The China Thread

[CountDeMoney]

Japanese and Taiwanese ships shot water cannon at each other Tuesday

Gay sailor wet t-shirt contests.  Super.

[Kleves]

China has launched its first aricraft carrier:  . Fortunately, it appears to be useless.

BEIJING — In a ceremony attended by the country's top leaders, China put its first aircraft carrier into service on Tuesday, a move intended to signal its growing military might as tensions escalate between Beijing and its neighbors over islands in nearby seas.

Officials said the carrier, a discarded vessel bought from Ukraine in 1998 and refurbished by China, would protect national sovereignty, an issue that has become a touchstone of the government's dispute with Japan over ownership of islands in the East China Sea.

But despite the triumphant tone of the launch, which was watched by President Hu Jintao and Prime Minister Wen Jiabao, and despite rousing assessments by Chinese military experts about the importance of the carrier, the vessel will be used only for training and testing for the foreseeable future.

The mark "16" emblazoned on the carrier's side indicates that it is limited to training, Chinese and other military experts said. China does not have planes capable of landing on the carrier and so far training for such landings has been carried out on land, they said.

Even so, the public appearance of the carrier at the northeastern port of Dalian was used as an occasion to stir patriotic feelings, which have run at fever pitch in the last 10 days over the dispute between China and Japan over the East China Sea islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

The carrier will "raise the overall operational strength of the Chinese Navy" and help China "to effectively protect national sovereignty, security and development interests," the Ministry of Defense said.

The Communist Party congress that will begin the country's once-in-a-decade leadership transition is expected to be held next month, and the public unveiling of the carrier appeared to be part of an effort to forge national unity ahead of the event.

For international purposes, the public unveiling of the carrier seemed intended to signal to smaller nations in the South China Sea, including the Philippines, an American ally, that China has an increasing number of impressive assets to deploy.

American military planners have played down the significance of the commissioning of the carrier. Some Navy officials have even said they would encourage China to move ahead with building its own aircraft carrier and the ships to accompany it, because it would be a waste of money.

Other military experts outside China have agreed with that assessment.

"The fact is the aircraft carrier is useless for the Chinese Navy," You Ji, a visiting senior research fellow at the National University of Singapore, said in an interview. "If it is used against America, it has no survivability. If it is used against China's neighbors, it's a sign of bullying."

Vietnam, a neighbor with whom China has fought wars, operates land-based Russian Su-30 aircraft that could pose a threat to the aircraft carrier, Mr. You said. "In the South China Sea, if the carrier is damaged by the Vietnamese, it's a huge loss of face," he said. "It's not worth it."

Up to now, Chinese pilots have been limited to practicing simulated carrier landings on concrete strips on land in Chinese J-8 aircraft based on Soviet-made MiG-23s produced about 25 years ago, Mr. You said. The pilots could not undertake the difficult maneuver of landing on a moving carrier because China does not yet have suitable aircraft, Mr. You said.

The question of whether China will move ahead and build its own carrier depends in large part, he said, on whether China can develop aircraft to land on one. "It's a long, long process for constructing such aircraft," he said.

In contrast to some of the skepticism expressed by military experts outside China, Li Jie, a researcher at the Chinese Naval Research Institute, said in an interview in the state-run People's Daily that the carrier would change the Chinese Navy's traditional mind-set and bring qualitative changes to its operational style and structure, he said.

Although the Chinese military does not publish a breakdown of its military spending, foreign military experts say the navy is less well financed than the army and air force.

[Razgovory]

In the meanwhile, Taiwan has decided to jump into the fray:

http://news.yahoo.com/japan-trades-words-china-water-taiwan-133522693--finance.html;_ylt=A2KLOzErzWFQtCAAZaDQtDMD

Japanese and Taiwanese ships shot water cannon at each other Tuesday in the latest confrontation over tiny islands in the East China Sea, as Japan met with another rival, China, in an effort to tamp down tensions.

About 40 Taiwanese fishing boats and 12 patrol boats entered waters near the islands on Tuesday morning, briefly triggering an exchange of water cannon fire with Japanese coast guard ships. Coast guard officials said the Taiwanese vessels had ignored warnings to get out of their territory, and the Taiwanese ships pulled back after being fired upon. (...)

That seems to be an ineffective means of combat.

[Jacob]

That seems to be an ineffective means of combat.

I dunno, seems pretty effective to me. Both parties get to mark their claim to the territories while minimizing the risk of accidentally killing nationals from the other side and seriously harming their relationship.

[Razgovory]

They already marked their claim.  You can do that with just pen and a map.  Shooting at each other with water hoses means they'll be back next week doing the same thing, week after week.  Until someone shows up with a real cannon.

[Jacob]

They already marked their claim.  You can do that with just pen and a map.  Shooting at each other with water hoses means they'll be back next week doing the same thing, week after week.  Until someone shows up with a real cannon.

That's not how it works Raz, a pen and a map is not enough.

You have to physically patrol the territory to maintain the claim.

[Eddie Teach]

China has launched its first aricraft carrier:  . Fortunately, it appears to be useless.

So they're 70 years behind the US and Japan?

[Razgovory]

They already marked their claim.  You can do that with just pen and a map.  Shooting at each other with water hoses means they'll be back next week doing the same thing, week after week.  Until someone shows up with a real cannon.

That's not how it works Raz, a pen and a map is not enough.

You have to physically patrol the territory to maintain the claim.

With big squirt guns?

[mongers]

A look at part of China's material culture:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19648095

[Ed Anger]

A look at part of China's material culture:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19648095

Weak. My stash is larger. My tp supply is worth double of their inferior electronics.

[Jacob]

A look at part of China's material culture:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19648095

... you do know that I posted that already, right?

[mongers]

A look at part of China's material culture:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19648095

... you do know that I posted that already, right?

Info overload, I click on so many links a day, I forget I've already seen it. 

[BVN]

The title of the article says it all... 

http://www.infowars.com/man-crushed-by-road-flattening-truck-on-orders-of-chinese-officials/

[Jacob]

Here's your chance for US$65million: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19733003
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/tycoon-offers-63-million-to-any-man-who-marries-lesbian-daughter/article4569747/?service=mobile

All you have to do is woo the woman in this picture and marry her:



If you do, the man in the picture - her father - will pay you the bounty.

[Eddie Teach]

Malthus told me that one was the daughter's wife. I should have known better than to trust a lawyer.