Romney: 47% of Americans are losers, don't care about 'em

[crazy canuck]

Would someone please explain the difference between payroll and income taxes to an ignorant furriner?

Payroll taxes are things like FICA : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Insurance_Contributions_Act_tax  They cover Medicare, Social Security and other contributions.  These aren't progressive and, instead, are really a form of flat income-tax.

Income taxes are our form of progressive, multi-bracket taxes on earnings that scale based upon income and are levied on top of FICA taxes.

Payroll taxes aren't really flat though--they're regressive, because they're capped at the first $100,000 or so of gross income (see the link in Habbaku's post for the exact dollar figure and more details).

Again, another characteristic of payroll taxes across jurisdictions it seems.

[dps]

Would someone please explain the difference between payroll and income taxes to an ignorant furriner?

Payroll taxes are things like FICA : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Insurance_Contributions_Act_tax  They cover Medicare, Social Security and other contributions.  These aren't progressive and, instead, are really a form of flat income-tax.

Income taxes are our form of progressive, multi-bracket taxes on earnings that scale based upon income and are levied on top of FICA taxes.

Payroll taxes aren't really flat though--they're regressive, because they're capped at the first $100,000 or so of gross income (see the link in Habbaku's post for the exact dollar figure and more details).

Again, another characteristic of payroll taxes across jurisdictions it seems.

Yeah, and to address a point you made earlier about them affecting the employer's bottom line--if you're not familiar with how US federal taxes work, the income tax on employees incomes doesn't really affect the employer at all--the employer simply withhold the appropriate amount from the employee's paycheck.  SS tax, those does affect the bottom line, because half of it is essentially hidden from the workers--the employer is assessed a tax equal to that withhelf from the employee's paycheck.  In other words, the SS tax is actually twice as high as it seems to be, because half of it is paid by the employer.

[Habbaku]

Would someone please explain the difference between payroll and income taxes to an ignorant furriner?

Payroll taxes are things like FICA : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Insurance_Contributions_Act_tax  They cover Medicare, Social Security and other contributions.  These aren't progressive and, instead, are really a form of flat income-tax.

Income taxes are our form of progressive, multi-bracket taxes on earnings that scale based upon income and are levied on top of FICA taxes.

Payroll taxes aren't really flat though--they're regressive, because they're capped at the first $100,000 or so of gross income (see the link in Habbaku's post for the exact dollar figure and more details).

Right.

[merithyn]

Yeah, and to address a point you made earlier about them affecting the employer's bottom line--if you're not familiar with how US federal taxes work, the income tax on employees incomes doesn't really affect the employer at all--the employer simply withhold the appropriate amount from the employee's paycheck.  SS tax, those does affect the bottom line, because half of it is essentially hidden from the workers--the employer is assessed a tax equal to that withhelf from the employee's paycheck.  In other words, the SS tax is actually twice as high as it seems to be, because half of it is paid by the employer.

This is exactly what killed my job with The Toffee Lady. She could afford to pay my salary. What she couldn't afford were all the taxes that came with it. We discussed lowering my salary, but it didn't lower the taxes enough to make it worthwhile.

[Jacob]

Do you really think america has 140,000,000 seniors and disabled people or are you just a full time troll now?

If you're going to be outraged about the number lazy non-tax paying drains on society gleefully sucking off the tit of welfare, you should probably not include people in the total if, you know, you don't want them to be included in the total. It seems intellectually dishonest. So the 47% number isn't going to fly if you're not including seniors, the disabled, soldiers in combat zones etc in the target of your ire.

are you not the least bit bothered that the class of federal income tax payer has been reduced to just 53% of the population and there are calls to tax these people more?

Why would that bother me? Why is 53% so bad? Is it some sort of historic low?

do you not understand that when you raise taxes on a guy that can chose who to hire and fire and to whom to give raises or ask for salary or benefit decreases that in the end you actually pass the pain right back to those 47%?

No, I do not understand that.

