UN official: US must return control of sacred lands to Native Americans

[Razgovory]

They already own it.  They're American citizens.

[Ed Anger]

I like the way the Indian tribes were treated here in Ohio. BITCH, GTFO. NO YOU CAN'T COME BACK AND BUILD CASINOS.

I piss on Tecumseh's birthplace.

[PDH]

The US courts ruled in the 70s that the Black Hills were illegally taken, and while there was no attempt (other than monetary compensation) to right this, the seizure of the region has been ruled on by the Supreme Court.

I worked for a time as a consultant with sacred lands in the Powder River Basin.  Ten years ago there was a huge boom in gas wells there, and the government had to do land surveys in order to guarantee that no sacred lands were disturbed.  While I was doing my research (and finding that quite a bit was not sacred in a way to block drilling), the BLM handed out 10,000 drilling permits - later deemed illegal, but oh well - and the lands were divided up.  As you might guess, I was basically out of job as my contacts would no longer talk with me.

There is a reason, in part, why there is so much reticence to allowing permits for such things among tribes.

[PDH]

Oh, and for the record...the UN involvement with the Lakota dates back to the 1980 ruling that the Black Hills were illegally taken.

[Admiral Yi]

Oh, and for the record...the UN involvement with the Lakota dates back to the 1980 ruling that the Black Hills were illegally taken.

What was the basis?  Signed under duress?  Not signed by a representative group?

[PDH]

I think it was illegal seizure (5th Amendment?).

[Martinus]

Typical of PDH to just barge in and rain facts on everyone else's parade. 

[Brezel]

It's hard to argue with Anaya. He wrote the book on indigenous peoples' rights. In Norway the question of remedying the dispossession of lands, resources and territories of the sami people has been partially solved by particular legislature. In the northernmost county of Finnmark land formerly owned by the State forest administration was passed to a new company created by a statute. Board of the company has members appointed by both the sami and the county boards of representatives. The law also regulates fishing and hunting in the area concerned.

[Valmy]

The US courts ruled in the 70s that the Black Hills were illegally taken, and while there was no attempt (other than monetary compensation) to right this, the seizure of the region has been ruled on by the Supreme Court.

I worked for a time as a consultant with sacred lands in the Powder River Basin.  Ten years ago there was a huge boom in gas wells there, and the government had to do land surveys in order to guarantee that no sacred lands were disturbed.  While I was doing my research (and finding that quite a bit was not sacred in a way to block drilling), the BLM handed out 10,000 drilling permits - later deemed illegal, but oh well - and the lands were divided up.  As you might guess, I was basically out of job as my contacts would no longer talk with me.

There is a reason, in part, why there is so much reticence to allowing permits for such things among tribes.

Wait so they went ahead and divided the land before the required land surveys had happened?  And who is the BLM?

[Razgovory]

I have a question:  Why is one group of people more "native" or "indigenous" then another?  I mean, I was born in this country, as was my father and his father before him.

[Valmy]

I have a question:  Why is one group of people more "native" or "indigenous" then another?  I mean, I was born in this country, as was my father and his father before him.

And here you have the reason nationalism and all that is so dangerous.  Why indeed?  Fortunately not a dangerous question in the US since the native American types are rather reasonable people.

[Brezel]

I have a question:  Why is one group of people more "native" or "indigenous" then another?  I mean, I was born in this country, as was my father and his father before him.

Martinez Cobo is the author of the unofficial definition that is said to have great practical meaning when indigenous peoples are defined. You can see more here

http://www.humanrights.is/the-human-rights-project/humanrightscasesandmaterials/humanrightsconceptsideasandfora/Undirflokkur/indigenouspeoples/

It is the link to pre-colonization era, non-dominance in relation to other populations and distinct culture and the will to maintain the way of life that are relevant factors.

[Admiral Yi]

And who is the BLM?

Bureau of Land Management.

[Viking]

It's hard to argue with Anaya. He wrote the book on indigenous peoples' rights. In Norway the question of remedying the dispossession of lands, resources and territories of the sami people has been partially solved by particular legislature. In the northernmost county of Finnmark land formerly owned by the State forest administration was passed to a new company created by a statute. Board of the company has members appointed by both the sami and the county boards of representatives. The law also regulates fishing and hunting in the area concerned.

It's easy to argue with Anaya. He's a Yavapai Indian from New Mexico from a tribe with 200 members, two casinos and a hotel.

His arguments are basically because of a history of oppression, imperialism, racism etc.etc. and them getting access to their special priveleges is disrupted by oppresive laws and regulations. I just don't think that problems caused by segregation from society will be solved by creating more segregation.

[Brezel]

His arguments are basically because of a history of oppression, imperialism, racism etc.etc. and them getting access to their special priveleges is disrupted by oppresive laws and regulations. I just don't think that problems caused by segregation from society will be solved by creating more segregation.

The argument is that the history of oppression should lead to a remedy in the world today. The special privileges they claim are therefore grounded in rights that pre-existed the "western" civilizations.