Arkansas GOP: Against Abortion and For Child Murder

[Berkut]

Ban abortions.
Ban the death penalty.

Allow abortions -  because banning abortions just means desperate girls have their insides scraped with clothes hangers. Real sex ed and family planning is the way to reduce abortions as close as possible to nil. I am against abortion; it's just that the alternatives are not no abortion and legal abortion, the alternatives are back alley abortions or safe legal abortion

"Because someone will do it anyways" is not a good enough reason for legalizing something.

Uhh, actually understanding the practical and real limitations of laws and how they are implemented and the real world impact of their passage is in fact damn good reasons for not passing a law, or passing one, or whatever.

Laws that create solutions that are worse than the problem are bad laws, and in fact that is an excellent reason not to pass them.

[Viking]

Banning guns, just like abortion and narcotics, is only effective to the extent that individuals judge their need to be less pressing than the enforcement of the law. And unlike those other items, a true blanket ban is impossible, since the government depends on guns to enforce its ban on guns.

BTW, you people seriously need to stop electing judges.

[Grey Fox]

Ban abortions.
Ban the death penalty.

Allow abortions -  because banning abortions just means desperate girls have their insides scraped with clothes hangers. Real sex ed and family planning is the way to reduce abortions as close as possible to nil. I am against abortion; it's just that the alternatives are not no abortion and legal abortion, the alternatives are back alley abortions or safe legal abortion

"Because someone will do it anyways" is not a good enough reason for legalizing something.

Uhh, actually understanding the practical and real limitations of laws and how they are implemented and the real world impact of their passage is in fact damn good reasons for not passing a law, or passing one, or whatever.

Laws that create solutions that are worse than the problem are bad laws, and in fact that is an excellent reason not to pass them.

See : Prohibition

[DGuller]

Banning guns, just like abortion and narcotics, is only effective to the extent that individuals judge their need to be less pressing than the enforcement of the law. And unlike those other items, a true blanket ban is impossible, since the government depends on guns to enforce its ban on guns.

  That was positively Razian.

[merithyn]

"Because someone will do it anyways" is not a good enough reason for legalizing something.

I think laws should at least have some of their intended consequences. Banning abortion will not end the practice. Women have throughout history take sometimes life threatening risks to end pregnancies. Poison, Throwing themselves down stairs, clothes hangers and "doctors" renting rooms above chinese restaurants among them. Banning abortion will not end the practice, it will merely make it illegal and dangerous unless you are rich.

The way to end abortion is not to ban it, but rather to give girls and women access to family planning and sexual education. Pregnancy should come as a choice rather than a surprise.

Some things you can ban and they go away, e.g. guns. Other things don't go away no matter how much effort you put into banning them, e.g. narcotics.

"Because someone will do it anyways" is a good enough reason to look for other solutions to the problem. Legal (and thus) safe abortions solve the problem of backalley (and thus) unsafe abortions. Solving the problem of ending the life of potential humans is to give the mothers the emotional and physical resources they need to only get pregnant when they wish to and if the do get pregnant outside of that they have the support of society so that they can choose on their own. 

"safe abortion" is a strange phrase, as the child is still made to die.

A safe abortion is one where the mother doesn't die.

I do, however, understand that legal abortion is much more convenient.

No shit.

This is probably my favorite post of yours ever, Viking.

[Valmy]

The way to end abortion is not to ban it, but rather to give girls and women access to family planning and sexual education. Pregnancy should come as a choice rather than a surprise.

Yep.  Frustratingly a large percentage of those who oppose abortion also oppose the measures that would eliminate it.

[CountDeMoney]

Some things you can ban and they go away, e.g. guns.

I dunno, Europeans managed to do a job job legislating people out of cars, guns were nothing.

[Eddie Teach]

  That was positively Razian.

Raz at least makes counter arguments instead of dismissive attempts to be insulting. In essence Viking is saying that bans on guns work because fewer people have guns, but that bans on abortion don't work because some people still have abortions. Do you agree with that?

Edit- or maybe Viking actually believes some gun control laws are 100% effective, in which case I think he's being naive rather than illogical.

[DGuller]

  That was positively Razian.

Raz at least makes counter arguments instead of dismissive attempts to be insulting. In essence Viking is saying that bans on guns work because fewer people have guns, but that bans on abortion don't work because some people still have abortions. Do you agree with that?

Edit- or maybe Viking actually believes some gun control laws are 100% effective, in which case I think he's being naive rather than illogical.

The Razian part was the fact that government would still need to have guns, as if disarming the government is ever the goal of ban on arms.  It's a distracting non-counter-argument.

[Valmy]

Some things you can ban and they go away, e.g. guns.

Not in this country.  Nothing is more likely to lead to massive violent uprisings than a national ban on guns.  It just will not work here.

[Eddie Teach]

A government that's actually capable of disarming the populace is one that's invasive enough that the government itself is the problem.

[DGuller]

A government that's actually capable of disarming the populace is one that's invasive enough that the government itself is the problem.

Nonsense.  You don't need force to disarm the populace, you just need legitimacy.

[Razgovory]

  That was positively Razian.

Raz at least makes counter arguments instead of dismissive attempts to be insulting. In essence Viking is saying that bans on guns work because fewer people have guns, but that bans on abortion don't work because some people still have abortions. Do you agree with that?

Edit- or maybe Viking actually believes some gun control laws are 100% effective, in which case I think he's being naive rather than illogical.

The Razian part was the fact that government would still need to have guns, as if disarming the government is ever the goal of ban on arms.  It's a distracting non-counter-argument.

What is with everyone using me as a word?  I am not a a word, I am a human being.

[Valmy]

What is with everyone using me as a word?  I am not a a word, I am a human being.

Well Napoleon was a human being but people call his wars Napoleonic.  We refer to your internet campaigns as Razian.

[DGuller]

What is with everyone using me as a word?  I am not a a word, I am a human being.

Nothing personal, it's just a communication shortcut for me.