But if you believe that, why are you complaining? You are going to pass the pain on to the people who are working for you anyways.

It is very noble of you, however, to be concerned about the negative impact on poor people of an increase in your personal tax burden.

or instead are you just too busy being outraged that mitt only paid 14% of his gross income to notice that that means mitt paid 2,800,000 in income taxes to a bloated federal government that cannot get out of its own way?

We don't know what Mitt's been paying in taxes, do we?

As for complaining about a "bloated federal government" I don't give that much weight at all. Now, if you're willing to talk about specific reductions that you believe are feasible to make, then that has some meaning; but "bloated federal government" is purely emotive hot air.

[CountDeMoney]

Lemonjello keeps his bullion anchored under his boat.

[Eddie Teach]

This is exactly what killed my job with The Toffee Lady. She could afford to pay my salary. What she couldn't afford were all the taxes that came with it. We discussed lowering my salary, but it didn't lower the taxes enough to make it worthwhile.

Is Toffee Lady still in business?

[dps]

Do you really think america has 140,000,000 seniors and disabled people or are you just a full time troll now?

If you're going to be outraged about the number lazy non-tax paying drains on society gleefully sucking off the tit of welfare, you should probably not include people in the total if, you know, you don't want them to be included in the total. It seems intellectually dishonest. So the 47% number isn't going to fly if you're not including seniors, the disabled, soldiers in combat zones etc in the target of your ire.

I think his point was that seniors and the disabled don't make up all the 47%, or even the majority of them, and he thought that you were suggesting that they did.

[garbon]

OMG, now we know what Romney paid in taxes!

[Razgovory]

Do you really think america has 140,000,000 seniors and disabled people or are you just a full time troll now?

If you're going to be outraged about the number lazy non-tax paying drains on society gleefully sucking off the tit of welfare, you should probably not include people in the total if, you know, you don't want them to be included in the total. It seems intellectually dishonest. So the 47% number isn't going to fly if you're not including seniors, the disabled, soldiers in combat zones etc in the target of your ire.

I think his point was that seniors and the disabled don't make up all the 47%, or even the majority of them, and he thought that you were suggesting that they did.

He's also conflating two things.  People who collect government assistance and people who don't pay Federal income tax.  It's entirely possible that someone doesn't pay federal income tax and doesn't get government assistance.  It's also possible that someone does pay Federal income tax and does get government assistance.

[merithyn]

This is exactly what killed my job with The Toffee Lady. She could afford to pay my salary. What she couldn't afford were all the taxes that came with it. We discussed lowering my salary, but it didn't lower the taxes enough to make it worthwhile.

Is Toffee Lady still in business?

For the time being. She's been looking to sell for months, and she has a full-time job on top of working the toffee place. She is: tired.

[CountDeMoney]

OMG, now we know what Romney paid in taxes!

For 2011, when he, his lawyers and accountants knowingly operated under the assumption of a presidential run?  Meh, who cares.

The tax returns from when he wasn't running for office would be much more interesting and enlightening.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, and to address a point you made earlier about them affecting the employer's bottom line--if you're not familiar with how US federal taxes work, the income tax on employees incomes doesn't really affect the employer at all--the employer simply withhold the appropriate amount from the employee's paycheck.  SS tax, those does affect the bottom line, because half of it is essentially hidden from the workers--the employer is assessed a tax equal to that withhelf from the employee's paycheck.  In other words, the SS tax is actually twice as high as it seems to be, because half of it is paid by the employer.

Yeah, that was my point.  Payroll taxes directly hit the employers bottom line and make employing someone that much more expensive.

[CountDeMoney]

"Stop it. This is hard. You want to try it? Get in the ring.
This is hard and, you know, it's an important thing that we're doing right now and it's an important election and it is time for all Americans to realize how significant this election is and how lucky we are to have someone with Mitt's qualifications and experience and know-how to be able to have the opportunity to run this country."
--Ann Romney, First Lady candidate

[derspiess]

"For the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country."
--Michelle Obama, First Lady