So, when *did* World War II start?

[Norgy]

If he'd arched his back a bit, the archduke might not have been hit by my old pal Gavrilo Princip.

[crazy canuck]

That's what I call normal sized

[Valmy]

That's what I call normal sized

 

[grumbler]

Except that is my argument.  The Japanese conflict did not become part of the "world war" until Japan attacked GB and the US. Sheilbh is making an argument that World War II can be said to have begun before 1939 in Asia which is entirely dependent on that occuring.

Also, the "near total embargo" by the US did not occur until 1941.

It is all hindsight.

But my argument is not your argument. You are arguing from the perspective of a Canadian, for whom the Japanese conflict did not seem significant until after Dec 7.  My argument is that, as far as the Japanese are concerned, the war did start in 1937 and the attacks on the Allies (especially France and the UK) were just a continu=ation of that war.

And yes, the "near total embargo" didn't occur until 1941. That is, not coincidentally, also the year the Japanese openly attacked the Allies.

"When WW2 began" is a matter of perspective, not history.

[Valmy]

Is history not a matter of perspective?

I don't dispute a war started in 1937.

[grumbler]

Is history not a matter of perspective?

I don't dispute a war started in 1937.

Interpretations of history are always a matter of perspective.  History itself isn't (i.e. what happened happened, even if we don't know it happened or think that something else happened).

Whether WW2 was actually a world war or two regional wars is a matter of perspective.  That Japan sank HMS Repulse on Dec 10, 1941 is not.

[Valmy]

Is history not a matter of perspective?

I don't dispute a war started in 1937.

Interpretations of history are always a matter of perspective.  History itself isn't (i.e. what happened happened, even if we don't know it happened or think that something else happened).

Whether WW2 was actually a world war or two regional wars is a matter of perspective.  That Japan sank HMS Repulse on Dec 10, 1941 is not.

True. World War 2 itself is not a historical event in the same sense that the UK declared War on Germany on 3 September 1939.

[crazy canuck]

Except that is my argument.  The Japanese conflict did not become part of the "world war" until Japan attacked GB and the US. Sheilbh is making an argument that World War II can be said to have begun before 1939 in Asia which is entirely dependent on that occuring.

Also, the "near total embargo" by the US did not occur until 1941.

It is all hindsight.

But my argument is not your argument.

Exactly, you were just agreeing with Sheilbh 

[grumbler]

Exactly, you were just agreeing with Sheilbh 

That you would think that just tells everyone that you didn't actually comprehend what I wrote.  That's a common occurrence here that I am okay with.