"Capitalists = Job Creators" is Completely Wrong

Started by Jacob, May 22, 2012, 05:14:02 PM

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Valmy

#15
May 22, 2012, 10:46:53 PM Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 10:51:43 PM by Valmy
This seems sort of like a chicken and egg debate.  I mean you sorta need both supply and demand for the thing to work right?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Ideologue

#16
May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Valmy

#17
May 22, 2012, 11:03:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.

It can with proper marketing ;)
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Habbaku

#18
May 22, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.

My infinite demand for a time-machine has yet to furnish the product.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

katmai

#19
May 22, 2012, 11:10:14 PM
Demand harder!
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

Ideologue

#20
May 22, 2012, 11:15:24 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 22, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.

My infinite demand for a time-machine has yet to furnish the product.

Yeah?  Where's your infinite money? :angry:
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Syt

#21
May 22, 2012, 11:21:00 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2012, 11:03:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.

It can with proper marketing ;)

Indeed. People didn't go out there and yelled, "Someone invent the lightbulb/car/iPad because our lives feel empty without them."

However, for every successfull new product introduced there's countless others that fail.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

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Ideologue

#22
May 22, 2012, 11:29:01 PM
Demand isn't for specific products, it's for what tasks products perform; in the instances you noted, for light, transportation, communication/entertainment/conspicuous consumption/Apple faggotry.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Razgovory

#23
May 22, 2012, 11:55:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2012, 11:03:29 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.

It can with proper marketing ;)

Then you get a public with lots of debt, like we have now.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#24
May 23, 2012, 12:47:02 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 22, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 22, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Demand will create supply.  Supply does not necessarily create demand.

My infinite demand for a time-machine has yet to furnish the product.

If you want to invest capital in a time travel company be my guest.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Habbaku

#25
May 23, 2012, 01:16:52 AM
Why would I do that?
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Martinus

#26
May 23, 2012, 01:20:33 AM
Quote from: Jacob on May 22, 2012, 05:14:02 PMJobs are created by middle class consumers.

The problem with this approach is that most middle class people are employed by someone else rather than running their own businesses. So in order for them to even become consumers, they need their jobs - and that can be provided either by the government or by capital(ists).

Martinus

#27
May 23, 2012, 01:22:34 AM Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 01:24:06 AM by Martinus
And also, isn't the whole "demand creates jobs" approach simply a reiteration of the trickle-down economy concept and as such should be anathema to any leftist?

Ideologue

#28
May 23, 2012, 01:24:32 AM
I don't see how the arguments are similar at all.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Martinus

#29
May 23, 2012, 01:26:30 AM Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 01:29:56 AM by Martinus
Well, don't they both argue that consumers create jobs by spending money on goods produced by others? Doesn't the trickle down economy theory argue that if we leave more money with the rich, they will consume more and their consumption will create jobs for a yoga teacher, a chauffeur, a masseuse, a yacht maker etc.?

This is the opposite of the theory that capitalists create jobs - i.e. that investing the capital should be encouraged whereas consumption side of the economy is not as efficient in creating jobs - this "middle class consumers" theory is simply trickle down economy reiterated, only you think more of it trickles down from a slightly lower level.
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