Pannetta: US Navy shift to Asia doesn't have shit to do with China; China ROR's

[Monoriu]

I think that reading's a bit naive Kolytsin.

The Chinese approach around 2008-11 was an enormous unforced strategic error I think.  It un-nerved the region, pushed countries closer to the US and made the US commit a lot more attention to the Pacific.

I don't think it is unforced.  The population demands it.  The official Chinese stance is actually a lot softer than the nationalist feelings on the street. 

[CountDeMoney]

The official Chinese stance is actually a lot softer than the nationalist feelings on the street.

You're not selling anybody on that except the weenie Sinopologists, you know.  Your little disinformation program may work on other forums, but not here, big guy.  Or, should I say...comrade. 

[Camerus]

No, I believe it's true, I'm afraid.  And it's actually pretty damn scary to think the PRC government is actually way more moderate and modern than large swaths of the population. 

[Razgovory]

I think that reading's a bit naive Kolytsin.

The Chinese approach around 2008-11 was an enormous unforced strategic error I think.  It un-nerved the region, pushed countries closer to the US and made the US commit a lot more attention to the Pacific.

I don't think it is unforced.  The population demands it.  The official Chinese stance is actually a lot softer than the nationalist feelings on the street.

The population demands it because the government finds it useful to gin up support for it on occasion.  Otherwise who would care about some coral reefs off the coast of the Philippines or Vietnam?

[CountDeMoney]

Otherwise who would care about some coral reefs off the coast of the Philippines or Vietnam?

Because there has been a fundamental revolution in thinking with the PLA, particularly with the conventional use of modern sea power projection.  Remember Mahan?  Well, he's seeing a renaissance in the PLAN to a degree not seen since the 1890's.  The Chinese have been sucking that shit up.

[Monoriu]

The population demands it because the government finds it useful to gin up support for it on occasion.  Otherwise who would care about some coral reefs off the coast of the Philippines or Vietnam?

It wasn't that long ago that China was colonised, carved up, invaded (and unable to fight back, unlike the Soviets), and its population slaughtered by foreign troops. 

The "never again" and "not a step back" attitude is strong.  This is particularly true in the case of the dispute with Japan over some island. 

[Razgovory]

Otherwise who would care about some coral reefs off the coast of the Philippines or Vietnam?

Because there has been a fundamental revolution in thinking with the PLA, particularly with the conventional use of modern sea power projection.  Remember Mahan?  Well, he's seeing a renaissance in the PLAN to a degree not seen since the 1890's.  The Chinese have been sucking that shit up.

If they really want to build dreadnaughts, I say let them.

[Razgovory]

The population demands it because the government finds it useful to gin up support for it on occasion.  Otherwise who would care about some coral reefs off the coast of the Philippines or Vietnam?

It wasn't that long ago that China was colonised, carved up, invaded (and unable to fight back, unlike the Soviets), and its population slaughtered by foreign troops. 

The "never again" and "not a step back" attitude is strong.  This is particularly true in the case of the dispute with Japan over some island.

I suppose they are showing admirable restraint in not just claiming Vietnam and the Philippines.  Still it's like Russia claiming Dogger Bank because they have strong evidence that a Russian sailor might have once took a shit there.

[grumbler]

It wasn't that long ago that China was colonised, carved up, invaded (and unable to fight back, unlike the Soviets), and its population slaughtered by foreign troops. 

The "never again" and "not a step back" attitude is strong.  This is particularly true in the case of the dispute with Japan over some island.

Where does this attitude come from?  Surely the media and school system have a part.  Who controls the media and school system?  The same people you claim are victims of this attitude.

I agree that the attitude exists.  I don't buy that the government is just giving in to it.  Particularly when it comes to claims from Chinese officials that amount to nothing more than the colonialism they themselves decry.

[Jacob]

The official Chinese stance is actually a lot softer than the nationalist feelings on the street.

You're not selling anybody on that except the weenie Sinopologists, you know.  Your little disinformation program may work on other forums, but not here, big guy.  Or, should I say...comrade. 

You're plain old wrong about that, CountDeMoney. If you go to China you'll find plenty of people who have exactly the same opinion about their country's place in the world and the correctness of projecting power as you do, except their country is China not the US.

[garbon]

No, I believe it's true, I'm afraid.  And it's actually pretty damn scary to think the PRC government is actually way more moderate and modern than large swaths of the population. 

The modern bit doesn't seem surprising.

[CountDeMoney]

If you go to China you'll find plenty of people who have exactly the same opinion about their country's place in the world and the correctness of projecting power as you do, except their country is China not the US.

Which is why they're wrong,

[Jacob]

Which is why they're wrong,

Quite possibly, but being wrong is different from not existing which is what I thought you were alleging previously.

[CountDeMoney]

Which is why they're wrong,

Quite possibly, but being wrong is different from not existing which is what I thought you were alleging previously.

Please don't make me itemize my Sino hate.

[Jacob]

Please don't make me itemize my Sino hate.

I'm just trying to keep you grounded in reality