25 years old and deep in debt

[Malthus]

Indeed.  And people like you--i.e., successful lawyers--is why there's a glut in the field.  It involves comparatively less rigorous education, but--until recently--it was believed to provide rewards out of proportion to that education.

Now the reality has come to light that ever since the 1990s JDs have become increasingly devalued (at the same time they became more expensive, thanks to Grad PLUS loans), and that the top flight rewards you represent have perhaps always been an anomaly, and are certainly not the norm today.

But anyway, at least both of us help pharmaceutical companies defend themselves from the slings and arrows of predatory plaintiff's attorneys.

Although for my part I more just take their money because courts force them to, than I "help" them, I guess.

Way it is controlled in Canada, or at least was until recently, is that you needed to get into a good law school (which was very competitive) and you needed to get a good articling position (also very competitive) to get a shot at the big money jobs. That has always been true. So it wasn't like you could just get any old legal education and earn the big bucks - unless you were entreprenurial and could develop your own practice. But hey, entrepreneurs can earn the big rewards without any formal education.

The notion that one could drift into an easy law degree and be rewarded with big money was always a myth.

I doubt it works that way with STEM education, either.

Starting salaries for lawyers who get jobs in law firms are still very strong in Canada.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/financial-road-map/advmanulife/advmanulifearchives/top-20-starting-salaries/article4505934/

Fact is, though, that those jobs have never been universally available. 

[Barrister]

Indeed.  And people like you--i.e., successful lawyers--is why there's a glut in the field.  It involves comparatively less rigorous education, but--until recently--it was believed to provide rewards out of proportion to that education.

Now the reality has come to light that ever since the 1990s JDs have become increasingly devalued (at the same time they became more expensive, thanks to Grad PLUS loans), and that the top flight rewards you represent have perhaps always been an anomaly, and are certainly not the norm today.

But anyway, at least both of us help pharmaceutical companies defend themselves from the slings and arrows of predatory plaintiff's attorneys.

Although for my part I more just take their money because courts force them to, than I "help" them, I guess.

Way it is controlled in Canada, or at least was until recently, is that you needed to get into a good law school (which was very competitive) and you needed to get a good articling position (also very competitive) to get a shot at the big money jobs. That has always been true. So it wasn't like you could just get any old legal education and earn the big bucks - unless you were entreprenurial and could develop your own practice. But hey, entrepreneurs can earn the big rewards without any formal education.

The notion that one could drift into an easy law degree and be rewarded with big money was always a myth.

I doubt it works that way with STEM education, either.

Starting salaries for lawyers who get jobs in law firms are still very strong in Canada.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/financial-road-map/advmanulife/advmanulifearchives/top-20-starting-salaries/article4505934/

Fact is, though, that those jobs have never been universally available.

They're all good law schools in Canada.

[The Brain]

If the liberal arts are taught badly and the qualifications are too easy to get, that reflects on how they are taught and how the qualifications are obtained, not on the value of liberal arts themselves. The same holds true for the STEM fields, by the way.

We have the liberal arts and STEM educations we have, not the ones we wish we had. You could do liberal arts seriously and they could be great, but that's not gonna happen.

[Jacob]

No way the average first year salary of a mobile apps developer (#7 on the list) is $72K/year in this country.

Maybe if they have plenty of experience as developers of things other than mobile apps, and then switch over to mobile apps and for the purpose of the survey are still counted as "first year". Maybe.

I'm pretty sceptical about their numbers for #6 (web dev/UI designer). I'd expect to be paying a fresh grad something like $35-40K year; maybe as high as $50K if he or she had amazing credentials and lots of offers. Not $80K; no way.

[Neil]

No, I think there is an objective component.  Clearly being able to do calculus and being able to read are two very different skills, and one is rarer and more valuable than the other.

The point of a liberal arts education is not "to read"; it is to construct and clearly articulate an argument, to do so on a solid foundation of research and inquiry, and to cogently evaluate the arguments of others.

That's not very valuable either.  Why would you ever want to clearly articulate anything?

[Neil]

BTW:  My heart doesn't bleed for lawyer scum.

[Barrister]

BTW:  My heart doesn't bleed for lawyer scum.

Just for that I'm not picking up your cheque tonight.

[CountDeMoney]

You could do liberal arts seriously and they could be great, but that's not gonna happen.

It happens all the time.  Just depends on the institution.

[Malthus]

They're all good law schools in Canada.

[Makes obvious comment about U of M] 

[The Brain]

You could do liberal arts seriously and they could be great, but that's not gonna happen.

It happens all the time.

Nah.

[Neil]

BTW:  My heart doesn't bleed for lawyer scum.

Just for that I'm not picking up your cheque tonight.

It's OK.  I have:  Money.

[CountDeMoney]

You could do liberal arts seriously and they could be great, but that's not gonna happen.

It happens all the time.

Nah.

The Jesuits disagree.

[Malthus]

No way the average first year salary of a mobile apps developer (#7 on the list) is $72K/year in this country.

Maybe if they have plenty of experience as developers of things other than mobile apps, and then switch over to mobile apps and for the purpose of the survey are still counted as "first year". Maybe.

I'm pretty sceptical about their numbers for #6 (web dev/UI designer). I'd expect to be paying a fresh grad something like $35-40K year; maybe as high as $50K if he or she had amazing credentials and lots of offers. Not $80K; no way.

Come to think about it, you are right - those are way high.

That's what I get for posting the flawed work product of that reviled profession - journalism. 

[Phillip V]

Student debt defaults soar

Recent college students are defaulting on federal loans at the highest rate in nearly two decades, reflecting "crisis" levels of student debt and a lackluster economy that leaves graduates with bleak employment prospects.

One in ten (10%) recent borrowers defaulted on their federal student loans within the first two years, the highest default rate since 1995, according to annual figures made public Monday by the Department of Education.

A separate gauge, measuring defaults occurring within the first three years of required payments, showed that more than one in seven (14.7%) borrowers with federal student loans went into default, an event that can trigger invasive debt-collection methods that include fees, wage garnishments, and withheld IRS tax refunds.

"The growing number of students who have defaulted on their federal student loans is troubling," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said. Duncan said the department will work to "ensure that student debt is affordable."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/30/student-loans-default_n_4019806.html

[Caliga]

Duncan said the department will work to "ensure that student debt is affordable."

How, exactly?