuck it will be).

Razgovory

#38
October 31, 2012, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 31, 2012, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2012, 12:36:35 PMRight.  Because they just don't do that anymore.

Your increasing Sinosympathizing is irksome, Dances With Mao.  Your love of the yellow halflings' women has clearly slowed your mind.

It's simply that I'm more interested in what's actually happening in China than in your fevered fantasizing.

It's not the Cultural Revolution anymore. It seems like significant factions are trying to pull China back in that direction as part of their play for power. How that is playing out - see the Bo Xilai scandal and the nationalist protests against Japan - is fascinating. Your and Raz's ignorant stereotyping for lols are less so.

What was so ignorant about my statement?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Jacob

#39
October 31, 2012, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 31, 2012, 05:09:23 PMWhat was so ignorant about my statement?

There's a significant power struggle going on in China right now and the stakes are rather high, both for the individuals involved and the country as a whole. You may not be able to perceive the differences between people like Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao, but they're there and they're real.

Razgovory

#40
October 31, 2012, 05:27:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 31, 2012, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 31, 2012, 05:09:23 PMWhat was so ignorant about my statement?

There's a significant power struggle going on in China right now and the stakes are rather high, both for the individuals involved and the country as a whole. You may not be able to perceive the differences between people like Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao, but they're there and they're real.


I wasn't aware that Bo Xilai was in the running to be one of the guys to run the country, what with the criminal charges against him.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

#41
October 31, 2012, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 31, 2012, 05:27:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 31, 2012, 05:16:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 31, 2012, 05:09:23 PMWhat was so ignorant about my statement?

There's a significant power struggle going on in China right now and the stakes are rather high, both for the individuals involved and the country as a whole. You may not be able to perceive the differences between people like Bo Xilai and Wen Jiabao, but they're there and they're real.


I wasn't aware that Bo Xilai was in the running to be one of the guys to run the country, what with the criminal charges against him.

That is the context which has given the story meaning.

Razgovory

#42
October 31, 2012, 05:53:19 PM
Yeah, it also seems to be a good reason not to consider him a contender anymore.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Jacob

#43
October 31, 2012, 05:54:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 31, 2012, 05:27:17 PMI wasn't aware that Bo Xilai was in the running to be one of the guys to run the country, what with the criminal charges against him.

:lol:

Razgovory

#44
October 31, 2012, 06:05:36 PM
Perhaps this is more funny in Danish.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017
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