ALBERTA: Provincial Elections!

[crazy canuck]

I don't really think that holds up in Alberta.  I think you can put the election result up to premeditation by Redford and her cabal.  She's moving the governing party from centre-right more to the left.  That's what she's been talking about ever since she kowtowed to the teachers union to win the leadership, and it turned out she was right.  She dumped the right-wing elements of the party and moved enough to the centre to devour 2/3rds of the Liberal vote.  The popular vote statistics are really interesting.

My impression is that the election was Wildroses' to lose, rather than the result of clever manuvers by the Conservatives. Allegedly, from the start the Conservatives were on the defensive - it was only with the vacuous antics of various Wildrose candidates that the situation reversed for them.

I dont think anyone should underestimate the damage done to Wild Rose when they replaced original picture from the side of the bus.

[Malthus]

I don't really think that holds up in Alberta.  I think you can put the election result up to premeditation by Redford and her cabal.  She's moving the governing party from centre-right more to the left.  That's what she's been talking about ever since she kowtowed to the teachers union to win the leadership, and it turned out she was right.  She dumped the right-wing elements of the party and moved enough to the centre to devour 2/3rds of the Liberal vote.  The popular vote statistics are really interesting.

My impression is that the election was Wildroses' to lose, rather than the result of clever manuvers by the Conservatives. Allegedly, from the start the Conservatives were on the defensive - it was only with the vacuous antics of various Wildrose candidates that the situation reversed for them.

I dont think anyone should underestimate the damage done to Wild Rose when they replaced original picture from the side of the bus.

The turning point of the campagn - identified!

[Oexmelin]

It isn't that Canadians are socially liberal, necessarily. Many Canadians echo BB's interests in conservatism of the respect-for-community type. It is just that they have no desire to bring US style ranting and raving about these issues north of the border, no matter what their own private views may be. 

I think this is key, but also only half-true. The last years have seen, on the right at least, an "Americanization" of the terms of debate and political culture; it is precisely because "US style raving and ranting" is already here that one can peg social conservatism as interested mainly in a replication of the old culture wars of the US. Conversely, while Harper has done his best to throw a bone from time to time to those of his base who subscribe to such, he is also a clear participant of the same Americanization, by blatantly imitating Rovian tactics, and getting a good number of his cues from Republican politicking. Which one is a by-product of the other, I am not sure - or perhaps they simply walk hand-in-hand.

[Neil]

'Imitating Rovian tactics'?  Harper never intimated that Ignatieff had illegitimate black babies.

[crazy canuck]

It isn't that Canadians are socially liberal, necessarily. Many Canadians echo BB's interests in conservatism of the respect-for-community type. It is just that they have no desire to bring US style ranting and raving about these issues north of the border, no matter what their own private views may be. 

I think this is key, but also only half-true. The last years have seen, on the right at least, an "Americanization" of the terms of debate and political culture; it is precisely because "US style raving and ranting" is already here that one can peg social conservatism as interested mainly in a replication of the old culture wars of the US. Conversely, while Harper has done his best to throw a bone from time to time to those of his base who subscribe to such, he is also a clear participant of the same Americanization, by blatantly imitating Rovian tactics, and getting a good number of his cues from Republican politicking. Which one is a by-product of the other, I am not sure - or perhaps they simply walk hand-in-hand.

You are very much overstating your case.  We are nowhere near the kind of politics there are in the US.  We dont have any political party or any leader (or would be leader for that matter) advocating for denying a woman's right to abortion, questioning evolution (at least now that Stockwell Day is out of politics) or taking the position that gays should have no rights.

Those issues are settled in Canada.

[crazy canuck]

'Imitating Rovian tactics'?  Harper never intimated that Ignatieff had illegitimate black babies.

Although the Liberals tried to paint Harper as a sinister figure who would eliminate abortion rights and put armed troops in Canadian streets.  Remember that Oex?

[Barrister]

Would Wildrose ever try to go national?  If not, why not?

No.  Too closely aligned with the Conservatives.

[Oexmelin]

You are very much overstating your case.  We are nowhere near the kind of politics there are in the US.

Perhaps. I did not write that we are clones of US political style, but there has been a definite - albeit perhaps more limited than I make it to be - import of language, tactics and practices, even if not strictly limited to the old American culture wars. Smear tactics are much more aggressive they used to be, negative advertising is more and more prevalent.  The PM's "spokesperson", the dividing up of ridings and "electoral clienteles" are other examples of what I think is clearly an American import. These are but example of rhetorical "cues" and tactices that one can, and should, get inspiration from whatever happens south of the border. This is what I meant - that by following models south of the border, the Conservative party is also showing, even if indirectly and unadvenrtantly, to the more radical members of its own party, similar models to follow.

That being said, I agree with you it is nowhere near the level of what we see in the US.

It doesn't have to be word-for-word import of discourses.

[crazy canuck]

Yes, that is exactly what I mean by you overstating the first time, particularly when you said - "one can peg social conservatism as interested mainly in a replication of the old culture wars of the US".

As Malthus has already pointed out - there are many people in Canada who may be social conservative - Harper being one - that has no interest at all in "replicating" the "the old cutlure wars of the US"


To what you have now said, I find it intersting that you place blame on only on party in Canada.  You must have seen all the attack adds from the left.  What do you say about those?

[Oexmelin]

Although the Liberals tried to paint Harper as a sinister figure who would eliminate abortion rights and put armed troops in Canadian streets.  Remember that Oex?

I didn't until you brought it back - simply because Quebec is its own different electoral market (can't even remember if I saw in French or in English). But I can't remember the Libs using the same tactics against, say, the Bloc, until we started seeing a more overall aggressive electoral market; before, it used to be the same crappy, sugary-sweet "leader-walking-in-a-summer-field-with-children".

But the one that stroke me was the character assassination of Stéphane Dion while there was no electoral campaign. Or the more recent one against Thomas Mulcair.

[Malthus]

; before, it used to be the same crappy, sugary-sweet "leader-walking-in-a-summer-field-with-children".

The best was the ads featuring Harper wearing a sweater to humanize him - just a loveable, down-home kinda guy, right? 

http://thingsharperdoestoseemhuman.tumblr.com/post/4218297066/wearing-sweater-vests

[Oexmelin]

Yes, that is exactly what I mean by you overstating the first time, particularly when you said - "one can peg social conservatism as interested mainly in a replication of the old culture wars of the US".

But you were the one saying that, for you, social conservatism was just a bunch of intolerant people interested in curtailing gay rights and the like !

If, for you, and before we started having this conversation, that was all that social conservatism was about, it might be because these admitedly minority groups have at least have some form of success in taking over the image of social conservatism, no?

To what you have now said, I find it intersting that you place blame on only on party in Canada.  You must have seen all the attack adds from the left.  What do you say about those?

No, I haven't. I was in France last year. I am now in the US. I am more exposed to webads, and the Conservatives are much, much more effective on that front than any other party. I have the good fortune to being exposed to all the American rubbish though.   

That being said, I find it somewhat reasonable assessment that I can ascribe this to a party which has explicitely taken its cues from American political campaigning (I mean: Flanagan makes no secret of it all) as opposed to the incredibly naive, pisspoor campaigns of the Liberals of times past. Again, the Bloc had a different model anyway, until it tried desperately to play the ABC (anything-but-conservatives card).

[Valmy]

I have the good fortune to being exposed to all the American rubbish though.   

Hey least you get to go back to Canada someday.  Some of us live here and get to enjoy this our entire lives.

[crazy canuck]

I have the good fortune to being exposed to all the American rubbish though.   

How do you immunize yourself?

[Oexmelin]

 I rant on Languish