25 years old and deep in debt

[Fate]

Haven't most reputable studies in the last 15 years shown that affirmative action at the elite schools just tends to help wealthy minorities who already had significant advantages in life, and at the lower tier schools it often results in the less wealthy minorities getting into schools beyond what their upbringing or primary/secondary education prepared them for and thus they end up with massive first/second semester college drop out rates?

Interestingly I read one of the best systems so far demonstrated was at the University of Texas. They have a program where every student in the top 10% of the graduating class from any public high school in the state of Texas gets in, period. What this means, is the high schools in heavy black (or more common in Texas) heavy Hispanic neighborhoods are guaranteed to get at least a few students who have the option to go to UT--one of the best schools in the country. What this has lead to is a lot of the kids who precisely should have such an opportunity, poor minorities who excel in their own surroundings but are missing on most advantages available to the wealthy, end up going to a very good school and doing well there. (There is a lot more controversy about how UT handles its non 10%er admissions, as they use a racial preference criteria that has resulted in a white student suing the university. I believe that case was recently argued before the SCOTUS but yet to be ruled on.)

But in general I think "dumb" racial "points" systems where race gets you a bonus in admissions is vastly inferior to a system that gives you bonuses based on socioeconomic background. That tends to cover kids both majority and minority that are disadvantaged unfairly, and will obviously disproportionately help minorities who are more likely to be poor, but without giving an unfair boost to wealthy minorities or an unfair penalty to impoverished whites.

I totally abused the 10% rule to get into UT Austin. I was one of three white kids at my inner city Houston, majority black high school. Thank you, pseudo-affirmative action.

[CountDeMoney]

I totally abused the 10% rule to get into UT Austin. I was one of three white kids at my inner city Houston, majority black high school. Thank you, pseudo-affirmative action.

That's not abuse.  That's playing the odds.
As Jimmy the Greek would say, "But that's the way to bet."

[Caliga]

I don't think quiz team members have any room to criticize 

[CountDeMoney]

Fucking mathlete.

[Ideologue]

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-jobs-crisis-at-our-best-law-schools-is-much-much-worse-than-you-think/274795/

The Jobs Crisis at Our Best Law Schools Is Much, Much Worse Than You Think
More than a fifth of students from some top-tier programs are underemployed.
Jordan Weissmann Apr 9 2013, 9:45 AM ET

The barren job market for law school grads has become a familiar reality by now. But here's something that tends to get lost in the story: The problem isn't just about no-name law schools churning out JD's nobody wants to hire. Even graduates at some of the country's top programs are struggling.

At this point, it seems, there are only a small handful of schools that could reasonably be called safe bets.

The American Bar Association recently released its annual collection of jobs placement data from all 202 accredited law schools, and the big picture was, as expected, dreadful. Nine months after graduation, just 56 percent of the class of 2012 had found stable jobs in law -- meaning full-time, long-term employment in a position requiring bar passage, or a judicial clerkship, i.e. the sorts of jobs people go to law school for in the first place. The figure had improved just 1 percent compared to the class of 2011.

Meanwhile, a full 27.7 percent were underemployed, meaning they were either in short-term or part-time jobs, jobless and hunting for work, or enrolled (read: burning cash) in another degree program.

At some of the most prestigious law schools in the country, the numbers were only marginally better. Below, I've listed the top 25 programs in the U.S. News rankings,* along with their underemployment score as calculated by Law School Transparency. Past the top 9, underemployment hits double digits. Outside of the top 15, it mostly hovers around 20 percent.*
Law_School_Underemployment_US_News_Top_25_4Fixed4.JPG


Could this just be a sign the U.S. News rankings are way off and don't really reflect the job market? In part, yes. The magazine's annual list does incorporate employment outcomes as part of its formula, and some law firms pay an absurd amount of attention to it. But after going back through the data and ranking the 25 schools with the lowest underemployment, I found that only 15 of them could be found in the U.S. News Top 25. The other 10 included schools like number #76 LSU and number #126 Campbell University.

Law_School_Underemployment_25_Lowest_Orange.JPG

In the end, though, the numbers are still bad no matter how you define the "good schools." Only 31 institutions had an underemployment rate under 15 percent. Just 66, or less than a third, have an underemployment rate below 20 percent.* And in some cases, the numbers actually obscure just how tough the market is. Many schools have taken to hiring their own graduates, or funding fellowships for them to help smooth their transition into the working world. One of the big reasons the University of Virginia has the lowest underemployment ranking is that 15 percent of its graduates are in jobs funded by the school. That's a heck of a lot better than leaving them out to dry, and some of those fellowships, which include jobs on Capitol Hill and with nonprofits, will likely lead to bigger and better opportunities. But it gives you a sense of the challenges grads -- and their schools -- are facing.

If we were talking about undergraduate students, these numbers wouldn't seem quite as awful. But JD's consistently dive six figures into debt and give up three years of other opportunities for an education that prepares them with a very specific, not-so-easily transferred skill set (please forget the old saw that "you can do anything with a law degree"). There are some schools where the investment practically always pays off -- a Harvard or University of Virginia degree is still looking good these days -- but at many schools, reputation trumps results.

Bar card = ticket to Thunderdome.  It does not matter, with very and increasingly few exceptions, what school you went to.

[Neil]

Good.  The lawyers deserve to suffer what was inflicted on everyone else.

[Ideologue]

Can we not repent?

[Neil]

Can we not repent?

No.  So as you have sowed, so shall you reap.

[Ideologue]

Well, do you have any positions open for a kapo?

[Neil]

Well, do you have any positions open for a kapo?

It's not going to be that orderly.  Justice should be a community project.

[Phillip V]

All this debt really limits the pool of potential spouses.

And then well-off people just marry other well-off people, increasing the wealth gap.

[CountDeMoney]

But the Nasdaq, DJIA and S&P all set new records this week.  So there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

[Caliga]

But the Nasdaq, DJIA and S&P all set new records this week.  So there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

My portfolio.

[MadImmortalMan]

Actually, the market high is something to worry about in my mind. It seems to be built on nothing.

[CountDeMoney]

Actually, the market high is something to worry about in my mind. It seems to be built on nothing.

Doesn't matter. 
The ability of the wealthy to become even wealthier with their fixed gambling scheme and the few crumbs they toss house niggers like Cal and his portfolio along the way to convince that they're actually relevant to the big picture is the only true measure of our national economic health.