Languish's church attendence

[CountDeMoney]

It just occured to me that religion may be God's ultimate test.  If you manage to resist indoctrination and realize that atheism is the one true answer, you passed God's test, and you go to Heaven.

Your like the 20,000th guy to suggest that.

Burn in hell, you godless freak. 

Sorry

You're like the 20,000th guy to suggest that.

[DGuller]

Don't take it personally, I was just having a second go at trying to come up with something original.

The thing is that every argument for and against the existence of god apart from the watchmaker argument was fully developed by 270 BC and the watchmaker argument died in 1859.

I guess in light of that, being the 20,000th guy isn't so bad.

[Razgovory]

I wonder what they called the watchmaker article before there were watches.

[Valmy]

The thing is that every argument for and against the existence of god apart from the watchmaker argument was fully developed by 270 BC and the watchmaker argument died in 1859.

The Unification of Italy proved that no higher power could possibly have put the Universe in motion?

[Viking]

I wonder what they called the watchmaker article before there were watches.

Argument from design

[Razgovory]

Why are you guys encouraging Viking here?  It's like discussing how bad Israel is with Slargos.

Yeah he really has no sense of humor about this stuff does he?

Neither does anybody else for that matter. I have been jaded by too many poes on this topic, so I treat them all as serious if they post sans emoticons.

No, you're simply hateful.  You've been jaded because your hatred makes you say stupid things and then you get called on it.

[Viking]

The thing is that every argument for and against the existence of god apart from the watchmaker argument was fully developed by 270 BC and the watchmaker argument died in 1859.

The Unification of Italy proved that no higher power could possibly have put the Universe in motion?

The publication of On the Origin of Species

Edit: Also that no rational higher power would ever permit Italy to reform

[Valmy]

The publication of On the Origin of Species

Why couldn't one say that is part of the mechanism?

[CountDeMoney]

I wonder what they called the watchmaker article before there were watches.

I believe Aristotle called it the unmoved first mover.

[Viking]

The publication of On the Origin of Species

Why couldn't one say that is part of the mechanism?

Yes you can say that. Shooting down the argument from design doesn't disprove god, it merely conclusively removed it as an argument for the existence of god. Basically before 1859 you could argue that the giraffes neck was proof of gods existence because it must have been designed by a mind. Darwin showed that you don't need to get a designer to get diversity of species. 

[DGuller]

The publication of On the Origin of Species

Why couldn't one say that is part of the mechanism?

Why couldn't one say that everything is part of the mechanism or test of faith, including the things Bible and religion got wrong?  The problem is that you can't disprove this argument ever.

[Razgovory]

The publication of On the Origin of Species

Why couldn't one say that is part of the mechanism?

I always thought the fixation on Evolution was strange.  Why not geology, or linguistics or history?

[Valmy]

Yes you can say that. Shooting down the argument from design doesn't disprove god, it merely conclusively removed it as an argument for the existence of god. Basically before 1859 you could argue that the giraffes neck was proof of gods existence because it must have been designed by a mind. Darwin showed that you don't need to get a designer to get diversity of species. 

Ah ok.  That does make sense.  That specific angle on it anyway.

[Valmy]

Why couldn't one say that everything is part of the mechanism or test of faith, including the things Bible and religion got wrong?  The problem is that you can't disprove this argument ever.

Well if you accept a specific construct for the universe you have to do this.  By definition everything the universe contains must be consistent somehow with what your believe.

But I was specifically referring to the watchmaker idea and how the Origin of Species disproved it.

[Viking]

Yes you can say that. Shooting down the argument from design doesn't disprove god, it merely conclusively removed it as an argument for the existence of god. Basically before 1859 you could argue that the giraffes neck was proof of gods existence because it must have been designed by a mind. Darwin showed that you don't need to get a designer to get diversity of species. 

Ah ok.  That does make sense.  That specific angle on it anyway.

To be honest before 1859 you could not be an honest well informed rational atheist because of the design argument.

Edit: This is why evolution is the biggie for the creationists if you disprove evolution then they think they can return to the design argument.