Mesoamerican civilizations compared to early Mesopotamia

[jimmy olsen]

Mesoamerican civilizations such as the Aztecs and the Maya seem to have been much more advanced to me than the Neolithic civilizations of the Fertile Crescent (I don't know anything about the neolithic civilizations of India or China). Mesopotamia didn't have a city as large as Tenochtitlan until Babylon well into the Bronze Age. Teotihuacan and Tikal were also larger (depending on the estimates perhaps significantly so) than any of the cities of Sumer.

Am I just being influenced by the fact that we have lot more information on the comparatively recent Mesoamerican civilizations, or was there a significant gap in technology and social complexity? If so, why? The Americas were lacking in a lot resources that the Old World had, which is why the neolithic civilizations of the Old World eventually transitioned to the Bronze Age and beyond. Why were the Mesoamericans able to build much larger polities? Alternately, why couldn't the Mesopotamian cities grow as large?

[Valmy]

Well one Sumer was a much smaller geographical area.  Secondly didn't Pre-Columbian American lack the sorts of diseases the Old World civilizations had to deal with?

[Syt]

Well one Sumer was a much smaller geographical area.  Secondly didn't Pre-Columbian American lack the sorts of diseases the Old World civilizations had to deal with?

One swallow does not a Sumer make?

[Razgovory]

The Aztecs and Mayan really weren't "Neolithic".  They had stone cities and metal working.

[The Brain]

  The shared "Meso" doesn't mean the civilizations share stuff on some deeper level. Differences between things thousands of years and thousands of miles apart are perfectly normal.

[jimmy olsen]

The Aztecs and Mayan really weren't "Neolithic".  They had stone cities and metal working.

They were Chalcolithic at best, almost all of their tools were made from stone.

[The Brain]

The Aztecs and Mayan really weren't "Neolithic".  They had stone cities and metal working.

They were Chalcolithic at best, almost all of their tools were made from stone.

They fucked chcildren?

[lustindarkness]

I stumbled upon a wiki article on the Pyramid of Cholula recently, read like 10 other linked articles on the Aztecs.

[jimmy olsen]

The shared "Meso" doesn't mean the civilizations share stuff on some deeper level. Differences between things thousands of years and thousands of miles apart are perfectly normal.

They were Chalcolithic at best, almost all of their tools were made from stone.

They fucked chcildren?

Your responses are always the best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic

[alfred russel]

This really comes down to definitions of "advanced", but unless those are dependant on degrees of urbanization, I think it is tough to argue for mesoamerica. Mesoamerica lacked the wheel and most animal husbandry. The writing system of Mesopotamia seems to have developed from practical applications in basic accounting, but in Mesoamerica was mostly ceremonial and not so applicable to everyday use.

[jimmy olsen]

This really comes down to definitions of "advanced", but unless those are dependant on degrees of urbanization, I think it is tough to argue for mesoamerica. Mesoamerica lacked the wheel and most animal husbandry. The writing system of Mesopotamia seems to have developed from practical applications in basic accounting, but in Mesoamerica was mostly ceremonial and not so applicable to everyday use.

Mesoamerica didn't have any convenient animals to domesticate. One can hardly penalize them for that. Not surprising they didn't use the wheel for anything other than toys without draft animals.

It is my understanding that the Aztecs and Maya had plenty of written records, but the Spanish burned them all, leaving the impression that they just wrote in ceremonial stone.

[Valmy]

It is my understanding that the Aztecs and Maya had plenty of written records, but the Spanish burned them all, leaving the impression that they just wrote in ceremonial stone.

Really?  They burned them all?  Not one single record of any sort survived?  That is some impressive efficiency by the Spanish.  Surely we have some.

[Razgovory]

The Aztecs and Mayan really weren't "Neolithic".  They had stone cities and metal working.

They were Chalcolithic at best, almost all of their tools were made from stone.

The 3 age system doesn't really work that well in Meso-America, and really isn't used.  Most tools in Ancient Sumer were also stone (or clay).  They were technology on par with the ancient Egyptians.  They had planned urban areas, mathematics, writing, calenders, metal-working, etc.

[Razgovory]

It is my understanding that the Aztecs and Maya had plenty of written records, but the Spanish burned them all, leaving the impression that they just wrote in ceremonial stone.

Really?  They burned them all?  Not one single record of any sort survived?  That is some impressive efficiency by the Spanish.  Surely we have some.

Not quite all, but very, very close.

[lustindarkness]

The crystal skull aliens destroyed those written records.