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The China Thread

Started by Jacob, September 24, 2012, 05:27:47 PM

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11B4V

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 26, 2013, 02:36:38 PM
B-52s.
Even Chinese radar won't miss those.

Monroe was bright enough to make sure the British were on board before making big declarations about exclusions.
PRC seems to have forgotten to check with USAF and USN.
yip

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/26/us-flies-bombers-over-disputed-islands-claimed-by-china/?intcmp=latestnews
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 26, 2013, 02:36:38 PM
PRC seems to have forgotten to check with USAF and USN.

Miscalculating the reactions of intended audiences in Chinese strategic thought is no new revelation. 

Good to see the US react so quickly, though.  Doesn't give the Chinese a sense of acceptance. 

The Washington is done in the Philippines, and the Nimitz is in the WestPac.  I wonder if their CVBGs will make minor detours in their cruise itineraries.


mongers

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 26, 2013, 02:36:38 PM
B-52s.
Even Chinese radar won't miss those.

Monroe was bright enough to make sure the British were on board before making big declarations about exclusions.
PRC seems to have forgotten to check with USAF and USN.

Yeah, possibly have the largest radar signature of any USAF combat aircraft ? :unsure:


"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Maximus

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 26, 2013, 02:44:41 PM
Miscalculating the reactions of intended audiences in Chinese strategic thought is no new revelation. 

Good to see the US react so quickly, though.  Doesn't give the Chinese a sense of acceptance. 

The Washington is done in the Philippines, and the Nimitz is in the WestPac.  I wonder if their CVBGs will make minor detours in their cruise itineraries.
According to the article I read the Washington is conducting joint exercises with the Japanese off Okinawa

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 26, 2013, 02:44:41 PM
Miscalculating the reactions of intended audiences in Chinese strategic thought is no new revelation. 

Could be a blunder, could be a probe to test will and commitment.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

Quote from: Barrister on November 26, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 26, 2013, 09:12:26 AM
Woah.  A ship with the Rising Sun flag.  That makes me feel surprisingly uneasy.

Rising Sun flag isn't like the Swastika - it's the traditional Japanese naval ensign IIRC.

I never said it was like the swastika, if they were waving swastikas there would be nothing surprising about it making me feel uneasy.

Of course to the Chinese and Koreans it is a bit Swastika-like.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Jacob

Quote from: Barrister on November 26, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 26, 2013, 09:12:26 AM
Woah.  A ship with the Rising Sun flag.  That makes me feel surprisingly uneasy.

Rising Sun flag isn't like the Swastika - it's the traditional Japanese naval ensign IIRC.

It is also the traditional flag of Japanese warcrimes in the eyes of its neighbours, I'm pretty sure.

mongers

Quote from: Jacob on November 26, 2013, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 26, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 26, 2013, 09:12:26 AM
Woah.  A ship with the Rising Sun flag.  That makes me feel surprisingly uneasy.

Rising Sun flag isn't like the Swastika - it's the traditional Japanese naval ensign IIRC.

It is also the traditional flag of Japanese warcrimes in the eyes of its neighbours, I'm pretty sure.

Good point and one of occupation, for a good deal longer than the countries the nazis dominated. 
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Tonitrus

#308
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 26, 2013, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 26, 2013, 02:36:38 PM
PRC seems to have forgotten to check with USAF and USN.

Miscalculating the reactions of intended audiences in Chinese strategic thought is no new revelation. 

Good to see the US react so quickly, though.  Doesn't give the Chinese a sense of acceptance. 

The Washington is done in the Philippines, and the Nimitz is in the WestPac.  I wonder if their CVBGs will make minor detours in their cruise itineraries.

If they do, at least there shouldn't be any crooked deals involved anymore!  :P

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/2nd-high-ranking-navy-officer-relieved-of-duty-as-bribery-probe-expands-1.244597

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Barrister on November 26, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 26, 2013, 09:12:26 AM
Woah.  A ship with the Rising Sun flag.  That makes me feel surprisingly uneasy.

Rising Sun flag isn't like the Swastika - it's the traditional Japanese naval ensign IIRC.
Tell that to a Korean and they will flip out and go on a ten minute rant on how they're exactly the same.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Valmy on November 26, 2013, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 26, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 26, 2013, 09:12:26 AM
Woah.  A ship with the Rising Sun flag.  That makes me feel surprisingly uneasy.

Rising Sun flag isn't like the Swastika - it's the traditional Japanese naval ensign IIRC.

I never said it was like the swastika, if they were waving swastikas there would be nothing surprising about it making me feel uneasy.

Of course to the Chinese and Koreans it is a bit Swastika-like.
If the Japanese were flying a Swastika it would just be odd.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

mongers

What's slightly odd is as well as the same flag, it's the same ruling family in Japan, did they drop the Imperial stuff ?

You could see how an typical Asian national/patriot might get a bit upset, rather like I'd imagine a Pole would who lived next to a modern Germany that still had the swastika or say Black cross as a flag, the exact same national anthem and the head of state was Hitler's son, but there wouldn't be anything to get upset about as it was now a constitutional monarchy. 
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Tonitrus

I think Hirohito was probably closer in status to the Kaiser in WW1 than to Hitler in WW2.

mongers

Quote from: Tonitrus on November 26, 2013, 07:52:31 PM
I think Hirohito was probably closer in status to the Kaiser in WW1 than to Hitler in WW2.

In some senses yes and I thought about that when I posted, but I think the over-riding similarity, as far as the victims were concerned, was everything was done in their names, be it the Fuhrer or the Emperor.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Tonitrus

Though Hitler certainly has much more notoriety. 

Even most brain-dead Americans can make the "Hitler?-WW2!-Nazis!" connection, whereas if you name-dropped Hirohito, you'd likely get a lot of blank stares.